My first Billboard-charting record!

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Thanks, guys!!!

The crazy thing is seeing the number of units it's sold; it's really not all that much. A real sign of the times, y'know?

Big Congrats!! that awesome!

yes, sales arent what they used to be by a LONG SHOT. different genre, but i just mixed half of the new Danity Kane album and the first single "Damaged". "Damaged "is currently #3 on the Pop Radio charts. The album debuted #1 and has been on the charts for 12 weeks, and it only sold 5,700 units last week. WTF!!!! I was stunned when i saw that. Singles definitely are not driving albums sales hardly at all anymore.

How are we supposed to make money anymore? Whats gonna be the new model for producers other than a low producer fee and points which will probably be completely worthless? Some sort of small 360 producer deal? Anyone got a theory? actually, nevermind, i dont wanna hijack the thread. i wanna offer you awesome congrats and hopes of many many more. ROCK!

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Big Congrats!! that awesome!

yes, sales arent what they used to be by a LONG SHOT. different genre, but i just mixed half of the new Danity Kane album and the first single "Damaged". "Damaged "is currently #3 on the Pop Radio charts. The album debuted #1 and has been on the charts for 12 weeks, and it only sold 5,700 units last week. WTF!!!! I was stunned when i saw that. Singles definitely are not driving albums sales hardly at all anymore.

How are we supposed to make money anymore? Whats gonna be the new model for producers other than a low producer fee and points which will probably be completely worthless? Some sort of small 360 producer deal? Anyone got a theory? actually, nevermind, i dont wanna hijack the thread. i wanna offer you awesome congrats and hopes of many many more. ROCK!

Hijack away! I've been asking myself those same questions lately.

One thing that struck me was the conundrum of digital distribution. I mean, the Dresden Dolls are not only big with "the kids", they're quite savvy with regards to their online marketing (which they handle much of on their own). I'd imagine that a large percentage of their sales comes from downloads; SoundScan's reach in the digital domain is extremely limited, and the RIAA has really inconsistent practices for counting online sales.

So when do we think the Gold record will become extinct? Records (or at least their digital counterparts) may see continuing sales, but a means for reliable tracking of sales may become a thing of the past. And what about those fans that only download their favorite songs from a given record? The RIAA awards Gold status to those singles that earn 100,000 downloads, but the important question becomes: downloads from whom/where? Not all the online download sites report back to the RIAA, which I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, **** the RIAA. On the other, the Gold/Platinum status record has become a standard by which to judge an artist, and more importantly (for folks like me, at least), their production team. And goddammit, I wanna Gold record!!

Anyway, the future is gonna hold some real interesting developments. And I'd love to hear your thoughts, Ken. Have you noticed any shifts in the attitudes of the producers with whom you work? I know I certainly have. I'm not at a point where I can demand points on a record, and from the looks of it, I may never be (nor might I event want them!!). How does a Ken Lewis approach a major label mix gig? Do you still rely on points (ie - physical record sales) for your living? Or at some point do you feel you'll need to simply raise your rates and tell your manager to pull the bargaining chips off the table?

I'd love some of your input, Ken, so again: hijack away! Maybe we can move this thread or start a new one elsewhere?

Oh, and thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate it.

[Mike Caffrey]

Gearsluts are rocking the charts.

I've got something a few charts at the moment. It's the oddest production credit I've ever had: "Drum producer"

Greg Wells is on it too, but a different track as far as I know.

[Mike Caffrey]

Well, I should probably pay more attention to these things, but apparently it just moved to #1 to be Billboard's 1,000th #1 song in the history of the Hot 100 chart.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Hijack away! I've been asking myself those same questions lately.

One thing that struck me was the conundrum of digital distribution. I mean, the Dresden Dolls are not only big with "the kids", they're quite savvy with regards to their online marketing (which they handle much of on their own). I'd imagine that a large percentage of their sales comes from downloads; SoundScan's reach in the digital domain is extremely limited, and the RIAA has really inconsistent practices for counting online sales.

So when do we think the Gold record will become extinct? Records (or at least their digital counterparts) may see continuing sales, but a means for reliable tracking of sales may become a thing of the past. And what about those fans that only download their favorite songs from a given record? The RIAA awards Gold status to those singles that earn 100,000 downloads, but the important question becomes: downloads from whom/where? Not all the online download sites report back to the RIAA, which I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, **** the RIAA. On the other, the Gold/Platinum status record has become a standard by which to judge an artist, and more importantly (for folks like me, at least), their production team. And goddammit, I wanna Gold record!!

Anyway, the future is gonna hold some real interesting developments. And I'd love to hear your thoughts, Ken. Have you noticed any shifts in the attitudes of the producers with whom you work? I know I certainly have. I'm not at a point where I can demand points on a record, and from the looks of it, I may never be (nor might I event want them!!). How does a Ken Lewis approach a major label mix gig? Do you still rely on points (ie - physical record sales) for your living? Or at some point do you feel you'll need to simply raise your rates and tell your manager to pull the bargaining chips off the table?

I'd love some of your input, Ken, so again: hijack away! Maybe we can move this thread or start a new one elsewhere?

Oh, and thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate it.

Well, i think gold records are almost a thing of the past now except for the very elite artists. I mean, a #1 Billboard album debut definitely does not at all guarantee you even a gold record nowadays. And again, when you think that Danity Kane was selling only 5,700 units a week and falling in its 12 week on the charts after a #1 debut, you could easily see how a record could have really strong sales for many weeks and then take 3 more years to crack gold if ever. scary. there will always be those records and artists that a whole bunch of people will go spend money on. they are just fewer and fewer each year.

I dont know how itunes gets reported. i'd like to know.

as for producers. I generally think we're F'd. seriously. I think especially if you are a producer who is not also contributing as a writer on a project, you really have no leverage at all to demand anything except what you'd traditionally get, 3 points and an up front fee. If your writing, at leats you have 2 income streams on the record. Problem is there's always someone else willing to produce an artist for what the label is willing to pay, or not pay. Just like with mixers asking for points. except for the VERY few, it doesnt happen. i think it will be the same with producers asking for 360 type deals. UNTIL the record companies are gone, or marginalized. then i think when the record companies become coca cola and walmart and target directly, thinking will be a bit more broad.

As the model for the music industry heads toward revenue sharing for advertising dollars and not direct album and single sales, towards subscription services and free promo stuff, its going to take a while for the benefit to trickle down to the producer, just like it took years to remove breakage fee's after vinyl wasnt the main medium.

This industry is definitely getting F'd up quickly. My work is slammin right now, but man, that could all dry up by next year. who knows.

Any my mix rates have actually gone DOWN in the last 5 years as my credit list has gone thru the roof. Nowadays, i charge less to majors to mix, AND provide an SSL room, than i did to go elseware and mix 5 years ago, when the label also had to book a room. and yet still i get beat up on my rates all the time. Its sad but true.