Unbalanced gear to balanced output (patchbay)

HSLand · 3rd February 2012

I've got a mixer that accepts both balanced and unbalanced connections. Some of my gear is balanced, some of it is not. I'm going to run 8 channels of balanced TRS from my sampler to my patchbay, then balanced from my patchbay to mixer, so no problem there.

However, since it's permanently connected on channels 1-8, someday I may want to run an unbalanced piece of gear into channels 1-8 which are balanced, so there will be an unbalanced-balanced via the patchbay. Under the rare occasion, there may also be a balanced-unbalanced thing going on.

I'm going to permanently connect channels 1-8 from my patchbay to my mixer as balanced, and channels 9-16 as unbalanced. I've read to just no worry about it and the difference is that if there's any unbalanced signal/cable in the chain, the signal is unbalanced.

My question is, is that REALLY the only difference, or should I keep balanced balanced and unbalanced unbalanced at all costs?

Matt Syson · 4th February 2012

Hi
Wire it all balanced and only unbalance it at the connectors where you are forced to be unbalanced.
Matt S

mexicola · 5th February 2012

If you have balanced gear, keep the connections balanced. If you don't: best case scenario, unbalancing the signal will cost you 6dB in level...worst case scenario, you plug something with transformer balanced outputs into an unbalanced input with a cable that leaves the "-" half of the signal floating (ie unterminated), and you end up with a massive reduction in level and a signal that sounds like an AM radio (but that's something you only need to worry about with gear that's transformer balanced. Electronically balanced gear will just give you a 6dB drop in level whether or not the unbalanced connection is properly terminated. However, I believe that leaving a floating connection on an elec balanced input will wreak havoc with your CMRR spec...I could be wrong on that.).
I'd go with Matt's recommendation - only use the unbalanced connections when you know the gear you're plugging in is unbalanced.

defenestration · 5th February 2012

some good info I found useful

Sound System Interconnection

essentially there is no one-size-fits-all and you will have to carefully test all of your gear (if you want optimum performance)

a good amount of high quality transformer iron hanging around is very useful also

3rd February 2012	#1
HSLand Gear addict Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 447 Thread Starter	Unbalanced gear to balanced output (patchbay) I've got a mixer that accepts both balanced and unbalanced connections. Some of my gear is balanced, some of it is not. I'm going to run 8 channels of balanced TRS from my sampler to my patchbay, then balanced from my patchbay to mixer, so no problem there. However, since it's permanently connected on channels 1-8, someday I may want to run an unbalanced piece of gear into channels 1-8 which are balanced, so there will be an unbalanced-balanced via the patchbay. Under the rare occasion, there may also be a balanced-unbalanced thing going on. I'm going to permanently connect channels 1-8 from my patchbay to my mixer as balanced, and channels 9-16 as unbalanced. I've read to just no worry about it and the difference is that if there's any unbalanced signal/cable in the chain, the signal is unbalanced. My question is, is that REALLY the only difference, or should I keep balanced balanced and unbalanced unbalanced at all costs?

4th February 2012	#2
Matt Syson Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 4,822	Hi Wire it all balanced and only unbalance it at the connectors where you are forced to be unbalanced. Matt S __________________ Matt S www.mseaudio.co.uk

5th February 2012	#3
mexicola Lives for gear Joined: May 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 914	If you have balanced gear, keep the connections balanced. If you don't: best case scenario, unbalancing the signal will cost you 6dB in level...worst case scenario, you plug something with transformer balanced outputs into an unbalanced input with a cable that leaves the "-" half of the signal floating (ie unterminated), and you end up with a massive reduction in level and a signal that sounds like an AM radio (but that's something you only need to worry about with gear that's transformer balanced. Electronically balanced gear will just give you a 6dB drop in level whether or not the unbalanced connection is properly terminated. However, I believe that leaving a floating connection on an elec balanced input will wreak havoc with your CMRR spec...I could be wrong on that.). I'd go with Matt's recommendation - only use the unbalanced connections when you know the gear you're plugging in is unbalanced. __________________ There's nothing rock and roll about 1's and 0's. Recording engineers are not yes-men. www.regularjohnrecording.com

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5th February 2012	#4
defenestration Gear nut Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 107	some good info I found useful Sound System Interconnection essentially there is no one-size-fits-all and you will have to carefully test all of your gear (if you want optimum performance) a good amount of high quality transformer iron hanging around is very useful also