Just Landed my First FILM SCORE!! ... now what?

joenovice · 18th March 2007, 12:11 PM

I've been working toward doing a film project for some time. I've done freebies before but nothing professionally. After months this guy gives me the callback for composing the underscore.

At our first meeting we talk about everything; underscore, audio quality, music editing, etc.

By time I left I was hired as sound engineer, music editor, and composer. HOLY SHIT!!! This is going to be a ton of work!

Any suggestions?

blaugruen7 · 18th March 2007, 12:16 PM

carefully plan how much work you have to do and how much money you want.
so you dont have to overwhelm yourself.
congratulations. life is great.

PlugHead · 18th March 2007, 12:44 PM

Congrats!!!

This is a great start into hopefully what will be a continuing road into the biz. Get a contract ASAP: have in writing what is expected of you, and don't undervalue your work.

My advice - keep a cool head. Things will get overwhelming: when there's tension, work hard at keeping emotions down, and the task at hand.

Composing can be tough enough - doing editing/engineering can add stress, and often waters down what you should be focussing on - composition and it's role with the picture!

Are you alone? Is there anyone else doing editing/engineering? Is this a 'budget' film, or an indie venture?

I've done composition for more than a couple of projects, and that got me wanting to do more in the film industry. It's a different game than working with bands/musicians...

In any case, good luck with it!

joenovice · 18th March 2007, 01:25 PM

I am alone. There are others who will handle the dolby and dts encoding during the mastering process.

The film, as best I can tell, is low budget/indie but does have some funds. I will be paid for engineering and given a deferred percentage for composing. (I'm thinking 3% of revenue while retaining composers percentages of the copyrights.)

The details haven't been hammered down yet. It's difficult to work that stuff out. I'm not sure what to charge for the engineering. Obviously the standard studio fee $60-90 an hour is not possible. It's a two hour film with dozens of cuts and lots of audio. Editing for Act 1 will take a week (few hours a day) tops.

Any suggestions on the financial side?

PlugHead · 18th March 2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

Any suggestions on the financial side?

There are a few here that can give you better advice than I. My exp. is mostly doing doc's, and short experimental films, so feature length film is not in my repertoire yet.

I've ended up shooting myself in the foot more than once doing my own negotiations...

Sharp11 · 18th March 2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

I've been working toward doing a film project for some time. I've done freebies before but nothing professionally. After months this guy gives me the callback for composing the underscore.

At our first meeting we talk about everything; underscore, audio quality, music editing, etc.

By time I left I was hired as sound engineer, music editor, and composer. HOLY SHIT!!! This is going to be a ton of work!

Any suggestions?

Welcome to the wonderful world of the indy film bizz.

Make certain you've got a stop date in your contract - also be sure to have a locked picture start date - you're going to want at least six weeks, but you'll end up with three because the director won't be able to stop editing (he'll call it tweaking) the picture while you're trying to compose to picture.

I will never work on a movie again that doesn't have a music editor. Do you know what this means? This means you're going to have to spot, figure out the timings of every cue then, when the film's done, you're going to have to watch the entire thing, prepare your cue sheets, name every cue, submit to ASCAP, etc. etc. etc..........it's a full time job in itself.

One last thing, these people will come back to you months later, hoping you'll gratefully oblige them for copies, compilations, and more pain in the ass work.

Just say no....

Ed

joenovice · 18th March 2007, 04:26 PM

The comments you guys are providing are very helpful for me. I wanted to give a BIG "Gracias!"

I am fimilar with "music editor" and have done a great deal of reading on this subject. I actually took Cue Sheets to the first meeting for the director. (I'm not sure he is fimilar with them....) I explained their usage both as compositional referrence as well as copyright sync documentation.

I've never used them for a project but I know that a real music editor is out of budget and if they are used then it's up to the director or myself. I am already an Ascap member and can get the right forms for submission.

I'm also big on the idea of making a contract (deal memo) to document everything. I've read some but.....

Aside from money amounts, what type of details should we be certain to cover? credit listing, time frames, duties, and......?

Sharp11 · 19th March 2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

The comments you guys are providing are very helpful for me. I wanted to give a BIG "Gracias!"

I am fimilar with "music editor" and have done a great deal of reading on this subject. I actually took Cue Sheets to the first meeting for the director. (I'm not sure he is fimilar with them....) I explained their usage both as compositional referrence as well as copyright sync documentation.

I've never used them for a project but I know that a real music editor is out of budget and if they are used then it's up to the director or myself. I am already an Ascap member and can get the right forms for submission.

I'm also big on the idea of making a contract (deal memo) to document everything. I've read some but.....

Aside from money amounts, what type of details should we be certain to cover? credit listing, time frames, duties, and......?

What's the film's budget? If it's a typical 3 million dollar indy film, the music budget should be at least 50 thousand.

You need to do a standard film contract with an entertainment lawyer.

You'll most likely be doing an "all in" - that means non union, you-pay-for-everything out of the budget (musicians, assistants etc.). So, they give you 50 grand (usually in three installments) and you do everything else (in your case, probably including 'engineering').

You'll likely retain your writers share, but don't count on publishing. Also, be prepared for a different set of negotiations for a potential soundtrack cd/Itunes type of deal.

emkay · 19th March 2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

I've been working toward doing a film project for some time. I've done freebies before but nothing professionally. After months this guy gives me the callback for composing the underscore.

At our first meeting we talk about everything; underscore, audio quality, music editing, etc.

By time I left I was hired as sound engineer, music editor, and composer. HOLY SHIT!!! This is going to be a ton of work!

Any suggestions?

Yeah! First of all congrats! Now, stop wasting your time here, sifting through tons of advice and opinions! You obviously were hired on the merits of your abilities, if you weren't you'd be here pontificating like the rest of us!! I hope the person who hired you doesn't lurk around here! If they do-you're toast, firstly for showing that you lack the confidence and organization skills required to complete the job professionally and that secondly, that you're already complaining that its too much workl

My advice? If you're fishing for compliments , here you go---CONGRATS!!!

now that that's over with---
-Get organized
-Get to work
-Prove that they made the right choice hiring you. I'm sure they did, now get going!!!If you can't, post the contact info, I'm sure there's lots of Slutz willing to do the job.....

----peace?

joenovice · 20th March 2007, 12:09 AM

Only pricks "fish for compliments" or consider it an option.

And only fools wouldn't cover every possible resource to ensure that the work is on the level; both technically and financially. Work on the project can't begin untill contracts are signed.... hence the conversation. As stated above, if all the angles are not covered correctly one will be "shot in the foot."

I suggest if you ever get a new project unlike your day job, you consider asking others for their experience and advice. It could make your work better than simply relying on your confidence.

Thanks for your suggestions. I will try to "get organized" and "get to work." Those are qualities I obviously lack. I hope I don't let you down E.

Killahurts · 20th March 2007, 01:34 AM

Joe the only advice I can offer is to get a capable and experienced assistant, and figure out a way to get him/her paid. Man, you've just got to, if for nothing else but all the paperwork and documentation. Even if it takes a little sweetness from your bottom line, it will be worth it because you will be more free to compose a better soundtrack. And in the long run, that will translate to a better product, which will generate more sales. Hire someone to keep it all organized.

Congrats, btw

syntheticrhyme · 20th March 2007, 08:03 AM

Congrats on getting the gig. You should be prepared to do a ton of work though, i've done a few films where i did the complete score, sound effects, sound design, and everything inbetween. It's a lot of work, make sure you get compensated for it.

here's the latest film that i did (music, score, sound design,et)
http://thegeniusclubmovie.com

http://iezine.com/Music_Business.html
http://syntheticrhyme.com

MeSoHornplayer · 12th August 2007, 09:18 AM

Congrats, congrats, congrats. I don't have a clue as to what you should do, but it's great to score this kind of work. Pun intended.

jude · 17th August 2007, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syntheticrhyme

Congrats on getting the gig. You should be prepared to do a ton of work though, i've done a few films where i did the complete score, sound effects, sound design, and everything inbetween. It's a lot of work, make sure you get compensated for it.

ive done the same, and really undersold myself price wise.

be careful!, and make sure you get a cut out of the film's profits. some indie's go on to sell heaps

joenovice · 20th August 2007, 01:12 AM

Just to follow-up....

I turned in my masters today. This has been the greatest learning experience of my professional career. It was a ton more work than I anticipated but considering I've been paid upfront and have access to a future percentage, I feel good about it. Not to mention the project has BIG POTENTIAL for success as a indie documentary.

It's off to color-timming and packaging, followed by a festival tour. None of my music was used in the promo material but you can see a trailer and film info here; Jeremy Zerechak

At the end of the day I created more than 20 original pieces of music and engineered (mix, sfx, noise reduction) 90 minutes of footage.

WHOO HOOOO..... now I need to do another one!

musictechltd · 20th August 2007, 10:17 AM

Well done, I'm pleased for you!

jackrabbit · 20th August 2007, 12:42 PM

Hey, Congrats!!!!

Describe more about your experiences!!!

joenovice · 20th August 2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackrabbit

Describe more about your experiences!!!

Thanks.... I really wouldn't know where to begin. I've learned about the business side; copyrights, contracts, licenses, and working for a director

. I've also learned a lot of technical things; K-system and fixed monitor gain mixing, surround encoding and theater playback decoding, details about Dolby ProLogic, film terms and production processes, etc.

Lastly.... composing for a director is wicked hard. Sometimes you have to abandon what you KNOW is the best thing musically for what the director wants. Other times the director may be thankful that the composer argues for a musical idea (very carefully, mind you).

If you can find the work, I highly recommend it.

**Jules** · 20th August 2007, 02:58 PM

"I would like to thank, The Academy, the producers, Gearslutz.com..."

(I kid)

Hearty congrats!

I hope it picks up prizes at the festivals!

joenovice · 20th August 2007, 04:34 PM

Gearslutz would DEFINITELY come first. I wouldn't have done nearly as good a job without this place. Producers and the Academy never lifted a finger to help....

This place is like a university of information.

Kudos....

Schmacko · 20th August 2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

Gearslutz would DEFINITELY come first. I wouldn't have done nearly as good a job without this place. Producers and the Academy never lifted a finger to help....

This place is like a university of information.

Kudos....

Wow, congratulations!

It's funny, I was thinking about this thread the other day and how hard it was going to be to find because I forgot to bookmark it. But luckily, it just got bumped up! :)

Anyway, would you care to share any of your "greatest hits" of technical knowledge that you picked up along the way? Also, what software did you score to picture with? I compose in Logic, but when I used to work at a post house, the short commercials I would compose for always were done in Pro Tools HD with AV option (stuck at v6.4!). I hope to compose for film some day soon, that is why I ask ;p

Thanks, and continued success!
-G

joenovice · 21st August 2007, 01:53 AM

I did all of the composition in Cubase SX3. I feel better sequencing in Cubase than PT. The flow and VSTi management just suits me better. Wouldn't want to use PT....

Tech stuff I learned was mostly related to film standards for monitor gain, methods and standards for mixing dialog, facts of surround sound, etc.

joenovice · 22nd August 2007, 02:25 AM

How should my credits be listed?

- Music and Sound by

- Audio Engineer and Composer

- Audio Post Production and Original Score by

- Czar of all things you heard....

Jazzpunk · 22nd August 2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

How should my credits be listed?

- Music and Sound by

- Audio Engineer and Composer

- Audio Post Production and Original Score by

- Czar of all things you heard....

Try to come up with a dozen titles just so you can see your name in the creds over and over again

joenovice · 22nd August 2007, 03:40 AM

I did that but his computer can't render the text in time. I've narrowed it down to 5 but can't find a coin with enough sides to flip.

Jazzpunk · 22nd August 2007, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

I did that but his computer can't render the text in time. I've narrowed it down to 5 but can't find a coin with enough sides to flip.

Maybe check with the director and see what his thoughts are? You do want to be properly credited but I can assure you he is not going to want to see your name appearing more times in the credits than his!

joenovice · 22nd August 2007, 03:53 AM

Right.... I've got 3rd billing and one shot to credit engineering and music. I'm just wondering if there is a standard for these jobs.

londontown · 28th August 2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joenovice

I've been working toward doing a film project for some time. I've done freebies before but nothing professionally. After months this guy gives me the callback for composing the underscore.

At our first meeting we talk about everything; underscore, audio quality, music editing, etc.

By time I left I was hired as sound engineer, music editor, and composer. HOLY SHIT!!! This is going to be a ton of work!

Any suggestions?

Good luck, sure it'll be brilliant. Congratulations on landing it.

Schedule like crazy (everything, plan it all out, every detail you can think of) before you start. And figure more time than you think you need for fixes etc. etc. as if they don't crop up then great and if they do, then also great (as you'll have time). And schedule in some time to sleep.

Make cue lists and stick to them, update them, keep track of everything you write systematically (eg. cues, version numbers, revisions etc.). Don't just call a cue 'beginning' or 'opening title' but number stuff etc. and stick to it.

Don't be afraid to say no to things if you feel you have to, many a composer has fallen over the hurdle of trying to be and do everything.

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18th March 2007, 12:11 PM	#1
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	Just Landed my First FILM SCORE!! ... now what? I've been working toward doing a film project for some time. I've done freebies before but nothing professionally. After months this guy gives me the callback for composing the underscore. At our first meeting we talk about everything; underscore, audio quality, music editing, etc. By time I left I was hired as sound engineer, music editor, and composer. HOLY SHIT!!! This is going to be a ton of work! Any suggestions?

18th March 2007, 12:44 PM	#3
PlugHead Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: steeltown Posts: 1,729	Congrats!!! This is a great start into hopefully what will be a continuing road into the biz. Get a contract ASAP: have in writing what is expected of you, and don't undervalue your work. My advice - keep a cool head. Things will get overwhelming: when there's tension, work hard at keeping emotions down, and the task at hand. Composing can be tough enough - doing editing/engineering can add stress, and often waters down what you should be focussing on - composition and it's role with the picture! Are you alone? Is there anyone else doing editing/engineering? Is this a 'budget' film, or an indie venture? I've done composition for more than a couple of projects, and that got me wanting to do more in the film industry. It's a different game than working with bands/musicians... In any case, good luck with it! __________________ Jay PlugHead Productions

20th March 2007, 01:34 AM	#11
Killahurts Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,310	Joe the only advice I can offer is to get a capable and experienced assistant, and figure out a way to get him/her paid. Man, you've just got to, if for nothing else but all the paperwork and documentation. Even if it takes a little sweetness from your bottom line, it will be worth it because you will be more free to compose a better soundtrack. And in the long run, that will translate to a better product, which will generate more sales. Hire someone to keep it all organized. Congrats, btw __________________ 1310 is as good a number as any

20th March 2007, 08:03 AM	#12
syntheticrhyme Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 39	Congrats Congrats on getting the gig. You should be prepared to do a ton of work though, i've done a few films where i did the complete score, sound effects, sound design, and everything inbetween. It's a lot of work, make sure you get compensated for it. here's the latest film that i did (music, score, sound design,et) http://thegeniusclubmovie.com http://iezine.com/Music_Business.html http://syntheticrhyme.com

18th March 2007, 12:16 PM	#2
blaugruen7 Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: berlin Posts: 1,667	carefully plan how much work you have to do and how much money you want. so you dont have to overwhelm yourself. congratulations. life is great.

18th March 2007, 01:25 PM	#4
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	I am alone. There are others who will handle the dolby and dts encoding during the mastering process. The film, as best I can tell, is low budget/indie but does have some funds. I will be paid for engineering and given a deferred percentage for composing. (I'm thinking 3% of revenue while retaining composers percentages of the copyrights.) The details haven't been hammered down yet. It's difficult to work that stuff out. I'm not sure what to charge for the engineering. Obviously the standard studio fee $60-90 an hour is not possible. It's a two hour film with dozens of cuts and lots of audio. Editing for Act 1 will take a week (few hours a day) tops. Any suggestions on the financial side?

18th March 2007, 04:26 PM	#7
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	The comments you guys are providing are very helpful for me. I wanted to give a BIG "Gracias!" I am fimilar with "music editor" and have done a great deal of reading on this subject. I actually took Cue Sheets to the first meeting for the director. (I'm not sure he is fimilar with them....) I explained their usage both as compositional referrence as well as copyright sync documentation. I've never used them for a project but I know that a real music editor is out of budget and if they are used then it's up to the director or myself. I am already an Ascap member and can get the right forms for submission. I'm also big on the idea of making a contract (deal memo) to document everything. I've read some but..... Aside from money amounts, what type of details should we be certain to cover? credit listing, time frames, duties, and......?

20th March 2007, 12:09 AM	#10
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	Only pricks "fish for compliments" or consider it an option. And only fools wouldn't cover every possible resource to ensure that the work is on the level; both technically and financially. Work on the project can't begin untill contracts are signed.... hence the conversation. As stated above, if all the angles are not covered correctly one will be "shot in the foot." I suggest if you ever get a new project unlike your day job, you consider asking others for their experience and advice. It could make your work better than simply relying on your confidence. Thanks for your suggestions. I will try to "get organized" and "get to work." Those are qualities I obviously lack. I hope I don't let you down E.

12th August 2007, 09:18 AM	#13
MeSoHornplayer Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bee Cave, TX Posts: 80	Congrats, congrats, congrats. I don't have a clue as to what you should do, but it's great to score this kind of work. Pun intended.

20th August 2007, 01:12 AM	#15
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	The FILM is COMPLETED!!! Just to follow-up.... I turned in my masters today. This has been the greatest learning experience of my professional career. It was a ton more work than I anticipated but considering I've been paid upfront and have access to a future percentage, I feel good about it. Not to mention the project has BIG POTENTIAL for success as a indie documentary. It's off to color-timming and packaging, followed by a festival tour. None of my music was used in the promo material but you can see a trailer and film info here; Jeremy Zerechak At the end of the day I created more than 20 original pieces of music and engineered (mix, sfx, noise reduction) 90 minutes of footage. WHOO HOOOO..... now I need to do another one!

20th August 2007, 10:17 AM	#16
musictechltd Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South UK Posts: 13	Well done, I'm pleased for you! __________________ 'Over fifteen years without a slogan'

20th August 2007, 12:42 PM	#17
jackrabbit Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ottawa Posts: 135	Hey, Congrats!!!! Describe more about your experiences!!!

20th August 2007, 02:58 PM	#19
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,795	"I would like to thank, The Academy, the producers, Gearslutz.com..." (I kid) Hearty congrats! I hope it picks up prizes at the festivals! __________________ Jules "PS. I don't have an opinion on the topic." - jdtrbn

20th August 2007, 04:34 PM	#20
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	Gearslutz would DEFINITELY come first. I wouldn't have done nearly as good a job without this place. Producers and the Academy never lifted a finger to help.... This place is like a university of information. Kudos....

21st August 2007, 01:53 AM	#22
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	I did all of the composition in Cubase SX3. I feel better sequencing in Cubase than PT. The flow and VSTi management just suits me better. Wouldn't want to use PT.... Tech stuff I learned was mostly related to film standards for monitor gain, methods and standards for mixing dialog, facts of surround sound, etc.

22nd August 2007, 02:25 AM	#23
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	How should my credits be listed? - Music and Sound by - Audio Engineer and Composer - Audio Post Production and Original Score by - Czar of all things you heard....

22nd August 2007, 03:40 AM	#25
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	I did that but his computer can't render the text in time. I've narrowed it down to 5 but can't find a coin with enough sides to flip.

22nd August 2007, 03:53 AM	#27
joenovice Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 484	Right.... I've got 3rd billing and one shot to credit engineering and music. I'm just wondering if there is a standard for these jobs.