The GND prong snapped on my power cable. Problem?

[PRH]

In my view, yes. You should be worried and replace the cable or the connector.

If the equipment was designed with a chassis ground connection for safety, then this ground is now effectively lifted.

[Ike Zimbel]

+1. You can just buy a replacement plug at the hardware store.
Best
Ike

[JohnRoberts]

Replace it.

JR

[nyproaudio]

Def-initely.

[nms]

Alright.. it's done! I really should have done that sooner. There were no warning signs though til I changed from a TRS to XLR cable to a properly wired TS to XLR. That's when 60hz came out to play.

Thanks guys

[Warren Beck]

Not a serious issue at all.

Things will continue to work safely. If you are in a union shoppe then the device is not to code and thus there lies the only real issue.

Sans the ground pin the item is floating. Often cutting the pin eliminates hum/loop issues.

Really not an issue.

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by Warren Beck

Not a serious issue at all.

Things will continue to work safely. If you are in a union shoppe then the device is not to code and thus there lies the only real issue.

Sans the ground pin the item is floating. Often cutting the pin eliminates hum/loop issues.

Really not an issue.

Guess that's why people carry insurance...... incase someone gets seriously shocked or electrocuted?



Replace the male cap to a grounding type (Which by your last post I think you already have).

[S2udio]

Originally Posted by Warren Beck

Not a serious issue at all.

Really not an issue.

Oh indeed it is an issue,..........and if you don't understand why then,
You really should'nt be giving misleading advice !!

Originally Posted by Warren Beck

. Often cutting the pin eliminates hum/loop issues.

Oh dear Oh dear !!!

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by Warren Beck

Not a serious issue at all.

Things will continue to work safely. If you are in a union shoppe then the device is not to code and thus there lies the only real issue.

Sans the ground pin the item is floating. Often cutting the pin eliminates hum/loop issues.

Really not an issue.

The ground pin is an active component of human safety system. Such products are only single insulated, so a primary insulation failure is shunted through the safety ground path to short the mains voltage and open the mains fuse/breaker from over current. Without that safety ground path, a primary failure will charge the chassis to life threatening voltage, and the current drawn by a meat puppet will not take out the fuse/breaker.

Note: 2 wire line cord consumer products use double insulated primaries, so a single insulation failure is not life threatening.

JR

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

The ground pin is an active component of human safety system.
JR

ha ha ha ha
nice

[cathode]

Originally Posted by Warren Beck

Not a serious issue at all.

Things will continue to work safely. If you are in a union shoppe then the device is not to code and thus there lies the only real issue.

Sans the ground pin the item is floating. Often cutting the pin eliminates hum/loop issues.

Really not an issue.

If the synth is attached to a grounded destination via the interconnecting cable (no cut shields), then it is grounded. Yes, GROUNDED.

Another connection to earth via a 3 prong power cable will guarantee a ground loop. Yes, HUM.

Now lets advocate safety but find any studio that's been around for a few decades and you will find a box of ground lifts.

If you really want to be concerned about safety, measure each and every piece of gear you plan to use for AC leakage. Take all necessary measures to reduce it, possibly employing power isolation transformers.

[ritelec]

Warren,

sorry for the s*it storm I may have brought upon you.


Safety first............hum second

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by cathode

Another connection to earth via a 3 prong power cable will guarantee a ground loop. Yes, HUM.

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by cathode

If the synth is attached to a grounded destination via the interconnecting cable (no cut shields), then it is grounded. Yes, GROUNDED.

no thats bonded.not grounded

edit.......

actually it's not bonded........

you have a hot and return...........(2 wires)........the 3rd wire goes to ground (and chassis)..remove the ground (chassis) the hot and return are floating. If either come in contact with the chassis (now that that chassis has been disconnected) the chassis will become the hot or the return wire....and if someone gets caught between that chassis and a real ground............???

Some of these units also bond the ground and return in the unit themselves (don't think it's right if they do but if you open somethings up, they do at times......then you have 2 returns.the return and the ground in parallel .............

gotta walk away from this one.



thanks for the fun.



start making changes??? make sure your liability insurance is payed for and up to date..............

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by ritelec

no thats bonded.not grounded

edit.......

In fact probably not truly "bonded". Safety agencies specify a modest voltage rise while passing several tens of amps, to insure the mains circuit breaker opens and that exposed chassis voltages even while passing tens of amps do not rise to dangerous potentials. Many puny instrument cords will not do well with tens of amps in ground fault current

Properly designed modern gear ignores ground loops (google pin 1 problem for explanation).

That said there is lots of old legacy studio gear that is not well designed, so A) could hum from line cord grounds, and B) could sting you if floated... because the primary insulation is old and tired.

Who hasn't felt a tingle from touching the old floated MCI 24T while touching a properly grounded console with your other hand.

JR

[S2udio]

If you don't know what it is...Read

Electrical bonding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[S2udio]

Originally Posted by cathode

Now lets advocate safety but find any studio that's been around for a few decades and you will find a box of ground lifts.

Maybe on patchbays but....mains...if you wanna keep from being sued ....NFW

Isolation transformer installations also have a valid earth fault loop !

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

Safety agencies specify a modest voltage rise while passing several tens of amps,

wow......are you talking inrush current..........if so lets talk 10,000 to 45,000 amps...............

OP hook the ground back up.

Anyone wants to remove a ground. Knock yourself out.

Again for the elimination of hum.......knock your self out,
there are aproved and safer methods to do so...not as cheep as a pliers and removing a ground. but safe and affective.

in rush current, dude.........
people get vaporized, blown up.....burn't,,,,,,dead,,,,,,from it.


voltage and current flow............do some googleing before you or others decide to wire, engineer equipment.

The manufacturer covered there ars.....and also employ pros to develop and manufacture this stuff.

Remove that ground......

do some google on electrical burns and electrocutions.......

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by S2udio

If you don't know what it is...Read

Electrical bonding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know what it is......
Go here and all who think they know about electricity........

http://forums.mikeholt.com/

[nms]

That GND absolutely needed to be fixed. When I soldered a new cable in it grounded the synth properly. Prior to this there was a GND hum in the synth when no audio cables were plugged into it. Checking test points with a scope showed it clearly. With a grounded audio cable plugged in it would go away but it had a fierce hum with any cable that had the GND lifted at one end.

[ritelec]

thanks for the clarification and update.

don't hurt or kill yourself or others gents.

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by ritelec

wow......are you talking inrush current..........if so lets talk 10,000 to 45,000 amps...............

No I'm talking about the UL safety ground bonding test.

Not inrush current (I think) but fault current from a mains insulation failure, so the full current available from the mains outlet, until the fuse or breaker trips.

I recall in one product having to beef up a PCB safety ground trace to survive the 50A or so test. it only needs to survive the current for several seconds, just long enough to reliably take out the mains branch fuse/breaker.

10,000 to 45,000 amps for any duration seems more than most line cords could survive, let alone being a lot more amps than the service available in most buildings (hundreds of amps not ten thousands of amps). Your numbers sound like a transient from some extremely short duration event.

OP hook the ground back up.

Anyone wants to remove a ground. Knock yourself out.

Again for the elimination of hum.......knock your self out,
there are aproved and safer methods to do so...not as cheep as a pliers and removing a ground. but safe and affective.

in rush current, dude.........
people get vaporized, blown up.....burn't,,,,,,dead,,,,,,from it.


voltage and current flow............do some googleing before you or others decide to wire, engineer equipment.

The manufacturer covered there ars.....and also employ pros to develop and manufacture this stuff.

Remove that ground......

do some google on electrical burns and electrocutions.......

JR

[nms]

Originally Posted by ritelec

thanks for the clarification and update.
don't hurt or kill yourself or others gents.

heheh.. well I did mention I fixed it 4 days ago. If Ike & JR say replace it there'll be no argument from me.

It's a huge asset having good techs hanging out in here. I've been getting better and better at tackling my gear but it's incredibly valuable to be able to pop in here and clarify something when needed.

Thanks guys. Always much appreciated.

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

10,000 to 45,000 amps for any duration seems more than most line cords could survive, let alone being a lot more amps than the service available in most buildings (hundreds of amps not ten thousands of amps). Your numbers sound like a transient from some extremely short duration event.


JR

research it ...your defending yourself.

Gear to the equipment rms ground fault ratings are one thing.........your suggestion was to get rid of earth.

stop suggesting.......

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by ritelec

stop suggesting.......

make beautiful music

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

available in most buildings (hundreds of amps not ten thousands of amps). Your numbers sound like a transient from some extremely short duration event.


JR

inrush current .........research it and your 15 amp breaker.....10,000 amp
enough for me,
enough don't kill yourself or advice others.........


got milk?
got ground?

don't play games.

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by ritelec

research it ...your defending yourself.

Gear to the equipment rms ground fault ratings are one thing.........your suggestion was to get rid of earth.

stop suggesting.......

Research what? This thread is about safety ground on product line cords.

I stand by my suggestion that he replace his line cord, but apparently he already did. So my work here is done. .

JR

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

Research what? This thread is about safety ground on product line cords.

I stand by my suggestion that he replace his line cord, but apparently he already did. So my work here is done. .

JR

mine too..........

[nms]

Precisely. You know something's wrong when you scope a test point and see a big 60hz hum that shouldn't be there.

Simple open & shut case. GND prong broken? Replace the power cord!