Could i get some advice on something?

[Richard Crowley]

1) In modern times "recording and production" is intimately involved with (and based on) computers. If "computers are driving you up the wall", you will not get very far away from them in the recording and production genre.
2) From my perspective and what I read from long-time professionals here, there is orders of magnitude more $$$, jobs, etc. in computers, as fascinating as "recording and production" may be.
3) From personal experience using "computers" as a day-job to finance my work in audio and video production is a golden combination.

My recommendation would be to continue a major in computer technology both to "pay the bills" and also because technology is the basis of modern media production, and then to study and work with media production.

[dubmunkey]

Originally Posted by rcrowley

1) In modern times "recording and production" is intimately involved with (and based on) computers. If "computers are driving you up the wall", you will not get very far away from them in the recording and production genre.
2) From my perspective and what I read from long-time professionals here, there is orders of magnitude more $$$, jobs, etc. in computers, as fascinating as "recording and production" may be.
3) From personal experience using "computers" as a day-job to finance my work in audio and video production is a golden combination.

My recommendation would be to continue a major in computer technology both to "pay the bills" and also because technology is the basis of modern media production, and then to study and work with media production.

+1. Computers are pretty ubiquitous with lots of modern non-skilled jobs. Anything office based will be prob > 80% computer work. Many media roles are the same, not a lot of escape.

[Codyjae]

Here is my thing, I've been doing computers for a long time. Working on ccna certification which alone should make me decent income I'd hope. Although it is something I'm very good at, proggramming, it wouldn't be my desired career, just go for the degree in resume. I go to mtsu and evidently is a very good school for recording industry, and to access the material I'd like to access would require a major in it. This really has been a rough decision for me, probably due to the lacking undergrad program of computers and the people being not my type of people that I typically get along with on a long term scale. It's all rather stressful for me, this decision. I really enjoy the production part of music and my skills in computers do make it a lot more easier and more fun. I enjoy the freedom and creativity involved and would like to do side research on new ways to go about the process but even that may need a electrical engineering major. College is confusing

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[JohnRoberts]

It is unusual for there to be so much overlap, but I am inclined to +1 the advice to continue in your computer major, and then consider music studies as a minor or second study. it will always be easier to earn a living with computers, and if lucky you can find a gig working with computers and music.

JR

[Codyjae]

Thanks guys really means a lot. Are any of you in the business? And can give me insight? Probably gonna minor in it and keep my computer

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[doulos30]

want to make more then a typical recording engineer easy just find a job where you say

would you like fries with that?

[tINY]

Have you considered anything else?

I have a dim view of "computer science" majors (programmers, mostly). It seems that they are always over-complicating things to a level that you have to have special knowledge of their abstractions to follow anything very far. Then, when you figure it out, they actually did it in a very inefficient way.

But, then, I'm an analog hardware guy who can program when he has to....

How about EE?



-tINY

[Codyjae]

Originally Posted by tINY

Have you considered anything else?

I have a dim view of "computer science" majors (programmers, mostly). It seems that they are always over-complicating things to a level that you have to have special knowledge of their abstractions to follow anything very far. Then, when you figure it out, they actually did it in a very inefficient way.

But, then, I'm an analog hardware guy who can program when he has to....

How about EE?

EE?


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[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Codyjae

EE?


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Electrical Engineering, im majoring in that, love it! but its definitely hardware oriented, and you know getting your hands dirty, and smoking solder fumes, etc... something that most software guys are not very fond of.

Im planning on going to grad school for a masters in design or something like that. Electrical engineering is the closest career/major to audio, close to audio on the other side is music. So, music + audio + EE is where its at!

Although to be fair, EE is different to what the audio electronics gurus know, I mean EE will teach you theory and all but theres a lot of audio electronics and such that is not part of any school program that I know, specially nowadays were everything is more digital oriented, analog is left a bit aside. But it gives you great basis for further understanding.

[Tallowah]

I'll trod off the beaten path here a bit.... DO WHATEVER INTERESTS YOU THE MOST!!!! None of us will have to live with the decision, YOU WILL! I have MANY friends who work in fields they absolutely loathe and they all share 1 thing in common... They are all unhappy!

That said, I'm inclined to agree with everyone regarding your "thought's" on switching. If you are considering switching for the sake of more income, DON'T!

I would only consider a switch if you absolutely HATE what you're doing.


`

[JohnRoberts]

Unless you are independently wealthy it is prudent to pursue a merchantable skill. You can make decent money if you rise to the top of any profession. If not, it is wise to consider supply and demand. there are always more people who want to make a living in the music business than it can comfortably support.

Computer programming and even EE jobs are at risk of becoming commodity skills serviced by Duleep in Bangalore, or Kwan in Guang Dong.

You need to A) find something you like to do, and B) something that people will pay you to do. It may be hard to know exactly what that is at a young age, so now at least pick up basic knowledge that will give you a leg up after you decide. In fact your ultimate occupation may not have been invented yet.

Math and Physics will never become obsolete.

JR

PS: I don't have a college degree so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

Unless you are independently wealthy it is prudent to pursue a merchantable skill. You can make decent money if you rise to the top of any profession. If not, it is wise to consider supply and demand. there are always more people who want to make a living in the music business than it can comfortably support.

Computer programming and even EE jobs are at risk of becoming commodity skills serviced by Duleep in Bangalore, or Kwan in Guang Dong.

You need to A) find something you like to do, and B) something that people will pay you to do. It may be hard to know exactly what that is at a young age, so now at least pick up basic knowledge that will give you a leg up after you decide. In fact your ultimate occupation may not have been invented yet.

Math and Physics will never become obsolete.

JR

PS: I don't have a college degree so take my advice with a grain of salt.

You are right John, however if merchantable skills is what the OP is looking at, math and physics are not the best to get there. IF money is what you are after, becoming a lawyer, or such profession is the way to go.

I decided at an early age that I didnt want to starve to death but I wasnt willing to become a lawyer or such, working at an office all day, wearing a suit, doing something boring that I hate etc... you get the picture. So a balance is where its at, a balance between both scenarios is a good spot.

You can always try an pursue a career in audio, I have, till this day my income comes from audio, I studied a 4 year major in audio before going into EE school, I dedicated my entire life to learning the audio skills and trade (and still am), but Its not a stable profession, somedays youll have plenty of work and money, and somedays youll be praying to god to throw you a bone, overall I cant complain, but its the long run that bothers me. It may be ok when you are in your 20s or 30s but what will happen when you are 40 or 50 or 60, what if at some point you want to marry and have children, will it still be ok that your income depends on a coin toss?

And money aside, audio engineering is a very exhausting life style, It may look great from a hobby perspective, but as with everything, things change when they become a job. Some may disagree but my colleagues and I, all have to go through intense and long sessions that end up early on the morning, I wear earplugs while recording because musicians like to feel the music, but even with earplugs at some point being countless hours in front of a pair of speakers sucks, in short, you have to work countless hours, most of the time it will not be from 9 to 5, and most of the time it will be under pressure. Again, I dont know how my body will handle all this abuse when im older.

Another thing to consider, regarless of audio or not, is having a backup plan. Audio depends totally on your ears, what if someday you loose hearing on one ear due to something very common like an infection?

Let me give you an example: my father is a dentist, years ago while opening a coke bottle, the metal cap blowed off and was propelled directly into his eye, during years he got several surgical procedures and he was in great risk of loosing his eye. A dentist without good eyesight is not a good dentist, my father described to me once his fear of not being able to work anymore.

Even if computer science or EE are at risk of being a commodity, at least you can open up a newspaper and look for jobs related to it, something that you cant do with audio (at least not on a normal basis). Ive still, to this day have yet to see an ad that goes like "Senior Mix engineer requested for major recording studio", in any case the audio related or studio job ads I've seen, all request something different, they ask for either an EE as inhouse tech, or theyll request a marketing major studio manager, not an audio engineer.

[tINY]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

Computer programming and even EE jobs are at risk of becoming commodity skills serviced by Duleep in Bangalore, or Kwan in Guang Dong.

I see that in the programming model (though a lot of them are imported to the states to be close to corporate for various reasons).

WIth EE, there is still time - if you are good. The quality of electronics engineering in Asia is still spotty and generally not great (good enough for lots of things). But, electronics engineers here in the states seem to be headed to the same state.

A good knowledge of audio hardware gives you a leg up in a lot of analog design and measurement - but jobs where those skills are highly valued seem to be pretty thin world-wide now.




-tINY

[enginefire]

While you are debating switching your major, start a little business, something you can hussle without much stress and not take away too much from your studies. find something that people like for $1.50 at the store and would buy one in a minute if they had the change. Buy 100 of these for $1 a piece and then bring them to people and sell them for $2, its delivery right? They dont have to go to the store and they get it right now. You just turned $100 into $200. cash flow is nice, next figure out something that will pay you residuals.

For your education consider the follow "facts" aka my humble opinions :

A computer science degree can get you a job that pays nice money. You are going to be working for someone else, likely have overtime unpaid (white collar), and be employees at places that want to keep you employeed. You can buy gear and keep the audio as hobby, or you can work in IT for a while save your cash, then employ yourself using your it skills at independent contractor rates (your salary x 4). Then you would have capital to build your studio and a part time job that pays like your old full time job. This part time job doing IT will also consist of a lot of "unpaid overtime" but at least it's you getting the bread and not someone else.

An important fact to consider is that if you spend all day at work infront of a computer, it is not healthy to then go and sit infront of another computer to work on your music. Demand a treadmill workstation from the get go!

Alternatively you can switch and study recording engineering. a pretty limited field if you want to work on music rather than audio. And those audio jobs are harder and harder to come by and lots of under employeed audio engineers will be competing with you for them. And at the end of the day your are still working for someone else and their interpretation of the value of your time (which is to be recognized as invaluable).

Third option is to study music, play and instrument and study engineering. This can open more doors as producer or composer or creating music for licensing. Still a rough road.

A few options but only you can know whats right fir



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[Codyjae]

Originally Posted by enginefire

While you are debating switching your major, start a little business, something you can hussle without much stress and not take away too much from your studies. find something that people like for $1.50 at the store and would buy one in a minute if they had the change. Buy 100 of these for $1 a piece and then bring them to people and sell them for $2, its delivery right? They dont have to go to the store and they get it right now. You just turned $100 into $200. cash flow is nice, next figure out something that will pay you residuals.




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What kind of thing is that? Your plans are very sound and make a lot of sense. Thank you. Only distribution I can think of like that is well, drugs. Haha

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[JohnRoberts]

It is difficult to answer questions like this, instead of truly giving you unbiased advice, we end up rationalizing our own life decisions.

---------

Of course dealing drugs is a rather risky business proposition. The downside for most legal business start-ups is losing money and time, selling drugs could end up with jail time or worse. That said, lets inspect the fundamental economic principle involved. How do you buy something cheap and sell it for a profit. You add value, either by making product available in smaller quantities or closer to the end user. This profit from value added is the engine that drives every successful business.

Business and economics are also important basic tools to acquire, IMO.

I was not suggesting that you major in math or physics, only that you learn those basics. It can always come in handy fixing your car, or doing plumbing repairs.


JR

[enginefire]

No dealing drugs is not a good business. Risk is very high (jail and/or death) and like any "job" there is a ladder that has to be climbed, that particular ladder leads un a downward direction from being currently enrolled in higher education in an economic sector that is still upward in your geographic region.

Think more like donuts. Instead of having to drive to krispy kream to buy a half dozen donuts for say $1.50, you set up with people in your neighborhood to bring it to them. save on logistics by using a bike, get your exercise while making money, as the time you save is invaluable and life is great as long as you have your health.

Take Jim Williams for example, he uses his skills to provide value added service to sound enthusiasts. I can only imagine that all his free advice has affected his bottom line, so I have to give thanks to him for his generosity, because I have learned to do many things that I would not have been able to afford to get done.

Be creative and look for an opportunity. Don't throw away your current education, maybe modify the focus of your study in your field to something that suits you better and interests you more while still having the promise of a good return on your investment of your time and money.

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[enginefire]

Ok here is one for you. It might not apply to your area or there may be someone already doing this so do your market research.

Look at hdmi cables. Big box stores sell these for big bucks, like $50 for a "high speed" hdmi cable if it's long or whatever. Personally I don't think the "quality" of an hdmi cable makes that much of a difference, it's all digital right? Like a $100 FireWire cable is going to make or break the sound quality of your studio or some snake oil non sense like that.

Now check online like monoprice or better yet find a distributor direct from China. The cables that do the same job imho are much cheaper. Buy a selection and then resell them on craigslist or kijiji or however you find effective. It will generate profit (in theory, you would have to judge for yourself from your own experience).

Basically no matter what if you want to succeed you have to be smart and work hard. If you depend on a boss to provide you a job you are at his or her mercy, God forbid they downsize or outsource.

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[MikeInOttawa]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

Computer programming and even EE jobs are at risk of becoming commodity skills serviced by Duleep in Bangalore, or Kwan in Guang Dong.

+1

I'd shy away from studying something that can be outsourced.

Build roads, bridges, buildings (i.e. study civil engineering). Can't outsource them.......yet.

[dualflip]

Ive come to the conclution that 99% of the people that earn a LOT of cash, have to do something dishonest, as little or harmless as it may be, most had to lie about something, or had to pay favors, etc....

The remaining 1% of them may be true and honest. Im not trying to derail here but seriously, for instance look at Mac, they stole from Xerox, Microsoft stole from Mac, the facebook guy screwed some people and even had to pay some retribution. Yet these are the people the world admire, just because they made shitloads of money, who cares if they screwed someone over along their path to fame and glory ? the means justify the end right? unless you really do something like killing someone to become rich, most people will overlook those things and worship you, and even some people will not care if you killed someone, as long as you are rich and you worked your way through it, they will buy you autobiography.

So even if dealing drugs is indeed very risky and will screw up your life, its not very different from say what a politican has to do, the amount of crap is just unbelivable, and may be even more risky than a dealers job.

Bottomline, hard and honest work will take you far, but most of the time you wont get the big bucks, if you after lots of money, either EE or computer science are not the safest career paths. In fact it applies to any engineering degree, if you want money go into politics or marketing or whatever, if you want to be in the music business, become an A&R of an important record label.

Engineers, we are just the labor, the upper levels look down at us as the little ants who keep things running, but they wouldnt give a rats ass about us, and im ok with that, I decided long time ago that I rather be doing something i love, without starving of course, whilst still being able to sleep peacefuly at night.

[kevinkace]

Here's my story & perspective.

Story - I went to University for CompSci for 2 years then dropped out to work in the family business. Later decided to complete a 1-year audio program, which I did with mixed feelings. 'Worked' in the 'audio industry' for about 1.5 years (music instrument retail the product specialist for Steinberg Ca). Moved to Seattle and eventually got great stable work in web development. I never stopped working in audio, and have recently began putting together all the equipment needed to operate a mobile recording rig. One day I might give up on the stability and financial freedom of working in the tech sector, but not quite yet.

Perspective - Good, well paying jobs can be hard to get, especially right out of college or in the audio industry. People can change careers. One of my teachers from the Harris Institute I attended was a banker for years while operating a mobile recording rig on the side, which he now does full time and very successfully.

[enginefire]

+1 dualflip very accurate observations. Nice to be counted in the other 1% for sure.

By any means necessary, I'll stratch your back, you scratched mine, there are no rules as long as I win... These are all things people tell themselves to justify acting on their desires despite in someway being aware that what they are doing is wrong.

Doing what you love is best, and doing it for yourself imo keeps you in control and not subjected to another (richer) persons values (or lack there of).

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[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Ive come to the conclution that 99% of the people that earn a LOT of cash, have to do something dishonest, as little or harmless as it may be, most had to lie about something, or had to pay favors, etc....

The remaining 1% of them may be true and honest. Im not trying to derail here but seriously, for instance look at Mac, they stole from Xerox, Microsoft stole from Mac, the facebook guy screwed some people and even had to pay some retribution. Yet these are the people the world admire, just because they made shitloads of money, who cares if they screwed someone over along their path to fame and glory ? the means justify the end right? unless you really do something like killing someone to become rich, most people will overlook those things and worship you, and even some people will not care if you killed someone, as long as you are rich and you worked your way through it, they will buy you autobiography.

So even if dealing drugs is indeed very risky and will screw up your life, its not very different from say what a politican has to do, the amount of crap is just unbelivable, and may be even more risky than a dealers job.

Bottomline, hard and honest work will take you far, but most of the time you wont get the big bucks, if you after lots of money, either EE or computer science are not the safest career paths. In fact it applies to any engineering degree, if you want money go into politics or marketing or whatever, if you want to be in the music business, become an A&R of an important record label.

Engineers, we are just the labor, the upper levels look down at us as the little ants who keep things running, but they wouldnt give a rats ass about us, and im ok with that, I decided long time ago that I rather be doing something i love, without starving of course, whilst still being able to sleep peacefuly at night.

Not a very rosy view of how the world works.

Allow me to suggest a slightly different viewpoint. Employee compensation generally reflects the value you create for your employer. Sometimes this is linear and easy to measure, like how a good chef earns the small restaurant owner a good profit. Sometimes the cause and effect of wealth creation is not so obvious so corporate politics can influence how profits get divided up.

Significant paydays come from significant wealth creation and this rarely comes from the direct product of one man's actual labor, but from creating something that can be replicated using low cost labor or better yet a duplicating machine (like record a hit record, or write a best seller). So the real secret to wealth creating is figuring out how to multiply your "one man" effort to create multipled wealth.

One man with a shovel can only dig a modest sized hole. Invent the back-hoe and you can dig huge holes faster and easier. A great chef can only earn the profit from the one restaurant where he cooks, while a smart (and good) chef creates a chain of namesake restaurants so he can multiply the wealth he created with his brand.

Understand business so you can be a good employee (help your boss make a profit) or so you can create your own wealth on your own.

There are always opportunities around. But first, it is useful to learn the basic skills so you can be effective when you later decide what you want to do.

JR