Co-Produced and engineered my first top 20!!

[SONGDOC]

Hello fellow Gearslutz. I'm not big on talking myself up, but this was a 16 year journey and hopefully it will keep some of you motivated. i know this forum has picked me up more than once.
I work in the country market and have a song sitting at number 11 on the charts. It's my buddy Jamey Johnson with a song titled "In Color". Please check it out and let me know what you think.
The great thing about this record is the way we approached it. No vocal tunning, very few overdubs, and not loud at all. Most of the lead vocals were live as we tracked. I am so tired of the current country radio. So far we have got nothing but great response from fans and critics alike. I know there are few country fans around here, but i would like your input on the feel of this record, as i am very proud of this one. It also got me a spot in the October issue of Mix magazine. They were shocked when i told them there wasn't a mic on the record over $200, except for the vocal mic.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for a great outlet for the community.
T.W.

[jeremy.c.]

Awesome story and congrats!

[Karloff70]

Get in!! Like the approach a lot by description. About time that music without autotune and without mad loudness gets up there again!! Congrats!!!

Death to the overpolished turd!!

[Karloff70]

Just checked it out on youtube....well done mate! I'm no country guy, but hey...always have a love/hate thing about country lyrics......something about the fact that they talk about real sh*t is very very appealing, but sometimes I blow a cheesefuse here and there...balancing act. Love the fact it dies into small guit at the end and no sloppy popfade. Congrats again!

[SONGDOC]

Thanks for the support guys. I've, unfortunately, been doing the smashed thing for so long. A couple years ago I decided there are enough over-mashers here in town. I thought i'd back down and get back to the music. I have quite a few followers now. Hopefully we can take back the dynamic range.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by SONGDOC

Thanks for the support guys. I've, unfortunately, been doing the smashed thing for so long. A couple years ago I decided there are enough over-mashers here in town. I thought i'd back down and get back to the music. I have quite a few followers now. Hopefully we can take back the dynamic range.

For a split second there I thought you were referring to your avatar....lol

Get in there with that dynamic range, someone has to do it. Right behind ya....

[memphisindie]

You should post a link to some better audio than Youtube.
I'd love to hear it.
Heck, I'm not "the biggest" country music fan, but I live in a redneck neighborhood in Memphis and my neighbors would appreciate this up loud. I'll just have to buy it to support a "real engineer" with a backbone and some nads to do it right. My youngest loves country and baseball games over the radio. He'll love it!
Maybe there is a future for music.
Keep up the best work and best practices!
YOU TOTALLY ROCK!

CONGRATULATIONS!

[nickynicknick]

Congratulations on your first top 20...probably be a lot more with your new/old approach. Cheers.

Nick

[SONGDOC]

Thanks guys, i'll try and get up some better clips.
Number 10 as of 11-24.

[celticrogues]

Congrats! Thats awesome - cool song too!

Cheers!
-MIke

[SONGDOC]

Update:
It hit the top 10 and just found out it received 3 Grammy noms.
Best country male vocal performance
Song of the year
Album of the year.
All in the country genre, of course. It's so amazing to see a project you've poured your heart and soul into get that kind of recognition. It doesn't matter if we get it or not, just to know that raw, unprocessed music still appeals to the public is refreshing.
OK, enough of the soap box crap. Thanks again for a great source of inspiration and information all these years here at Gearslutz. Keep up the good music fellow slutz.

[Kris]

What did you record to, and what/where did you mix?

[Tony Shepperd]

Congrats T.W.!

Nashville Skyline: Jamey Johnson’s That Lonesome Song

[thedoner]

Congrats! Hope your organic approach catches on...We need a serious return to that aesthetic

[Meriphew]

Good job and congrats!

[ricfoxx]

Thats awesome!thumbsup

[SONGDOC]

"That Lonesome Song" has 3 grammy noms. Male vocal performance, song of the year, and album of the year. Who'd of thunk it? Kinda makes me feel good knowing that it can still be done raw and un-tunned and there are others out there who feel the same way.

[slaphappygarry]

Awesome!

G

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by SONGDOC

"That Lonesome Song" has 3 grammy noms. Male vocal performance, song of the year, and album of the year. Who'd of thunk it? Kinda makes me feel good knowing that it can still be done raw and un-tunned and there are others out there who feel the same way.

It surprises me that it ever took hold to do it any other way!

Now that you've done it, do you see what I mean?

It's bizzarre idnit? Doing it the corect way exists in people's minds as an anomoly rather than the norm.

I wonder what factors influenced THAT perception.

A heard of young jackases from the labels.

[roostert]

Originally Posted by SONGDOC

"That Lonesome Song" has 3 grammy noms. Male vocal performance, song of the year, and album of the year. Who'd of thunk it? Kinda makes me feel good knowing that it can still be done raw and un-tunned and there are others out there who feel the same way.

Hey T,

I love the record. Love what you did, and what Moose, Swine, and all the boys played. Let's not forget how important the song and the artist are to helping accomplish this feat. Jamie would sound horrible tuned. He's like Hank Jr. If he's not natural, it ain' right. This was the perfect album for him and cudos to you, and everyone involved. If we could have more artists and songs like this in Nashville, then I think this approach has a chance. Unfortunatley, the current trend is to sign the Taylor Swift's of the world, and for me to eat, I gotta tune and compress, do what the label wants. Jamie is one of those rare opportunities that comes along (as you said you've been waiting 16 years) that allows you, as the engineer, an opportunity to make change! I'm glad everyone including Jamie recognized this, and went with their gut. Congrats brother!

MM

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by roostert

Hey T,

I love the record. Love what you did, and what Moose, Swine, and all the boys played. Let's not forget how important the song and the artist are to helping accomplish this feat. Jamie would sound horrible tuned. He's like Hank Jr. If he's not natural, it ain' right. This was the perfect album for him and cudos to you, and everyone involved. If we could have more artists and songs like this in Nashville, then I think this approach has a chance. Unfortunatley, the current trend is to sign the Taylor Swift's of the world, and for me to eat, I gotta tune and compress, do what the label wants. Jamie is one of those rare opportunities that comes along (as you said you've been waiting 16 years) that allows you, as the engineer, an opportunity to make change! I'm glad everyone including Jamie recognized this, and went with their gut. Congrats brother!

MM

Take a page out of old school NYC, tell the label you did all that stuff, but, DON'T actually do it.
Nobody HAS to do anything, you can hire a vocal coach so next time you won't have to tune or coach, the artist improves, recordings get better, sessions are better, sales get better, the bar is raised back to where it was lowered from. Just don't let on what you did. There will always be some form of compression, you just don't have to over-do it.
It takes about ten more minutes to mix a song that isn't compressed to lifelessness.
People say we haven't cheapened the art to bubble gum? Look what we've done to country! Let over-compressing and auto-tuning and everything that stunts the growth of talent be what it is, UNCOOL.
Support people, not gadgets.
Autotune is better and appropriately used in mall booths advertising "anybody can sing", when the reality is anybody who doesn't do serious work on it can't, without the box.
It isn't just talent either. Over-compressing and auto-tuning also props up substandard engineering and engineers. You never have to learn how to really mix well. You just push the button.
Doesn't mean you can't, you just don't.

So now, you have substandard talent propped up by spineless craftsmen. Record company extortion heaven! That's all marketing and accounting driven policy and it has nothing to do with art or music. Everytime a group has a distinct sound due to anomoly or quality a new genre pops up to put it in a little box inside a bigger box and now it's about the boxes instead of what's in the boxes. It's NUTS! They are actually marketing the marketing now, not the music!

Cheap cheap cheap.
It all equals betting on failure and substandard work being perceived as passable by the end user and a big ass marketing effort to stem loss. Looking at sales, I'd say that was a bad bet. It's built and building a LOT of bad karma.
Get some backbone people.

In the long run, if you have something great to sell, it will sell, if you don't, it won't.
The more we make "making things not great as a built in process", the less records will sell.
We have removed the opportunities for human beings to be great and excellent and express greatness and excellence in and at our crafts, apparently without a fight.
Everything is now just passably good enough, overproduced, energy-less, boring, and homogeneous sounding.
Who would pay for that?
Music today is like that paperboard black laquer coated furniture, looks good for a minute but it doesn't hold value.

[SONGDOC]

Originally Posted by roostert

Hey T,

I love the record. Love what you did, and what Moose, Swine, and all the boys played. Let's not forget how important the song and the artist are to helping accomplish this feat. Jamie would sound horrible tuned. He's like Hank Jr. If he's not natural, it ain' right. This was the perfect album for him and cudos to you, and everyone involved. If we could have more artists and songs like this in Nashville, then I think this approach has a chance. Unfortunatley, the current trend is to sign the Taylor Swift's of the world, and for me to eat, I gotta tune and compress, do what the label wants. Jamie is one of those rare opportunities that comes along (as you said you've been waiting 16 years) that allows you, as the engineer, an opportunity to make change! I'm glad everyone including Jamie recognized this, and went with their gut. Congrats brother!

MM

Thanks man. Yea, i did a lot for the thing but none of that matters without the talent that went into this thing. The band gets to play around a great vocal and lyric with no click track in the way. It is a beautiful thing. They are AMAZING players. That's why we formed the "Kent Hardly Playboys". There is no one producer on the project. We all took a share in this thing and thanks to Jamey for giving us the freedom. He wanted this to be there album as well as his, hence the long ass outros with some great playing.
Except for the 3 song we swapped out, the record was tracked from 2pm to 1am. The majority of the vocals you hear were the tracking vocals. On "That Lonesome Song" in the last chorus you can hear the bleed from his live acoustic slammin through the vocal mic. Little stuff like that makes me smile.

[roostert]

Originally Posted by SONGDOC

Thanks man. Yea, i did a lot for the thing but none of that matters without the talent that went into this thing. The band gets to play around a great vocal and lyric with no click track in the way. It is a beautiful thing. They are AMAZING players. That's why we formed the "Kent Hardly Playboys". There is no one producer on the project. We all took a share in this thing and thanks to Jamey for giving us the freedom. He wanted this to be there album as well as his, hence the long ass outros with some great playing.
Except for the 3 song we swapped out, the record was tracked from 2pm to 1am. The majority of the vocals you hear were the tracking vocals. On "That Lonesome Song" in the last chorus you can hear the bleed from his live acoustic slammin through the vocal mic. Little stuff like that makes me smile.

Anytime. Yeah, I knew about the no click thing, it all really works. I love it.

MM

[roostert]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Take a page out of old school NYC, tell the label you did all that stuff, but, DON'T actually do it.
Nobody HAS to do anything, you can hire a vocal coach so next time you won't have to tune or coach, the artist improves, recordings get better, sessions are better, sales get better, the bar is raised back to where it was lowered from. Just don't let on what you did. There will always be some form of compression, you just don't have to over-do it.
It takes about ten more minutes to mix a song that isn't compressed to lifelessness.
People say we haven't cheapened the art to bubble gum? Look what we've done to country! Let over-compressing and auto-tuning and everything that stunts the growth of talent be what it is, UNCOOL.
Support people, not gadgets.
Autotune is better and appropriately used in mall booths advertising "anybody can sing", when the reality is anybody who doesn't do serious work on it can't, without the box.
It isn't just talent either. Over-compressing and auto-tuning also props up substandard engineering and engineers. You never have to learn how to really mix well. You just push the button.
Doesn't mean you can't, you just don't.

So now, you have substandard talent propped up by spineless craftsmen. Record company extortion heaven! That's all marketing and accounting driven policy and it has nothing to do with art or music. Everytime a group has a distinct sound due to anomoly or quality a new genre pops up to put it in a little box inside a bigger box and now it's about the boxes instead of what's in the boxes. It's NUTS! They are actually marketing the marketing now, not the music!

Cheap cheap cheap.
It all equals betting on failure and substandard work being perceived as passable by the end user and a big ass marketing effort to stem loss. Looking at sales, I'd say that was a bad bet. It's built and building a LOT of bad karma.
Get some backbone people.

In the long run, if you have something great to sell, it will sell, if you don't, it won't.
The more we make "making things not great as a built in process", the less records will sell.
We have removed the opportunities for human beings to be great and excellent and express greatness and excellence in and at our crafts, apparently without a fight.
Everything is now just passably good enough, overproduced, energy-less, boring, and homogeneous sounding.
Who would pay for that?
Music today is like that paperboard black laquer coated furniture, looks good for a minute but it doesn't hold value.

I hope you understand that I agree with your post, for the most part. Just don't make it sound like I don't have a set when you don't even know who I am, or what I've accomplished. I'm not sure you've ever worked in Nashville, and if you have, I'm wondering how long you were able to last? If you don't dig it, not my problem. I was simply stating that when an artist like Jamie Johnson comes along (and do you know any of his background of getting to this point, this album?.....maybe T can fill you in, let's just say he's had quite a journey in 3 years), you have the opportunity to do exactly what you were saying in your post, let the music be.....That's why I gave props to T. I'm not gonna make a Keith Urban record the same way I would a Jamie Johnson record. Different deal. Jamie sounds great a little out of tune and a little out of the pocket. If you pocket him, and tune him it doesn't sound right. But some artists sing with great emotion and feel, and they require some massaging. I can't tell you that I like all "modern" country, but you also can't tell me that it doesn't sell. Taylor Swift sold 660,000 units the first week. If the label is paying me $1800/day to work on Taylor, I'm going to work on it. I'm beyond the Eutopia of believing that it's all about the music. It's a business, and ultimately the producer is my boss. I'm not the producer. I do what is required to stay employed. I work closely with my employers, and offer suggestions and advice, but I'm never the final decision maker. I have to deliver on whatever they want. Not all of us can be Daniel Lanois. For every gem I get to be a part of, there are 9 or 10 that pay the bills. That's the reality. And don't give me the song and dance that all music in the past was done way better because of different recording techniques, or artistry. It was the same then as it is now. There was a bunch of crap back then, just like now. We always remember the good stuff, and I hope that this Jamie Johnson album, 30 years from now, will be remembered as the good stuff!

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Hey man this is really kool...CONGRATS really...Can I ask what gear/mic/pres u use on the records?...

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Originally Posted by moracspace

Its obvious that none of that really matters.Do you get the premise?

Well its not really about it mattering or not...I pull out cheap mics often & get good results with many songs on top gospel charts so I was just being nosy...No biggie tho...

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by roostert

I hope you understand that I agree with your post, for the most part. Just don't make it sound like I don't have a set when you don't even know who I am, or what I've accomplished. I'm not sure you've ever worked in Nashville, and if you have, I'm wondering how long you were able to last? If you don't dig it, not my problem. I was simply stating that when an artist like Jamie Johnson comes along (and do you know any of his background of getting to this point, this album?.....maybe T can fill you in, let's just say he's had quite a journey in 3 years), you have the opportunity to do exactly what you were saying in your post, let the music be.....That's why I gave props to T. I'm not gonna make a Keith Urban record the same way I would a Jamie Johnson record. Different deal. Jamie sounds great a little out of tune and a little out of the pocket. If you pocket him, and tune him it doesn't sound right. But some artists sing with great emotion and feel, and they require some massaging. I can't tell you that I like all "modern" country, but you also can't tell me that it doesn't sell. Taylor Swift sold 660,000 units the first week. If the label is paying me $1800/day to work on Taylor, I'm going to work on it. I'm beyond the Eutopia of believing that it's all about the music. It's a business, and ultimately the producer is my boss. I'm not the producer. I do what is required to stay employed. I work closely with my employers, and offer suggestions and advice, but I'm never the final decision maker. I have to deliver on whatever they want. Not all of us can be Daniel Lanois. For every gem I get to be a part of, there are 9 or 10 that pay the bills. That's the reality. And don't give me the song and dance that all music in the past was done way better because of different recording techniques, or artistry. It was the same then as it is now. There was a bunch of crap back then, just like now. We always remember the good stuff, and I hope that this Jamie Johnson album, 30 years from now, will be remembered as the good stuff!

Oh yeah, well, I agree 125% with your post!
That's right, I totally agree. It hasn't changed much in practice, but in funding it has, less artists are selling 660,000 every year. I am frustrated that labels can't see what they've inadvertently done and that they take no responsibility and no action to correct.
I'm not stuck on the "things were better in the past" thing, I have too good of a memory for that.
Artists that sell a lot the first week don't necessarily sell to actual customers, sometimes they are sold to the label, not as promo, to boost the numbers and sometimes that's part of the deal. I didn't get here yesterday.
My post was not directed at you as any sort of personal afront, it was more of slag on all of us me especially. Normally and mostly I do what I said, but, in the past I've been as guilty as the next guy doing what anybody wants. I don't think everyone is doing that and I don't think that one approach to all recordings is appropriate either. What I mean is, that little bit of work that we do that is definitely non-artistic bill paying is very potent at destroying the craft as a whole. Gee, wish I'd said it like that before instead of pissin in the beans.

[roostert]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Oh yeah, well, I agree 125% with your post!
That's right, I totally agree. It hasn't changed much in practice, but in funding it has, less artists are selling 660,000 every year. I am frustrated that labels can't see what they've inadvertently done and that they take no responsibility and no action to correct.
I'm not stuck on the "things were better in the past" thing, I have too good of a memory for that.
Artists that sell a lot the first week don't necessarily sell to actual customers, sometimes they are sold to the label, not as promo, to boost the numbers and sometimes that's part of the deal. I didn't get here yesterday.
My post was not directed at you as any sort of personal afront, it was more of slag on all of us me especially. Normally and mostly I do what I said, but, in the past I've been as guilty as the next guy doing what anybody wants. I don't think everyone is doing that and I don't think that one approach to all recordings is appropriate either. What I mean is, that little bit of work that we do that is definitely non-artistic bill paying is very potent at destroying the craft as a whole. Gee, wish I'd said it like that before instead of pissin in the beans.

No sweat man. Just wanted to clarify that many of us, in this evil "makin' money from music" world, want to do great music every day, just like T. The reality is, with kids and wife/ etc...., a man has to maintain a certain living. We all work on projects we're proud of, and some we're not. I've even asked in the past to not have my name in the credits, more than once. You just don't work on the next record. However, rest assured, there are many of us in the country market, trying to make a change. It doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen. There are many political, social, and business chains that hold many of us back from moving quickly, but it will happen. The "Music-Mafia's" deal was to make a change and bring back good music, however, if you ask me, in some ways, after the success, the money was just too good! I hope Jamie just doesn't become the "flavor of the day". I hope it helps to open some eyes and awareness that his kind of "country" will sell, and will be played on radio. The Country genre is so diverse, and always has been, that I believe Keith Urban and Jamie Johnson can always co-exist.......I guess they already are! I love you passion!

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by roostert

No sweat man. Just wanted to clarify that many of us, in this evil "makin' money from music" world, want to do great music every day, just like T. The reality is, with kids and wife/ etc...., a man has to maintain a certain living. We all work on projects we're proud of, and some we're not. I've even asked in the past to not have my name in the credits, more than once. You just don't work on the next record. However, rest assured, there are many of us in the country market, trying to make a change. It doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen. There are many political, social, and business chains that hold many of us back from moving quickly, but it will happen. The "Music-Mafia's" deal was to make a change and bring back good music, however, if you ask me, in some ways, after the success, the money was just too good! I hope Jamie just doesn't become the "flavor of the day". I hope it helps to open some eyes and awareness that his kind of "country" will sell, and will be played on radio. The Country genre is so diverse, and always has been, that I believe Keith Urban and Jamie Johnson can always co-exist.......I guess they already are! I love you passion!

Hey you and me and I bet most people here, we love our work!

[b808]

Awesome Job man!