NOT Killing Musicians

[JustAnotherUser]

So I'm running sound for a show that has "water features." Basically, at one moment in the show, the guy is standing in an inflatable swimming pool with a guitar and a headset mic. Obviously, I'm doing everything wirelessly with all the transmitters in little waterproof bags, because I don't want to go to jail for killing people. But I thought I'd pose the question, even for purely hypothetical reasons: If you had to do this with wired mics, guitars, etc. how would you go about doing it?

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherUser

....But I thought I'd pose the question, even for purely hypothetical reasons: If you had to do this with wired mics, guitars, etc. how would you go about doing it?

yeah, the Fire Marshall, Electrical Inspector, your insurance adjuster and OSHA want to know.

[ripple_fx1]

People (real people - not musicians) die in water + electricity situations when that water is connected to ground - like a lake, an in-ground pool, a tub with metal plumbing, or a damp slab of concrete. If your guitarist is standing in distilled water in a plastic tub on a wooden stage on a rubber floor, he's well insulated. Avoid the path to ground, and you can stuff an entire band into the pool. But ground is relentless and innovative in it's quest to complete the path, and even a high impedance path is deadly.

[JohnRoberts]

Wireless is the way to go, if it was my ass in the pool..

We had a long thread here a few years inspecting cap coupling the ground for a guitar, with a cap large enough to not hum, but small enough to not stop the human heart, it can be done.

For microphones you need complete transformer isolation which is possible, and ideally no ground which means no phantom mics.

While safety agencies insist on robust low impedance grounds strong enough to open fuses, humans are often killed when they get between a hot feed and a safety ground so I would be careful about even safety grounds, but in general you want any stray faults to hit robust ground first and not go "through" the meat puppet.

Wireless seems pretty safe and is not as expensive as it used to be.


JR

[Jim Williams]

You will need waterproof wireless, don't know if they make that stuff.

[JustAnotherUser]

Thanks all. Remember I'm not actually going to do this. The show has already started and I'm definitely doing everything wirelessly. This is all purely hypothetical. I'm very much aware that electricity kills.

But...As a wannabe electronics nerd, I'm just curious; if you had to do it, what would you do? Isolation transformers, opto-isolators, fibre optics, etc? Say you've got a guy playing guitar in a swimming pool plugged into a stack of amps, how would you make it idiot proof?

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherUser

If you had to do this with wired mics, guitars, etc. how would you go about doing it?

I would refuse to do it...plain and simple. Even if the next guy did it
and nothing happened....it doesn't matter. It only needs to go badly once to ruin life for numerous people.

[Torea]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherUser

...Say you've got a guy playing guitar in a swimming pool plugged into a stack of amps, how would you make it idiot proof?

Get rid of the guitarist... Sorry, I had to take the bait...



I'm pretty sure I know a guy from high school who should know by experience by now. He was always trying show his macho side by "proving" safety things wrong. And I always wondered why he had spiky hair without gel...

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

You will need waterproof wireless, don't know if they make that stuff.

non-lubricated condoms. DPA makes a lav that will work under six inches of water.

[Jazz Noise]

The guitarist would probably hate you, but his setup would also have to be wireless. As would bass. Even the drum mics if possible - or have them trigger MIDI pads, MIDI cables already obviously using opto couplers. Or a combination.

But what about keyboards? Even using MIDI to prevent the computer surging him, the keys have a PSU. Bag em?

[ripple_fx1]

a connection to the guitar featuring a flow of electrons is vetoed.
light pipe or RF.

[LeeYoo]

How about using RCD's on every device connected to mains power.

Residual-current device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

arlec RCD PLUG IN SINGLE SAFETY SWITCH - Electrical Hardware - Cords & Powerboards - RCD & Safety Switches - Mitre 10 MEGA

This situation is not very different from using powertools in wet areas, or construction sites.
Get the advice of a local electrician.

[tsvisser]

Substitute mineral oil for water. It is non-conductive. It is mostly non-flammable, at least under normal temperature conditions. It could burn if exposed to very high temperatures, not sure if those conditions could be met and sustained in a concert environment or not, but I'm sure there are other non-conductive flame-safe liquids out there.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

Substitute mineral oil for water. ....

hahahahahahahahahahahahaaa......, yeah that is a safe choice.....

[audiotech]

Keep repeating to yourself, "do not kill the talent".

Dennis

[Boschen]

Mineral oil is hella slippery.

It's also a strong laxative if ingested.

This could get interesting.

[manysounds]

Originally Posted by Boschen

Mineral oil is hella slippery.

It's also a strong laxative if ingested.

This could get interesting.

It's a crappy suggestion. A really loose idea?

[Matt Syson]

Hi
Some of the sensible plans have been suggested of which 'wireless' is the most obvious way to go. Many keyboards and other gear could be modified for battery use with relatively little effort.
However as an observation death can improve the bands revenue no end (OK perhaps not all at once), just make sure they recorded some 'unreleased' material first.
Matt S

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

if you think about it, there are an awful lot of musicians (and that phrase could be inverted...) maybe it is time to cull the herd. It would make for some very entertaining theater, ... a poll of water with a foot of oil on top.... and you could have auditions every day for years and still not hurt the species.

[Jazz Noise]

Gearslutz: Advocating murder for over 7 hours.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Jazz Noise

Gearslutz: Advocating murder for over 7 hours.

if you're going to do it, do it with style.