Oktava mk 319 Mod questions w/pics

[Puffer Fish]

Rather than specifically answer your questions, I will direct you to my 'higher power' and inspiration for when I was getting into modding out a bunch of MK-219 mics--which have the same capsule and electronics as the MK-319.

Here is an article written by Scott Dorsey that was responsible, at least in part, for the Oktava mk-219/ mk-319 craze.:

- Oktava MC-219/319 Upgrades : Recording Magazine -

I am sure you are well aware of the great work done by Michael Joly, Marik, JJ Audio and others when it comes to modding these mics. Those folks all have countless posts on countless threads regarding these mic mods and those posts are often helpful in working through all this stuff.

There is another DIY option for you to consider if you have not done much parts swapping yet. Bill Sitler offers kits for DIY folks like yourself. I have a thread on Gearslutz (somewhere around here...) where I posted some A/B comparisons of stock and modded 219s where I did the mods via Bill Sitler's kit. They are pretty easy, well illustrated and quite affordable. Check it out:

Oktava MK-219 Modification Kits and Service

Anyway, good luck with your mods. They are WELL worth the effort. I feel pretty confident in saying you will be pleased with the results. If you do not have a lot of soldering iron experience, just take your time and double check what you are doing as you go along and you should do pretty well.

[Beefy]

You should of posted this in geekslutz forum. I will answer the best I can though. Yes replace those resistors with 1megs the replace C2 with something like a 100pf wima polystyrene or polypropylene or like a xircon or some such silver mica or try out a few of those the 4 big caps replace with some panasonic fms. They might not be in the audio path but it won't hurt. I'm not sure if I remember this correctly but the one closest to the capsule put a 100 uf and the other 3 I think are 22uf but you should be able to fit like a 47uf in there. The other little caps you will have to look up but I don't remember replace those with what ever value they are with some wima polyester or propylene it won't matter.

A google search would of told you all of that though. Post in the right forum and use google.

[Traintrack]

I have asked to have this thread moved to the correct forum.

The 319 has various layouts, this one has not been addressed on the sites that I have seen. There is no walk through on the mods with photos of this board that I have seen. I obviously did some searching, hence the switch removal and the inner screen and the silicon.

[Beefy]

Sorry I ment c2 was 1000pf not 100. As far as that layout not being addressed I just gave you most of the mod off the top of my head I would do exactly what I said and It will get you there. If you feel like you havr to go ahead and replace c3 and c4 just replace them with other 1000pf polyester wimas they arent 1000pfs in there now they are probably something like 330pf or 220pf but 1000 will defiantly work. The only thing else you could replace is the rest of the resistors which I have no Idea if that would make an audible difference or not I haven't done it and most people say it doesn't and the fet which If I were you I wouldn't touch because fets that will be more of a taste thing and most likely people will tell you to put a faster in there and to me slower fets sound better more creamy.

You probably wern't thinking this before you bought the mic but you should of started out with an mxl v67g. There is only one set of boards that is used in them so the schematics will match up and I like the way it sounds better than the oktavas after both have been modded. The oktava is a much better mic if both haven't been modded though.

[Traintrack]

Thank you my Friend in St. Louis.

Have been using the mic on a Gibson Humming bird for the past couple of days and it is sounding real good. I might do the C2/R1/R2 and see what that brings. I wanted to get a good ear on what I have now before I install any more parts.

I am surprised that no one else chimed in with any parts recommendations. I think it would help a few people DYI one of these with some solid information. I know that my numbering is off on the photo vs. the Schem. Could use some help on that. Also identifying the parts that are no longer in use after the switch change.

I would like to see some more photos of other MK319 circuits posted in this thread as a one stop mod thread. It is very easy work to swap these parts and get a great sound. The parts can be bought for under 10 bucks shipped.

[Beefy]

The switch is a switch and a filter I believe and in removing it your just bypassing the switch and the filter everything your not using would be on the mini board that you already removed the reason no one else is chiming in because the mods for this and similar mics are all over the internet and if you don't use the search they won't answer. I don't know everything about mic modding or electronics by any means but I know enough to where you listen to my recommendations you wouldn't be able to get the mic sound better than that except maybe by replacing the capsule.

[Nate Will]

I have an Mk 319. start a tutorial and people will get the courage to even consider doing a mod for it. alot of people have gotten these mics because of the sudden price drop a couple years ago. I think most people are afraid. If you show a picture step by step of what you have done to the 319. I know I would start modding myself. I probably won't buy the same exact parts as you (just because I might want slightly different coloring on my mic). Other people will do the same and come back with their opinion on the sound allowing you to hear different takes on different mods just in case you want to switch it up from year to year..you never know.

Forget it I found a site where someoen did exactly what I'm talking about. I'mabout to begin this modding journey tomorrow.
http://marshalserna.com/2010/10/25/d...-319-mic-mods/

[artzeal]

I'm in the process of modding my Mk-319 as well. I'm now surfing for more detailed information on component types and values.
Upgrading the capacitors, the FET and related resistors makes sense, as does removing the switched high pass filter and pad.
And there's reducing the mechanical resonance to undertake as well.

I photographed the board so I could accurately map the circuitry.

I thought I'd post the annotated photo of the stock circuit board and a schematic to provide a convenient reference.

[LeeYoo]

Hi.
Is this a mistake in the first post?

{Also, If I am not upgrading the FET, is it wise to replace R1 and R2 to a 1 meg?}

Leo..

[artzeal]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

...I prefer to leave in the original Oktava Russian FET and only upgrade the 1uf electrolytic caps with high performance black gates for best performance...

Good to know. What type of capacitors, and what values do you substitute for C3, C7, C8 and C9? I've read some suggestions that C8 could benefit from a polyester metal film cap? Since Black Gates are no longer in production, what do you recommend as a replacement, and do you maintain the same uf value?

[artzeal]

Thanks very much: that's very helpful. Now to order the components.

[LeeYoo]

Dumb question.
Why a "nonpolarized" cap for C3.
Aren't they of lower quality than polarised caps.
Leo..

[Frost]

Question for Frank re #4. Why not use something like a 10mf with a .1mf bypass?

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

It depends on the way the nonpolarized cap is manufactured. Cheaper NP caps use two polarized caps back to back in opposite polarity direction. These are the ones considered to be lower in quality.

I used Rubycon Blackgate caps which are constructed differently. The Red NP series comes in several different grades, each having superior performance over their polarized counterpart, with a corresponding price differential. If I had not had a stock of NOS blackgate NPs on hand, I would not have used NP caps, or would have considered using polpypropylene caps instead.

Blackgate caps are not ordinary electrolytics. They can work at microwave frequencies, or so Rubycon claims. Of all caps I have used, blackgates come closest to sounding like a piece of straight wire. They are that organic and natural sounding. But sadly they are no longer made.

That's incorrect. ALL nonpolarized electrolytic caps consist of two polarized caps back to back. However Rubyco Blackgates use a special formulation dialectric containing graphite and a special construction.

Electrolytic caps are by nature polarized, as are tantalums. the various types of plastic caps (mylar, polystyrene, polycarbonate, etc.) are by nature not polarized.

Different types of capacitors have different distortion characteristics based both on the materials involved and the physical construction.

The frequencies that capacitors can work at at a function of both value and construction. Incidentally, there is no particular reason that a microwave cap would be superior to any other cap for audio.

When used directly in the signal path, electrolytic capacitors are generally regarded as inferior to plastic caps of similar value. However for larger values plastic caps have the drawback of being both much bulkier and more expensive.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by LeeYoo

Dumb question.
Why a "nonpolarized" cap for C3.
Aren't they of lower quality than polarised caps.
Leo..

No.

[LeeYoo]

Uhhh. .
So even if a polarized cap can be used, you still would use a nonpolarized cap.
(There is a constant positive 1volt DC on this cap).
Leo..

[artzeal]

Well this is interesting indeed. Not much work at all for a substantial improvement.

I got a small variety of components types and values to try: I thought I'd evaluate changes progressively as I went, by making short test recordings.
I have a stock of short recordings with different mics: vocal, doumbek, electric and bass guitar into amp & cabinet, acoustic guitar, and cuatro. Recorded through a Focusrite ISA One. Not rigorously scientific: but useful for quick assessments, since I use the same test licks for each instrument. The cuatro is particularly useful, as the jangly harmonics of this inherently not well intonated instrument really put the upper mids and high end response of a mic in the spotlight.

I should mention that many of the existing parts on my unit appear to be reasonable quality components: except the C3 electrolytic cap. All the existing resistors and caps test accurately as speced. So clearly, later production MK319s are better built than the ones usually referred to. Another thing worth mentioning is that this mic doesn't ring: in front of a cranked cabinet: nothing: if you rap on in with a spoon; a dull tock: It has average or lower handling noise compared to other condenser mics. Perhaps the body is made from a different alloy than earlier versions that have a resonance problem. No caulk needed. I also found the pad and bass roll off switches not objectionable. Not that I'm likely to use them: but I'll leave 'em in for now. Kinda cool to have magnetic reed switches that work.

I replaced C2 with a 820pf COG cap (the existing one was 680pf) and resistors R1 and R2 with 1000M ohm 1% metal oxide film resistors . I replaced the electrolytic C3 with a 68uf (47uf not available) Nichicon FPCAP R7 Series Functional Polymer Solid Electrolytic capacitor RR71C680MDN1 which the spec sheet touts as having ultra low ESR even at high frequencies and high ripple current capability. On my MK319, Capacitors C7, C8 and C9 are not cheapo electrolytics, but are either solid polymer electrolytics or some other modern film capacitors, so probably decent components. I'll leave them in for test round 2 of recordings. (Test 1 is the control; stock MK319): With these upgrades, its noticeably more transparent: the stock MK319 sounds congested in comparison.

Test round 3 was made after removing the discs off of the capsule. The response is even more even and accurate. A modest difference compared to the cap and resistor change, but significant in that more detail is apparent: less hash, less veiled. The MK319 now sounds excellent: Its also very quiet (S/N). Its hard to believe its the same mic. Every register has a clarity and separation, without seeming distorted or enhanced. You can effortlessly hear every part of the spectrum, the transient response is a delight.

I had other upgrades I was planning, and other types and values of caps I could try: Its likely there could be other (minor?) gains by replacing this, that or the other. But I'm not going to mess any further with this success. It now sounds far better than I had hoped. At this point, it just sounds "right" - I don't know what could be improved. Its balanced, accurate and open: Maybe after recording for a while I'll notice some warts. But for now, I'm done. Soldering pencil and multimeter are put away; and the MK319 is on the mic stand getting it done.

[Joe Haze]

wow.... ok so, If I wanted to "mod" my 319, could somebody just give me one recipe? 900 opinions and conflicting information makes things more confusing.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by Joe Haze

wow.... ok so, If I wanted to "mod" my 319, could somebody just give me one recipe? 900 opinions and conflicting information makes things more confusing.

it's not so much conflicting opinions as much as it is there are a lot of ways to do this--variations on the same theme, if you will. If you have a whole lot of different parts laying around your house and tinker on things, then go check out the articles I referenced earlier in this thread and experiment.

If you still want to do this work yourself, I suggest checking out this guy's kits: Oktava MK-319 Modification Kits and Service

You do need to make certain you own an actual Russian version of the mic and not one of the Chinese copies.

Even if you do decide to get into one of Bill's kits, I suggest reading the articles I referenced to learn more about what you are getting into and to gather suggestions regarding removing the inner mesh and that sort of thing.

On the 319, some folks completely disconnect the daughter board with the switches, and some folks leave it hooked up.

Other than that, read, learn and go for it.

[Joe Haze]

ok, thanks. I will study up on it more, I am just trying to establish a clear goal for the mod.

[Puffer Fish]

The goal of the mod(s), as you surely suspect, is to polish the diamond that is hiding underneath the wire mesh in the head basket, behind the circuitry that alters the signal in a not-so-flattering sort of way and from the resonating mic body (if you have an MK-219 like I do).

Trust me and the many other folks who have polished their diamond--it can really shine! The mods are really NOT that hard, but they do take some time, patience and preparation to execute well. So that is why I suggest doing your homework first.

The capsule is wonderful. The mic sound will fill a niche for you brilliantly. And since you have a MK-319, I do believe that the folks making toroidal transformers at SAMAR were looking into a replacement mic output transformer for the MK-319. It's just another option in the list of ways to mod your Oktava MK-219/ MK-319 mics! I do not have any MK-319s though, so you'd need to verify the transformer thing for yourself. I had read a rumor, that's all.

[artzeal]

AFAIK, I don't think a definitive MK319 mod is available as free info.

IMO, the Mk319 is different enough from the MK219, that MK219 mods do not apply. First, of all the MK319 electronic components tested very accurately in mine and are of good quality (photos in previous post). Mine also does not have resonance issues (I did RTV it, but no difference.) The screen material is marginally more open changing it, but not the huge impact claimed for the MK219. So, it would seem many MK219 issues were improved in the MK319.

Removing the tuning disc from the capsule does give a more natural sound that I prefer. I would try this first: and if you're happy with the sound: you might call it done. Changing the electronics makes less of a difference, and there are a lot of changes that would probably sound worse. If your electronics are like those in the above post: I think changing C3 for a higher quality low ESR polymer electrolytic of the same value, and changing R1, R2 for metal film resistors, and C2 to a film capacitor are an upgrade.
Caps C7, C8, C9 are already film types, and given their function, I saw no reason to change them. If one is going to get into transformers, new coupling capacitors, or extensive circuit redesign: it would make more sense to have an expert do it, or save the money toward a mic that works as desired without mods.

I didn't hear any difference between having the Pad and HP filter bypassed or disconnected, so I just left that part of the circuit alone. So, that's my 2 cents worth, based on actual experience with the MK319. I do little recorded tests to compare before and after, etc., so, while its not rigorously scientific, I'm not just relying on memory and guesswork. I am fairly well versed in electronics, but I'm not an expert on mics, FWIW.

As a side note: In my personal experience tantalum capacitors (sometimes recommended) are not a good choice in microphone (or in passive audio) circuits; particularly in the audio path: spec wise they may seem like a good choice, but my ears consistently have told me otherwise.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by artzeal

AFAIK, I don't think a definitive MK319 mod is available as free info.

IMO, the Mk319 is different enough from the MK219, that MK219 mods do not apply. First, of all the MK319 electronic components tested very accurately in mine and are of good quality (photos in previous post). Mine also does not have resonance issues (I did RTV it, but no difference.) The screen material is marginally more open changing it, but not the huge impact claimed for the MK219. So, it would seem many MK219 issues were improved in the MK319.

Removing the tuning disc from the capsule does give a more natural sound that I prefer. I would try this first: and if you're happy with the sound: you might call it done. Changing the electronics makes less of a difference, and there are a lot of changes that would probably sound worse. If your electronics are like those in the above post: I think changing C3 for a higher quality low ESR polymer electrolytic of the same value, and changing R1, R2 for metal film resistors, and C2 to a film capacitor are an upgrade.
Caps C7, C8, C9 are already film types, and given their function, I saw no reason to change them. If one is going to get into transformers, new coupling capacitors, or extensive circuit redesign: it would make more sense to have an expert do it, or save the money toward a mic that works as desired without mods.

I didn't hear any difference between having the Pad and HP filter bypassed or disconnected, so I just left that part of the circuit alone. So, that's my 2 cents worth, based on actual experience with the MK319. I do little recorded tests to compare before and after, etc., so, while its not rigorously scientific, I'm not just relying on memory and guesswork. I am fairly well versed in electronics, but I'm not an expert on mics, FWIW.

As a side note: In my personal experience tantalum capacitors (sometimes recommended) are not a good choice in microphone (or in passive audio) circuits; particularly in the audio path: spec wise they may seem like a good choice, but my ears consistently have told me otherwise.

Good points, as the MK-319 was supposed to address a lot of the short comings of the MK-219. I must say, all my advice or information on this subject comes specifically from the MK-219, of which I have a bunch of and have modded them all to great satisfaction, so please bear that in mind when reading my comments.

[Joe Haze]

I may just pay to have mine moded.

[bremusound]

...

[bremusound]

...

[Puffer Fish]

Or look for another used 219 or 319 for a good price and use one of them for parts and the other as your mic. Seriously, if you can find one for $80 ~ $100, that is probably less than what it would cost to buy a new capsule even if you could FIND one. Just a thought.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by iMacCartney

Ok, thank you guys. Looks like I have to pay for my stupidity I'm located in Finland and Russia is just behind the corner so I guess I should try to contact them first. If I replaced the capsule with some other than Oktava, do you have any recommendations for that or is it even possible?

I expect you should look to some K47 type capsule if you can't obtain an Oktava capsule. It should work. Good luck acquiring a replacement.

[Puffer Fish]

Yeah, I suspected the capsule would be pricey. Look for a used 319 or 219--they use the same capsule. Or get yourself a 47-type capsule which would get you in the ball park of the stock 219/ 319 capsule (I think!!!) I am pretty sure I have seen them around for less than $100, but I can in no way speak for their quality.