Swapping out 072D's in toft atb
voidtunes
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#1
17th January 2013
Old 17th January 2013
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Swapping out 072D's in toft atb

Hi All,

We are swapping out the 072 chip in our Toft ATB. Word on the grapevine is that 5532's are a good replacement everywhere except the Eq's and the THAT chip.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this? My options are the TI chips
"NE5532P' or NE5532AP". What's the A stand for? Are they better?

Another option is the On Semiconductor chips "http://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/NE5532ANG/NE5532ANGOS-ND/1484322

These are very low noise and have a wider voltage. But does this mean they sound thinner?

Any help is much appreciated.
Cheers
#2
18th January 2013
Old 18th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
Hi All,

We are swapping out the 072 chip in our Toft ATB. Word on the grapevine is that 5532's are a good replacement everywhere except the Eq's and the THAT chip.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this? My options are the TI chips
"NE5532P' or NE5532AP". What's the A stand for? Are they better?

Another option is the On Semiconductor chips "http://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/NE5532ANG/NE5532ANGOS-ND/1484322

These are very low noise and have a wider voltage. But does this mean they sound thinner?
Any help is much appreciated.
Cheers
You are probably thinking of the NE5532T - the thinner sounding package
voidtunes
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18th January 2013
Old 18th January 2013
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#4
18th January 2013
Old 18th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
Hi All,
We are swapping out the 072 chip in our Toft ATB. Word on the grapevine is that 5532's are a good replacement everywhere

Thats the internet "Grapevine " then

Wrong !

The NE5532 (BJT low Z), is not a direct replacement for the TL072 (JFET High Z).
The implications are far more than a chip swap !
As for which NE5532 "Sounds thinner" than another.
Well humm ?
Apparently the signetics one's are the best....
Again "whatever" they say ?
Never discerned any difference worth worrying about !
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#5
18th January 2013
Old 18th January 2013
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IMHO it doesn't make any sense to replace the TL072 with the NE5532.
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18th January 2013
Old 18th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
IMHO it doesn't make any sense to replace the TL072 with the NE5532.
Well yes because you can't just swap them.
And if not happy with the desk's sound then get one that you are
Happy with !
Better off looking at a recap and a good service if you do keep it.
Swapping out Opamps with no electronic knowledge offten ends in
An unusable and time wasting downgrade !
#7
18th January 2013
Old 18th January 2013
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it amazes me that many people think that swapping out 1 ic is going to make a massive improvement to their mixer. If you don't like the sound of the tl072 chip don't buy a mixer that is full of them. You want to make a real improvement? Try Star grounding your entire studio.

http://toftaudiodesigns.com/pdf/atb_manual_web.pdf page #5
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19th January 2013
Old 19th January 2013
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To be fair, they are talking about replacing dozens (hundreds?) of ICs, not just one. Of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a well designed TL072 circuit and that star grounding will make a noticeable difference ;-) However there are those who think that $5 ICs in every socket is a worth while endeavor.

From personal experience with a not-so-dissimilar board, I worked on a Trident 80B that had been completely re-capped and re-chipped. It did not have the same headroom as a stock board full of TL072s. Whoever did the mods did not take the entire circuit into consideration.
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19th January 2013
Old 19th January 2013
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it doesn't matter the number it's still a very small near insugnificant sonic change per channel. On most virtual ground mix bus systems you only have 8 sub groups and 1 master and they will probably be using different chips in those sections.

so an indistinguishable sonic change x 1 or 100 is still a indistinguishable sonic change. esp when you have to consider that you will probably be loosing headroom and pushing your power supply harder then it was designed for in the first place.

star grounding "in the mixer" or even transformer balancing the output section can yeild around 10 db of added headroom and lower SNR levels
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19th January 2013
Old 19th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Well yes because you can't just swap them.
And if not happy with the desk's sound then get one that you are
Happy with !
Better off looking at a recap and a good service if you do keep it.
Swapping out Opamps with no electronic knowledge offten ends in
An unusable and time wasting downgrade !
Absolutely. Although I think that there aren't many (if any) ATBs around in need of recap. AFAIK it isn't that old console.
#11
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
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when replacing tl072 you may want to look into opa2134
#12
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
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Hi
A carefull, fully tested exchange of SOME of the parts will probably 'improve' some of the aspects but there are no real 'magic bullets' that will make it 'perfect'.
The OPA2134 is probably a reasonable suggestion for exchange in SOME places but having just been playing with some in another piece of gear I found them to be 3dB noisier than NE5534 (I was using singles not duals).
You have to consider the circuit impedances for EACH stage and make complimentary adjustments as necessary.
Star grounding will not do anything for circuit HISS, only mains related 'hum' and some other interference received from 'outside'.
Balancing a previously unbalanced output can increase headroom by 6dB as it simply doubles up the available output voltage, but you would need to reduce the gain elsewhere to get back to your nominal +4dBu (0VU) by which time the noise will be approximately the same. The extra 6dB voltage headroom gained will only be realised if your converters are suitably aligned and capable of handling what should be approaching +28dBu.
Output transformers COULD be added at 1:1 ratio which will not affect HISS at all. Beware of the chip driving the output as not all can give sufficient current (a TL072 WON'T for example) although a OPA2134 should (not tried it myself) and NE5532 will. Practically NO chips will drive a transformer with ratios greater than 1:1 (for example 1:2 to give 6dB 'gain') as the current necessary quadruples.
If changing chips you must recalculate the power necessary as the NE5532 takes about twice the standing current of a TL072. I think the OPA is about half as much again as a TL0.
Matt S
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
when replacing tl072 you may want to look into opa2134
+1
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31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
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Some years ago, just for fun, I performed some listening tests between a 741, a TL071, and an Ne5534. I was very surprised to find that the 741 didn't sound bad at all. The TL0 had a kind of "dry" or what I call "earthy" sound with a loose but "funky" low end. The 5534 had a more "hifi" type sound with tighter low end but not as funky as the TL0.

Chips do sound different, it's just a matter of what flavor you want. At the end of the day the term "upgrade" simply means a change in flavor. My suggestion is to aquire a bunch of chips and set them up for listening tests and running your favorite CD's through them.
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