Companies that don't provide schematics; and companies that do

Tibbon · 24th June 2006, 04:23 AM

I'd like you guys to help me start making a list of companies that do/don't provide schematics for their products. Also ones that provide calibration data, and such get extra brownie points in my book.

Some companies have put them out in the past, but may not longer release them as well, and the products that they release them for should be noted.

The use of publically released schematics and documention (or at least block diagrams!) is obvious. Even if a company currently support their product, 30 years down the line that company may no longer be available (or even after a year no longer support!) the gear. If something breaks, then fixing it becomes increasingly difficult. Even gear that is 'primarly digital' in it's nature could provide a good bit of information for how the PLL works, or at least some calibration information for when it eventually breaks. What if the phantom power goes out on your Digi001? Could you fix it without schematics? What about with? I think the latter gives you much better chances at least. Overall, schematics increase the maintence and general lifespan and overall worth of gear in the long run IMHO.

Please feel free to correct me, or update me on what is here as I am not an omniscient when it comes to manufacturers. Also please let me know if the schematics and information is only available on request. If there is enough of a mix of what is and isn't released from a company, I will split it out by their products

COMPANIES THAT PROVIDE SCHEMATICS (or the schematics are widely available)
Some of these are available only on request with a valid serial number from the company

Eventide (My 910 has more technical data than I have ever seen a delay have. Not sure about newer products)
Fender (schematics of most guitars and amps are available)
Seventh Circle Audio
Roland (older synths only as far as I know)
Akai (apparently service manuals were available at one point, i'll email to see if they still do)
Solid State Logic
Trident
Sony/MCI
Benchmark
Ampex
Studer
Otari
Neotek (original models)
Audio + Design aka Audio & Design (Recording)
UREI
Orban (although in some older gear some things were in epoxy bricks)
Manley (upon request with a serial number)
Crown
Neve
Amek
TAC
Allen-Heath
Soundcraft
Wheatstone/Audioarts
ADM (Audio Design Manufacturing)
Ward-Beck
McCurdy
Calrec
Tascam

COMPANIES THAT DO NOT PROVIDE SCHEMATICS

MOTU
Behringer
Apogee
Digidesign
Lexicon
Elektron
Roland (newer gear)
Focusrite
Sytek
DeltaLabs
Yamaha reverbs
Zvex (but provides lifetime service for free)
Klon (epoxies over parts of boards)
ARP (and they epoxied over their boards!?!?!)

Also, Thank you to Gyraf for hosting a large number of schematics at http://www.gyraf.dk/schematics/schematics.html

brianroth · 24th June 2006, 08:57 AM

Shooting from the hip/memory here:

Do/did provide:

Ampex
Studer
Otari
Neotek (original models)
Audio + Design aka Audio & Design (Recording)
UREI
Orban (although in some older gear some things were in epoxy bricks)
Manley (upon request with a serial number)
Crown
Neve
Amek
TAC
Allen-Heath
Soundcraft
Wheatstone/Audioarts
ADM (Audio Design Manufacturing)
Ward-Beck
McCurdy
Calrec
Tascam

NO schemos:

Focusrite
Sytek
DeltaLabs
Yamaha reverbs

I'll keep thinking along both lines.....

Bri

Reza · 24th June 2006, 09:38 AM

I think a lot of companies don't because they want to protect their intellectual property. Emprical Labs for example. Their Fatso would have a lot of DIYers imitating and probably competitors emulating their design if they released all the schematics.

I think that's fair enough. But you're right, that if they ever went out of business it would be unfair for them not to make all the schematics public - in the interest of people being able to maintain and fix their units.

Rez

Tibbon · 24th June 2006, 07:50 PM

Reza- While in the dying days of a company, it is probably the last thing in mind, but too bad a company almost can't have a "Will" to have all technical data released to the public in case they go bankrupt or something. Then we wouldn't have to worry about such things quite so much.

I don't mind that ZVex doesn't provide (and is very against them being at all online anywhere) schematics for his pedals (although looking inside a few was educational) because he provides a Lifetime of Service on the pedals, that's his lifetime- not yours or the pedals.

Mixermend · 24th June 2006, 10:59 PM

One of the Companies that DO NOT provide schematics - is Behringer - who seem to work from the premise that their equipment is so cheap to buy that it is not economical to repair.

My view is that all equipment used by Professionals has to be capable of being repaired in the field - so the show can go on.....!

I NEVER recommend equipment to Customers when the manufacture does not support his product with good documentation to enable service.

What manufacturers should realise that their designs can always be repaired (or copied) without schematics - it just takes longer!

Dr Bob · 25th June 2006, 04:15 AM

Benchmark was very helpful in providing schematics for an older preamp I own that they no longer support.

paully · 25th June 2006, 06:42 PM

Now there's a great subject for a 'sticky' thread. A listing of free or pay sites that offer schematics and/or manuals. I've got my own half-assed list, and a more complete reference would sure make life simpler.

EveAnna? Tim?

Best, Paul

Bob Olhsson · 26th June 2006, 12:48 AM

I would be very hesitant about depending on gear that no schematic is available for.

Tibbon · 26th June 2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I would be very hesitant about depending on gear that no schematic is available for.

Which is exactly why maybe a list like this will be able to help and influence buying decisions of other Gearslutz, and perhaps even affect the general policies on technical documentation that some of these companies have. I really hope this takes off.

amorris · 26th June 2006, 07:41 PM

berhinger probably doesnt give out shcems because they think you should just get them from the company they stole from i.e. the original designers!! ha ha!

rufus13 · 27th June 2006, 04:35 AM

RANE

Most is on the site, but I had an old version of DC-24 and SP-15, so they made and sent a photocopy from their file. I'm just a customer (who bought it used), not dealer or paying shop.

Schematic avalable for dbx 166, but not 1066, so I got the 166.

A schematic and part list/pcb locator is the single most-important piece of documentation for me to see when buying complex gear. I've got the factory service volumes for my car, and they've saved plenty of money for me.

Karl

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Should companies provide schematics?	Tibbon	Geekslutz forum	39	12th December 2005 05:02 PM
What are the A/D D/A companies??	eligit	So much gear, so little time!	51	16th August 2005 02:04 PM
Who Owns Who? (Companies)	Soliton	Geekslutz forum	8	8th July 2005 04:50 PM
Are There Two Jensen Companies?	Midlandmorgan	So much gear, so little time!	3	3rd March 2005 02:53 AM
getting endorsements from companies	Marshall Simmons	So much gear, so little time!	15	20th June 2003 11:11 PM

24th June 2006, 04:23 AM	#1
Tibbon Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Boston/MA Posts: 4,132	Companies that don't provide schematics; and companies that do I'd like you guys to help me start making a list of companies that do/don't provide schematics for their products. Also ones that provide calibration data, and such get extra brownie points in my book. Some companies have put them out in the past, but may not longer release them as well, and the products that they release them for should be noted. The use of publically released schematics and documention (or at least block diagrams!) is obvious. Even if a company currently support their product, 30 years down the line that company may no longer be available (or even after a year no longer support!) the gear. If something breaks, then fixing it becomes increasingly difficult. Even gear that is 'primarly digital' in it's nature could provide a good bit of information for how the PLL works, or at least some calibration information for when it eventually breaks. What if the phantom power goes out on your Digi001? Could you fix it without schematics? What about with? I think the latter gives you much better chances at least. Overall, schematics increase the maintence and general lifespan and overall worth of gear in the long run IMHO. Please feel free to correct me, or update me on what is here as I am not an omniscient when it comes to manufacturers. Also please let me know if the schematics and information is only available on request. If there is enough of a mix of what is and isn't released from a company, I will split it out by their products COMPANIES THAT PROVIDE SCHEMATICS (or the schematics are widely available) Some of these are available only on request with a valid serial number from the company Eventide (My 910 has more technical data than I have ever seen a delay have. Not sure about newer products) Fender (schematics of most guitars and amps are available) Seventh Circle Audio Roland (older synths only as far as I know) Akai (apparently service manuals were available at one point, i'll email to see if they still do) Solid State Logic Trident Sony/MCI Benchmark Ampex Studer Otari Neotek (original models) Audio + Design aka Audio & Design (Recording) UREI Orban (although in some older gear some things were in epoxy bricks) Manley (upon request with a serial number) Crown Neve Amek TAC Allen-Heath Soundcraft Wheatstone/Audioarts ADM (Audio Design Manufacturing) Ward-Beck McCurdy Calrec Tascam COMPANIES THAT DO NOT PROVIDE SCHEMATICS MOTU Behringer Apogee Digidesign Lexicon Elektron Roland (newer gear) Focusrite Sytek DeltaLabs Yamaha reverbs Zvex (but provides lifetime service for free) Klon (epoxies over parts of boards) ARP (and they epoxied over their boards!?!?!) Also, Thank you to Gyraf for hosting a large number of schematics at http://www.gyraf.dk/schematics/schematics.html

24th June 2006, 08:57 AM	#2
brianroth Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 1,022	Shooting from the hip/memory here: Do/did provide: Ampex Studer Otari Neotek (original models) Audio + Design aka Audio & Design (Recording) UREI Orban (although in some older gear some things were in epoxy bricks) Manley (upon request with a serial number) Crown Neve Amek TAC Allen-Heath Soundcraft Wheatstone/Audioarts ADM (Audio Design Manufacturing) Ward-Beck McCurdy Calrec Tascam NO schemos: Focusrite Sytek DeltaLabs Yamaha reverbs I'll keep thinking along both lines..... Bri __________________ Brian Roth Technical Services Oklahoma City, OK www.BrianRoth.com

26th June 2006, 12:48 AM	#8
Bob Olhsson Motown legend Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Songwriter Gulch, Nashville TN Posts: 5,467	I would be very hesitant about depending on gear that no schematic is available for. __________________ Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233 Bob's room 615 385-8051 Music Industry 2.0

27th June 2006, 04:35 AM	#11
rufus13 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 490	very good service dept. RANE Most is on the site, but I had an old version of DC-24 and SP-15, so they made and sent a photocopy from their file. I'm just a customer (who bought it used), not dealer or paying shop. Schematic avalable for dbx 166, but not 1066, so I got the 166. A schematic and part list/pcb locator is the single most-important piece of documentation for me to see when buying complex gear. I've got the factory service volumes for my car, and they've saved plenty of money for me. Karl

24th June 2006, 09:38 AM	#3
Reza Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 409	I think a lot of companies don't because they want to protect their intellectual property. Emprical Labs for example. Their Fatso would have a lot of DIYers imitating and probably competitors emulating their design if they released all the schematics. I think that's fair enough. But you're right, that if they ever went out of business it would be unfair for them not to make all the schematics public - in the interest of people being able to maintain and fix their units. Rez

24th June 2006, 07:50 PM	#4
Tibbon Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Boston/MA Posts: 4,132	Reza- While in the dying days of a company, it is probably the last thing in mind, but too bad a company almost can't have a "Will" to have all technical data released to the public in case they go bankrupt or something. Then we wouldn't have to worry about such things quite so much. I don't mind that ZVex doesn't provide (and is very against them being at all online anywhere) schematics for his pedals (although looking inside a few was educational) because he provides a Lifetime of Service on the pedals, that's his lifetime- not yours or the pedals.

24th June 2006, 10:59 PM	#5
Mixermend Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Exeter UK Posts: 52	One of the Companies that DO NOT provide schematics - is Behringer - who seem to work from the premise that their equipment is so cheap to buy that it is not economical to repair. My view is that all equipment used by Professionals has to be capable of being repaired in the field - so the show can go on.....! I NEVER recommend equipment to Customers when the manufacture does not support his product with good documentation to enable service. What manufacturers should realise that their designs can always be repaired (or copied) without schematics - it just takes longer!

25th June 2006, 04:15 AM	#6
Dr Bob Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Storrs. CT Posts: 56	Benchmark was very helpful in providing schematics for an older preamp I own that they no longer support.

25th June 2006, 06:42 PM	#7
paully Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 540	Now there's a great subject for a 'sticky' thread. A listing of free or pay sites that offer schematics and/or manuals. I've got my own half-assed list, and a more complete reference would sure make life simpler. EveAnna? Tim? Best, Paul

26th June 2006, 07:41 PM	#10
amorris Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: winter park Posts: 225	berhinger probably doesnt give out shcems because they think you should just get them from the company they stole from i.e. the original designers!! ha ha!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: