fender vibro-champ(champ) users,please help

lowswing · 13th March 2006

I got a 68' vibrochamp today i turned it on and the valves glow, it has great tone and the tremolo is amazing the only problem is that it is quiet.
I know it is only 6watt but i think something is wrong here, even with volume turned to 10 the volum is so low i can put my hear against the grill and ask for more.
although it is distorting from 8 and above the volume is more like headphones than an amp

,It is not normal is it? where should i look for the problem?

HudHudson · 13th March 2006

Not normal. I have blackface and silver face VibroChamps and I would start with the power tube (it may still glow even if its output is diminished), and if that isn't the culprit, maybe the output transformer is bad.

lowswing · 13th March 2006

thanks for the reply!
So how loud should i except it to be ?

also if I change the 6v6 (power tube) should I change the bias and if yes how do i do it?
thanks again

joneps · 13th March 2006

Could it be the wrong speaker impedance? A vibro champ uses a 4 ohm.

Man, those 68 and 69 little fenders are the best sounding amps around. When it's working properly you'll never use anything else again. Enjoy. I've got a closet full of them.

lowswing · 13th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneps

Could it be the wrong speaker impedance? A vibro champ uses a 4 ohm.

Man, those 68 and 69 little fenders are the best sounding amps around. When it's working properly you'll never use anything else again. Enjoy. I've got a closet full of them.

I don't think so, the speaker is the original fender-labeled speaker(Oxford 8EV???) from 68'

sekim · 14th March 2006

Try another 6V6 and see if that fixes it. That amp is cathode biased so there is no bias adjustment. If it's working properly, you definitely won't want your ear next to the grill...

timmcallister · 14th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

So how loud should i except it to be ?

I've had 5 or 6 old fender blackface amps, and still have a 63 vibro champ. When it comes to guitar amps, "tube" watts are WAY louder than "solid state" watts.

Cranked, that champ should be able to drive your wife out of the living room.

drmmrboy · 14th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

So how loud should i except it to be ?

Loud enough where I wouldn't put my ear to the grill.

I have a 67 vibro. When I got it, it sounded good, but I make a habit of old amps going straight to my tech. (You never know what the amp has been through in the past 40 years.) He found a bunch of small issues. From an incorrect resistor, to a tired tube.. It all adds up, but now the amp rocks! Have someone look at yours. When it's right, it's thumbsup thumbsup

Jim Williams · 14th March 2006

I beefed up the psu a bit and now use an EL34 power tube, it's probably around 12 watts now. That tube is much more open and clear than the foggy 6v6. I also ripped out the vibrato and used the tube for a Marshall style preamp, it screams!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

lowswing · 15th March 2006

thanks for all replies!
it ended to be the speaker how's demaged...
can anyone recomend a replacement (8" 4Ohm)?
right now I use it through 2x12" blue buldogs 8Ohm but sounds very cool

joneps · 15th March 2006

I put a Jensen P8R-4 in my 69 Bronco (the same guts as a vibrochamp) and I dig it. I like it more than the stock fender speaker I have in my other 69 vibrochamp.
But, I'd be curious, too, what other options exist.

timmcallister · 15th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

can anyone recomend a replacement (8" 4Ohm)?

Check out webers site: http://www.tedweber.com/

they sell (imho) the best replacement speakers available, and have great forums to discuss the pros/cons of various speakers in various amps.

HudHudson · 15th March 2006

I had a 1/4" speaker out jack installed in one of my VibroChamps so I could play it thru a 1x12 cab with a Weber alnico 12". Much better than that tiny 8" original.

tho_dk · 16th March 2006

Another vote for Weber-speakers!!

And for Fender Champs :-)

lowswing · 16th March 2006

anyone know who distribute weber in germany?

Jim Williams · 16th March 2006

My Champ came with a Jensen replacement speaker, it's a tinny piece of crap. I replaced mine with a 4 ohm eminence 8" speaker from Mojo Music supply. Way better tone, smoother without that top end irratation.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

lowswing · 16th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

My Champ came with a Jensen replacement speaker, it's a tinny piece of crap. I replaced mine with a 4 ohm eminence 8" speaker from Mojo Music supply. Way better tone, smoother without that top end irratation.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

thanks Jim,
do you have the model number? I'm about to order this jensen which many recommended me and is avaliable around here: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product...06&language=en

tmarra · 17th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowswing

thanks Jim,
do you have the model number? I'm about to order this jensen which many recommended me and is avaliable around here: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product...06&language=en

This one will sound a lot better:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product...roducts_id=397

-Tony

lowswing · 17th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmarra

This one will sound a lot better:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product...roducts_id=397

-Tony

What will be the difference?
I asked tube doctor and they said the alinco is more percussive 50's sound and the classic is more 60's sound.
I'm planning to build a cabinet in the future with 2x12 wired (with a switch) for 4Ohm and 16Ohm so right now i'm looking for some 8" replacement that sounds good.

Jim Williams · 17th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmarra

This one will sound a lot better:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product...roducts_id=397

-Tony

That's the same alnico Jensen I took out of my champ, what a tinny piece of crap. If you want some meat, go with the Eminence.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

lowswing · 17th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

That's the same alnico Jensen I took out of my champ, what a tinny piece of crap. If you want some meat, go with the Eminence.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

yes some one told me that small (we are talking 8") doesn't sound so cool and i better go with ceramic for nicer bass

tmarra · 18th March 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

That's the same alnico Jensen I took out of my champ, what a tinny piece of crap. If you want some meat, go with the Eminence.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Jim, I have no doubt that the Vibro Champ you modified for a EL34 with an extra gain stage sounds great, and the Jensen Alnico would sound tinny in that situation. But that's not a classic Champ sound. Keeping it stock will give it that classic clean sounding Fender sound with just enough breakup when pushed.

The Alnico will produce more crystal bell like tones than the ceramic will. The difference would be sort of like turning the "bright" switch on a Fender AB763 circuit.

In today's world there are sooooo many amps out there, that if you want a small high gain amp that's kicks butt you should just go buy one, instead of choping up a classic Fender Virbro Champ. But that's just my opinion.

-Tony

Jim Williams · 18th March 2006

The Jensen came installed into my Champ when I bought it used. I changed that speaker before any amp work was done. Yes, the EL34 is clearer in the tops. The Jensen speaker sounds like a tweeter without the woofer, very thin. It sounds nothing like the original speaker that comes with the champ either. My AB763 1966 Deluxe Reverb would sound just as thin if I used that speaker. If anyone wants to buy the Jensen, please PM me.

It's not about "original" tone, classic amps, respect for my elders or tradition, it's about the sound, so I go anywhere I must to get the results I need. If butchering a classic amp gets me where I need to go, so be it. All of my classic amps are heavily modified to achieve the sounds I use. Stock amps are missing something for me. So I fill in the cracks.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

13th March 2006	#1
lowswing Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,446 Thread Starter	fender vibro-champ(champ) users,please help I got a 68' vibrochamp today i turned it on and the valves glow, it has great tone and the tremolo is amazing the only problem is that it is quiet. I know it is only 6watt but i think something is wrong here, even with volume turned to 10 the volum is so low i can put my hear against the grill and ask for more. although it is distorting from 8 and above the volume is more like headphones than an amp ,It is not normal is it? where should i look for the problem? __________________ Guy Sternberg Engineer, Producer LowSwing Studios, berlin www.lowswing.de

13th March 2006	#2
HudHudson Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, Texas USofA Posts: 1,645	Not normal. I have blackface and silver face VibroChamps and I would start with the power tube (it may still glow even if its output is diminished), and if that isn't the culprit, maybe the output transformer is bad. __________________ "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson should have said this, but didn't www.yellowdogstudios.com

13th March 2006	#4
joneps Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Metro DC Posts: 50	Could it be the wrong speaker impedance? A vibro champ uses a 4 ohm. Man, those 68 and 69 little fenders are the best sounding amps around. When it's working properly you'll never use anything else again. Enjoy. I've got a closet full of them. __________________ ~Jonathan Two new Yawns albums now available! Download them for free today. http://www.nothingsperfectrecords.com/

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14th March 2006	#6
sekim Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 363	Try another 6V6 and see if that fixes it. That amp is cathode biased so there is no bias adjustment. If it's working properly, you definitely won't want your ear next to the grill...

14th March 2006	#9
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	I beefed up the psu a bit and now use an EL34 power tube, it's probably around 12 watts now. That tube is much more open and clear than the foggy 6v6. I also ripped out the vibrato and used the tube for a Marshall style preamp, it screams! Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

15th March 2006	#10
lowswing Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,446 Thread Starter	thanks for all replies! it ended to be the speaker how's demaged... can anyone recomend a replacement (8" 4Ohm)? right now I use it through 2x12" blue buldogs 8Ohm but sounds very cool

16th March 2006	#14
tho_dk Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 67	Another vote for Weber-speakers!! And for Fender Champs :-)

18th March 2006	#23
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	The Jensen came installed into my Champ when I bought it used. I changed that speaker before any amp work was done. Yes, the EL34 is clearer in the tops. The Jensen speaker sounds like a tweeter without the woofer, very thin. It sounds nothing like the original speaker that comes with the champ either. My AB763 1966 Deluxe Reverb would sound just as thin if I used that speaker. If anyone wants to buy the Jensen, please PM me. It's not about "original" tone, classic amps, respect for my elders or tradition, it's about the sound, so I go anywhere I must to get the results I need. If butchering a classic amp gets me where I need to go, so be it. All of my classic amps are heavily modified to achieve the sounds I use. Stock amps are missing something for me. So I fill in the cracks. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades