None of us are working hard enough

[henryrobinett]

lpuma - Have you ever gone to a serious music school? I mean a serious one. Julliard, Eastman, what have you. These schools are full of brilliant students, most of whom will never have a performing career, or no career at all in music. But 75% of all the kids started as some kind of prodigy. Almost ALL started playing music extremely young. Students with injuries are extremely rare. And that's only because they did something stupid, like all students are bound to do from time to time.

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I have dealt with jealousy from both sides of the wall. It exists, and pretending that it doesn't because it is socially unacceptable to talk about it is re . . .

Safe? I don't know where this idea comes from about it not being SAFE. There are thousands of examples of very, very, very young children playing music, and some of it hard music, on all kinds of instruments, and as was said earlier, more difficult that this.

And who in the hell needs to talk to a pediatrician? As if they have all the answers anyway. Hell, one's bound to tell you to never go outside without being bundled up in a mattress like coat.

There's this idea, that I don't hold, that there are experts and I am not one of them, so I have to defer my every move to the said "experts." Well an "expert" might have insisted that there be no Mozart, Beehthoven, Prokofiev, Heifiz, Paco. Hell, Bireli Lagrene was playing concerts doing ridiculously difficult and fast Django music on thick acoustic strings all over Europe about the same age as this girl, maybe younger, and he's STILL playing his ass off. A pediatrician today would probably prescribe ritalin or prosaic for the kid to get rid of this "obsessive/compulsive disorder", for having to play the guitar all the time! That's ludicrous. Pediatricians know nothing about the arts, as a rule.

Some people are bound for greatness and I think some children know it. Greatness often dictates hard work beginning at a very young age. Olympic gymnasts, start YOUNG and go away to camps for extended periods. I don't know anyone who would call that torture. Not easy, true. I don't know that it's bad for athletes to start young. I don't know any other way, if you're going to be in the NBA, or NFL, or the Olympics. If you want to be great, you gotta start young and get your body growing into it.

And most kids know this innately. I panicked about the age of 8, until I found my instrument at 13, because I knew I had blown it. My mom didn't care. She didn't want me to be a musician. But I knew I had to have started at around 6. I don't know HOW I knew this, but I did.

So I'd stop worrying about the little girl. I think she's fine and I don't think her life is tragic. Quite the contrary. Look at all the attention and love she's getting! She's doing something far more valuable than you can imagine and she knows it, I'm sure.

Henry we are talking about different things: I never said jealousy dont exist, I'm saying that you implied that we are jealous for worrying for the consequences of playing guitar like that so young, sorry but it have nothing to do with being jealous.

Now you said you started playing music at 6, that's fine. But she obviousely started younger and trained intensively too.

Now about the fact you didnt knew that practicing too much sports too young is VERY BAD, well do a search about it, I will not explain it in details here but it's a proven fact, again read about it.

And no I never been to any music school.

[MMski]

Vice Guide to North Korea 1 of 3 - The Vice Guide to Travel | VBS.TV

This is North Korea. That girl is a slave to her government, and honestly, I'm disgusted rather than shocked by how good she is.

[PoorGlory]

It's not even remotely about jealousy. There are plenty of guitarists better than I. I went to college for classical guitar and I'm still not a great classical player. I've seen other young kids who can play circles around me, and that's great.

This is something different. She doesn't look very happy in that video, does she?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by lpuma

Henry we are talking about different things: I never said jealousy dont exist, I'm saying that you implied that we are jealous for worrying for the consequences of playing guitar like that so young, sorry but it have nothing to do with being jealous.

Now you said you started playing music at 6, that's fine. But she obviousely started younger and trained intensively too.

Now about the fact you didnt knew that practicing too much sports too young is VERY BAD, well do a search about it, I will not explain it in details here but it's a proven fact, again read about it.

And no I never been to any music school.

Oh no! It is NOT a proven fact at ALL!!! How can you even say "a proven fact?" Proven to who and BY whom? PROVEN????? Hogwash.

Also you're skimming, like I do, and not reading carefully. I never said I started playing at 6. I have repeatedly stated that I did NOT start playing until well after 6.

[henryrobinett]

She looks happy enough to me. How can you tell?

Many of you are projecting what you know about N. Korea on to a little 3 minute video of a child prodigy. Pretty shoddy detective work. This is what I said in my first or second post already. You're proving me correct.

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Oh no! It is NOT a proven fact at ALL!!! How can you even say "a proven fact?" Proven to who and BY whom? PROVEN????? Hogwash.
.

... you obviousely have no (****ing) idea... I'm done with arguing with you...

[henryrobinett]

OK, I just saw the video again. She's smiling throughout most of it. You have to be projecting some pretty bitter preconceived ideas to come up with the idea that she's unhappy. I mean you can't tell by watching that.

If I were going to come up with conclusions about something I have to SEE it, and remove my preconceived ideas about it first. I just don't SEE it. I'm not saying it's not true, but I don't see it. I can get the idea that that might be true, but it's not there. She could be nervous or she could be a little girl or she could have been trained about stage performance, or she could have been given the waterboard treatment, shunned, put in solitary confinement, beat and stabbed if she didn't perform up to the task. But none of that's in the video and those assuming it is based on whatever are working off prejudiced ideas.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by lpuma

... you obviousely have no (****ing) idea... I'm done with arguing with you...

Well you have told me absolutely nothing. You're saying that Tiger, Jordan, Aggasi, Federer, Nadia, Olga, have been irreversibly damaged physically from starting out young. Sorry man. Maybe you don't have athletes in your family.

It sounds like you're "done with me" because you have no evidence to back up your claim. Iv'e heard the odd ball saying stuff like this. But PROOF??? PROOF? How you going to state something like that with so much contrary evidence? It's sounds like some kind of psych bullshit to me.

[gregory]

This kid is a musician, as she feels the music. It is obvious in her face, body, and by the emotive nature of her performance. That cannot be forced or coerced- by North Koreans or anyone else. Treat your own kids as you see fit, but there are millions of things to worry about before a child excercising mind and body with art.

[Nahuel]

nah, you insist, I explain. English is not my native language, the topic is too technical, I dont have the vocabulary. Here is an example of disease caused by too much sports as a child: Osgood-Schlatter Disease: A Cause of Knee Pain in Children -- familydoctor.org ... If you want to learn more do a seach you'll find plenty of information or simply ask a doctor.

Ok, so yea since you seem to ignore that kind of basic information you are the last dude I'd trust about the non dangerosity of what I've seen in that vid, I might be wrong about suspecting it's dangerous but I need the opinion of several sepecialist to beleive it's safe.

I hope I clarified. Peace.

[henryrobinett]

That's funny. I wrote a song called Osgood's Slaughter, obliquely about that disease.

Well you shouldn't take ANYTHING anyone says ever as gospel. But there are things that should make you think.

My evidence is teaching students for most of my life how to practice hard without injury. AND from seeing first hand prodigies who started quite young. No injuries. So the question would be where did this data come from regarding young musicians not being SAFE to play an instrument. Where did that even come from?

[toneguru]

Its silly to jump to the conclusion that this child must hate its life.

I know of a young chess prodigy that simply loves the game at the age of 5 and it becomes a true passion.

How old was YoYo Ma when he started playing?

[creegstor]

This is only a step away from 'Toddlers and Tiaras' where they smile all the way through too. Absolutely wrong. No two ways, no exceptions, no nothing. Wrong. Period.

And seeing as you brought him up, maybe you need to do some reading on Andre Agassi, Henry. He was incredibly damaged by his tennis upbringing and he'd give it all up to have his childhood back.

Choosing to practise your ass off at 13 is one thing. Doing what she is at eight can only mean she has 10,000 hours or more of practice under her belt coz that's what it takes. NO CHILD DOES THAT AMOUNT OF PRACTICE NATURALLY AT THAT AGE.

Let me repeat that...

NO CHILD DOES THAT AMOUNT OF PRACTICE NATURALLY AT THAT AGE.

That's about 8 hours practice every day for five years. It's enforced labor on a minor and it's disgusting.

[Dean Roddey]

Well, to be fair, no child would 'naturally' go to school at 6 either. We force them to spend 5 or 6 hours a day doing something they wouldn't ever naturally do.

[henryrobinett]

Agassi was not damage physically or emotionally. He had a rebellious period where he did resent missing out on some of his childhood. But I'm sorry damaged? Serious damage? And nothing physical about it. He grew up to value the game and be thankful he had the opportunity to play at the level he did. Without that early training, it would not have been possible.

Originally Posted by creegstor

This is only a step away from 'Toddlers and Tiaras' where they smile all the way through too. Absolutely wrong. No two ways, no exceptions, no nothing. Wrong. Period.

And seeing as you brought him up, maybe you need to do some reading on Andre Agassi, Henry. He was incredibly damaged by his tennis upbringing and he'd give it all up to have his childhood back.

Choosing to practise your ass off at 13 is one thing. Doing what she is at eight can only mean she has 10,000 hours or more of practice under her belt coz that's what it takes. NO CHILD DOES THAT AMOUNT OF PRACTICE NATURALLY AT THAT AGE.

Let me repeat that...

NO CHILD DOES THAT AMOUNT OF PRACTICE NATURALLY AT THAT AGE.

That's about 8 hours practice every day for five years. It's enforced labor on a minor and it's disgusting.

[henryrobinett]

There's a price for everything. Greatness comes with a price. I don't care what repressive state you live in, you cannot force any child to do anything, especially in the arts, h/she doesn't want to do

[henryrobinett]

There are plenty of examples of children who do practice fir long stretches. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean prodigies don't exist!

[faramita]

Henry is the only guy here who makes sense.
Argument about sports over-training is pure bull.
Just look at some of the gymnasts. Just one example Nadia Comaneci youngest ever to get golds in Olympics, first to get clean 10s, trained 8 hours a day since she was 6. At the age of 40 I saw her doing double back-tack dismount from beam.
Eat your heart out Mr. "danger in over-training". And there are many, many examples like that, they are just not necessarily as famous.

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Agassi was not damage physically or emotionally. He had a rebellious period where he did resent missing out on some of his childhood. But I'm sorry damaged? Serious damage? And nothing physical about it. He grew up to value the game and be thankful he had the opportunity to play at the level he did. Without that early training, it would not have been possible.

You obviously have never actually listened to a word Agassi has had to say on the subject I guess because it doesn't jibe with your received wisdom. I saw an interview with him only recently on this exact subject. He says explicitly he hated it, he was miserable, he resents it to this day and would do anything to have his childhood back. He feels incredibly emotionally damaged and more than that violated by his own parents.

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Well, to be fair, no child would 'naturally' go to school at 6 either. We force them to spend 5 or 6 hours a day doing something they wouldn't ever naturally do.

Which is part of why school is a terrible idea but that's beyond the scope of this discussion I think!

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by creegstor

You obviously have never actually listened to a word Agassi has had to say on the subject I guess because it doesn't jibe with your received wisdom. I saw an interview with him only recently on this exact subject. He says explicitly he hated it, he was miserable, he resents it to this day and would do anything to have his childhood back. He feels incredibly emotionally damaged and more than that violated by his own parents.

I saw Agassi on 60 Minutes. Maybe we both missed some point. He said he WAS miserable for a while, when he rebelled. And then he realized what he had and grew up. He came back with a vengeance, which is exactly what he did. I am an Agassi fan, which is why I watched it and paid attention.

[henryrobinett]

Listen, I love people who excel at life and the games inherent in it, like the arts. I mean EXCEL. It's what makes life worth living for me. I love the Mozarts, Rembrants, Charlie Parkers, Coltranes, Jarretts, Coreas, Beethoven, Stravinsky, Chopin, Bach, Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Kobe, Mayweather, Satchel Page, Liszt, Ellington, . . . most all who started as very, very young artists.

They have made a contribution that far exceeds the everyday and mundane. They have shown us what it really means to be human, by being and doing what others thought was NOT human, or merely impossible. They push the boundaries and don't listen to stupid people who tell them what they can't do. They DEFINE HUMANITY because they embody the best of us and become sign posts for what we too can become if only we dream and work exceptionally hard.

There will ALWAYS be naysayers. Always. The great breadth of humanity resent being reminded what they didn't or can't do and they will point fingers and cast blame and invent all kinds of reasons why it shouldn't be done or why it's wrong.

My life has been enriched by the great artists contributions and their willing sacrifices. My imagination has been set afire by these titans. And I will ignore those who discount them for whatever reason. They have earned my respect, forever.

[gregory]

Henry I think it's a lost cause. Craziness abounds in this thread. Now serious pursuit of the mastery of a musical instrument can be compared to kiddie pageants!! It's quite presumptuous to claim to know how many hours it took for this child to accomplish what she has. I have a feeling that there are many thousands of kids putting the same time into pressing plastic buttons on guitar hero but no one complains about that.

[AfterViewer]

Watching the vid I could see that this little performer looked up and smiled sweetly at a point in the music that she felt was very special to her, not just that she was able to produce the mathematics involved, but that she had the best seat in the house to hear it "materialize" regardless of who might be producing those particular bars of music.

[AfterViewer]

Check out this kid. Wonder how long he's been jamm'in? Awesome. YouTube - Insanely Amazing Guitar Solo

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by AfterViewer

Check out this kid. Wonder how long he's been jamm'in? Awesome. YouTube - Insanely Amazing Guitar Solo

i should go... practice some... kthxbye

[Dean Roddey]

Yeh, that, to me, is pretty non-wanky shredding. Very creative for the shredding type thing, and he's obviously stupidly good, even if someone doesn't go for that style.

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by faramita

Henry is the only guy here who makes sense.
Argument about sports over-training is pure bull.
Just look at some of the gymnasts. Just one example Nadia Comaneci youngest ever to get golds in Olympics, first to get clean 10s, trained 8 hours a day since she was 6. At the age of 40 I saw her doing double back-tack dismount from beam.
Eat your heart out Mr. "danger in over-training". And there are many, many examples like that, they are just not necessarily as famous.

dude all gymnasts are dwarves.

And the argument of "she smile, she must be happy" is... o yea I went with that prostitute the other day, she smiled, she felt sooo special.

Shit, the simple fact of posting a vid of a young kid on youtube is wrong in my book.

[Chris Lago]

Cool, now let's see if she can write a hit song, then I'll consider her great