I feel like I need to learn C++

[PELicanWord]

I'm not sure how many people here actually know C++, as it's not really an audio thing per say, but I'm finding now that 80% of the jobs available at places I want to work require C++. Anyone have any insight?

[ark]

What's your current programming background?

[tlennon]

Not only just C++ programming language anymore, you have to understand Framework and some other fundamentals like ASP.

[PELicanWord]

My programing background is minimal, unless you consider Max MSP or MIDI programing

[nofi]

what sort of work do you want to do?

I've only done a bit of C++, and found it easy to learn once I got my head around classes - but I'm an embedded systems engineer and I do a lot of C already...

I reckon if you want to learn C++ and you have no programming experience, you really need to do a programming course. And by a course - I mean a proper one. university or college style thing. not a "teach yourself c++ in 21 days" book. There's a lot more to programming than syntax and system calls, and in my own experience dealing with the work of people who never learned how to program is HELL.

[soundsundergroun]

Originally Posted by nofi

I reckon if you want to learn C++ and you have no programming experience, you really need to do a programming course. And by a course - I mean a proper one. university or college style thing. not a "teach yourself c++ in 21 days" book. There's a lot more to programming than syntax and system calls, and in my own experience dealing with the work of people who never learned how to program is HELL.

I second this. Taking a course on this level will help you determine if programming is right for you. Even then, it may take an additional course or 2 to really determine if you can handle it. Although I was decent at it, it took me 3 1/2 years of majoring in this to figure out it wasn't for me.

Programming is not easy. The people that are good at it tend to also be very good at high level math and logic.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by PELicanWord

I'm not sure how many people here actually know C++, as it's not really an audio thing per say, but I'm finding now that 80% of the jobs available at places I want to work require C++. Anyone have any insight?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here. Are you asking why 80% of the jobs require C++?

Also, what kind of jobs are you seeking that require C++? What domains?

[peteblues]

Originally Posted by nofi

I reckon if you want to learn C++ and you have no programming experience, you really need to do a programming course. And by a course - I mean a proper one. university or college style thing. not a "teach yourself c++ in 21 days" book. There's a lot more to programming than syntax and system calls, and in my own experience dealing with the work of people who never learned how to program is HELL.

I have to respectfully disagree. While to some people a class might be the way to go, others (myself included) learn better by the book. I majored in computer engineering in college, didn't learn any C++ there back then, and taught it myself.
I do agree though that it's not easy to learn, and Java would be a better language to 'ease' into programming.

If you do want to learn from a book, I can highly recommend the book 'The C++ programming language', by the creator of c++ himself; Amazon.com: C++ Programming Language, The (3rd Edition): Bjarne Stroustrup: Books

Once you're done with that book, check out 'Effective C++' and if you still haven't got enough 'More Effective C++'

With those 3 books, you should be able to answer 95% of any c++ related interview question

[pfeifferpedals]

I've been a software engineer for nearly 20 years and I've never had to learn C++. I think it depends on the application (embedded, mobile, database etc). I use C# now. Java is another language that is very popular. I think C++ is probably going to be a thing of the past.

[nofi]

Originally Posted by peteblues

I majored in computer engineering in college, didn't learn any C++ there back then, and taught it myself.
I do agree though that it's not easy to learn, and Java would be a better language to 'ease' into programming.

yes.... but you learned how to program in college.

that's my point.

sure - if you already know how to program computers or embedded systems, then go ahead and self learn C++ any way you want - that's what I did for the bit of C++ I've had to do.

But for gods sake, if you're not already an experienced programmer with some basic idea of proper code development practice, don't just go jump in and learn how to hack C++. - learn how to program at college.

[dosilegecko]

I agree, take a course at a local CC or something. I took a C course in college and learned the "learning process" for programming, and I taught C++ to myself with a lot of self motivation (trying to create VST plug ins is pretty daunting never having written any C++).

Then I learned MATLAB code, and lost it all hahaha.

It depends how you learn though, if you can really sit down and read a book and use the online info well, then try it. But if you get sidetracked easy or have too many distractions, a class will be better hands-down. I got a free book from the local dump's book exchange thing called "C++ for You++", and it was pretty good, and helped me when I was getting stuck. Again, motivation is a huge issue to be honest.

[jcatena]

> I think C++ is probably going to be a thing of the past.

No way. C & C++ have no sustitute for systems programming. Java, C#, VisualBasic, etc, may become popular for web or applications (that can always be coded C++ too, of course), but AFAIK, only C & C++ are efficient and powerful enough for systems programming. To begin with, any other compiler is almost sure written in C or C++.
If you don't know C or C++, you are not going to develop drivers, operating systems, time critical code, compilers, emulators, interpreters, debugger, etc. A C/C++ programmer like me can know the assembly code any sentence is going to generate, what's not so clear with any other language, except, of course, assembly.

[Raketen]

Originally Posted by nofi

yes.... but you learned how to program in college.

that's my point.

sure - if you already know how to program computers or embedded systems, then go ahead and self learn C++ any way you want - that's what I did for the bit of C++ I've had to do.

But for gods sake, if you're not already an experienced programmer with some basic idea of proper code development practice, don't just go jump in and learn how to hack C++. - learn how to program at college.

Academic Earth - Computer Science I: Programming Methodology

Videotaped Stanford course.

Academic Earth - Introduction to Algorithms

Actually this site is one of the coolest things on the internet.

*edit* I'll throw these in there too:

MIT OpenCourseWare | Mathematics | 18.304 Undergraduate Seminar in Discrete Mathematics, Spring 2006 | Home

MIT OpenCourseWare | Electrical Engineering and Computer Science | 6.090 Building Programming Experience: A Lead-In to 6.001, January (IAP) 2005 | Home

MIT OpenCourseWare | Electrical Engineering and Computer Science | 6.096 Introduction to C++, January (IAP) 2009 | Home

[Coldbricks]

C++ is a great language, but it is very outdated and is being phased out by open source OOL languages like Java, Python, C#, etc. Having said this, it would be a good idea to LEARN it. I would recommend learning C or C++ (get a step by step book, it will help you), but honestly, as the years go on, expect to continue learning languages. Like 99% of languages are BASED on C (including C++), so I would emphasize learning that. However, like I mentioned before, I doubt any new programmer will be FORCED to use C++. It is a personal choice as to what language is the 'best', and clearly C++ is outdated. Having said this, it is still very popular. There are mounds of books on programming and computer software. Sometimes the best bet is to go to a college bookstore and search for used books. You can get em cheep! I am not a CS major, but I do know basic programming. It is fun and helpful. Good luck!!

As a side note, VHDL is based on a C syntax, and VHDL is used to program hardware; now THAT is a good language to learn if you are into audio stuff. Look it up

[jcatena]

> but it is very outdated and is being phased out by

I couldn't disagree more. I repeat, there is no sustitute for C / C++.
Other languages may apply to specific applications, but none of them has the flexibility required to write operating systems, drivers, etc.
Nothing can be done in other languages that could not be done in C++.
But we can do things in C++ that couldn't be done otherwise.
If we take out the web and some speciality environments, EVERYTHING is written in C / C++.
Phased out? How? Are you a programmer?

[Coldbricks]

I should rephrase. I don't think C++ is being 'replaced' in the world of programming NOW, but from a students perspective, it's definetly been put down in terms of priority. 99% of the high level programming at Purdue is Python. Is this good or bad? I don't know, but it's true. Currently Java is the most popular computer language in use. This is mostly because it is THE language of open source software.

Virtually all popular langs are based on C. I would learn that.

C++ is still widely used, but eventually it will be replaced. It was designed for a time when computer memory was very limited and functionality of GUIs was practically non-existant. To be specific, the garbage collection and 'pointer' system of C++ is completely obsolete and are very dangerous to system resources. Having said all this, I doubt C++ will ever completely be gone; I mean people are still using COBOL!! But will C++ be the standard in years to come? No way.

As for me, C# is my personal favorite language. New languages use a ton of data hiding and encapsulation. No more worrying about stupid problems like memory leaks. Plus, the compilers help you write the code. Is this cheating? I dont think so. You're just using software to your advantage... However, getting back to the original post, it is definetly a good idea to learn C/C++. Even if you never use it, it will help you think in steps and help you solve complex problems.


FWIW, look up C++0x. It is supposed to replace C++. The wikipedia article is rediculous (I helped write a lot of it), if you like reading this kinda stuff! Best of luck

[_rd]

Originally Posted by CuminGingerSpice

I should rephrase. I don't think C++ is being 'replaced' in the world of programming NOW, but from a students perspective, it's definetly been put down in terms of priority. 99% of the high level programming at Purdue is Python. Is this good or bad? I don't know, but it's true.

It is not a Good Thing if the courses at university do not teach what is used in the real world. University should prepare the student for being a professional in the real world.

Currently Java is the most popular computer language in use. This is mostly because it is THE language of open source software.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

[_rd]

Originally Posted by CuminGingerSpice

As a side note, VHDL is based on a C syntax, and VHDL is used to program hardware; now THAT is a good language to learn if you are into audio stuff. Look it up

Just to nitpick, VHDL is not used to "program", it is used to "describe". It is a hardware description language.

[_rd]

To answer the original poster's question:

Start with a solid foundation. Start with learning C. C++'s strength lies in development and maintenance of large and complex modular systems, where code reusability is of paramount importance. Many people programming in C++ (I don't call them C++ programmers) either program "C with classes" or tend to abstract way too much, bloating the code and degrading readability. Finding the thin line in the middle of those two extremes is a matter of many years of experience.

[Coldbricks]

LOL. Well all I can say is, that is what I was taught, and it's true. Of course c++ is important. But I am 22 years old and that is certainly the old farts language in our younger eyes.

Also dont tell me I don't know anything; i just graduated from Purdue University with a tripple major in Computer science, electrical engineering, and aviation technology, all with honors and a 3.9GPA. Use google. Jave is by FAR the most popular language today.

I dont mean to offend anyone either. If you are good at a language, by all means, go for it. I am also going to be mature rnough to not argue about geeky things online. I am writing this from my blackberry and there is a naked girl sleeping next to me. Its friday night ! Peace!!

[jcatena]

I don't enjoy pointless discussions, and this will be my last post here.

Linux is written in C and C++. So is Windows. So is OSX. So is vxworks. So is RTOS. And so will be every OS in the next years. It is not possible to write an OS in Java, nor Pithon, nor Virtualbasic...

Java is written in C or C++. And so is Pithon. And so is C#. And so is Visual Basic.

You can think of C++ the language with all the features and no restrictions, without pre-imposed compromises, and known by the largest number of developers.

Every other language is tailored to a specific application environment, and inside that environment, it may be popular, convenient, or whatever. But none of these can replace C/C++, because lack of fundamental general purpose fearures. Java and Pithon are the most popular in web contents programming, but nearly unused anywhere else.

I have been in software development for 28 years. I know Java, C# and Pithon, and use them as appropiate for specific applications (web contents and certain portable devices). I know assembler too (it was the first language I learnt).
But I could not consider myself a software engineer without mastering C and C++, what I use in more than 90% of my work. And when I hire a programmer, I ask for C++, not only because it is the most used language, but also because anyone that know C++ well can learn anything else pretty easy (like in a week or two), while the opposite is not true.

I fully respect anyone that doesn't like C or does not use it because only programs in one of these aspecific application areas. But I have to fully disagree with those that say that C/C++ is obsolete and has been or is being sustituted, because it is plain wrong.

[Coldbricks]

Originally Posted by jcatena

I don't enjoy pointless discussions, and this will be my last post here.

Linux is written in C and C++. So is Windows. So is OSX. So is vxworks. So is RTOS. And so will be every OS in the next years. It is not possible to write an OS in Java, nor Pithon, nor Virtualbasic...

Java is written in C or C++. And so is Pithon. And so is C#. And so is Visual Basic.

You can think of C++ the language with all the features and no restrictions, without pre-imposed compromises, and known by the largest number of developers.

Every other language is tailored to a specific application environment, and inside that environment, it may be popular, convenient, or whatever. But none of these can replace C/C++, because lack of fundamental general purpose fearures. Java and Pithon are the most popular in web contents programming, but nearly unused anywhere else.

I have been in software development for 28 years. I know Java, C# and Pithon, and use them as appropiate for specific applications (web contents and certain portable devices). I know assembler too (it was the first language I learnt).
But I could not consider myself a software engineer without mastering C and C++, what I use in more than 90% of my work. And when I hire a programmer, I ask for C++, not only because it is the most used language, but also because anyone that know C++ well can learn anything else pretty easy (like in a week or two), while the opposite is not true.

I fully respect anyone that doesn't like C or does not use it because only programs in one of these aspecific application areas. But I have to fully disagree with those that say that C/C++ is obsolete and has been or is being sustituted, because it is plain wrong.

I totally agree w/ you. C/C++ is the foundational language. There is no denying that. I learned in my freshmen year (and of course, still continue to learn!!). However the original poster wanted to know if it was worth knowing? I don't know. Your point about the forward compatibility with C++ is 150% true; anyone who knows C++ can learn nearly any other language very quickly. That's the debate though, do you NEED to know C/C++?? I personally think you don't NEED to know C++ in order to program kick ass apps and programs these days. Granted you are also right about Java and C# environments, which I do believe run in a virtual machine setting, which is different than C++. You can program stuff fairly easily with these languages. However, like I said before, It is a very VERY good idea to learn it. That's all!

[Coldbricks]

Originally Posted by _rd

Just to nitpick, VHDL is not used to "program", it is used to "describe". It is a hardware description language.

You are absolutely correct that these class of languages are 'description languages'. However stuff like Verilog and VHDL is generally considered to be a type of 'programming language' due to the use of the term 'programmable logic devices'. It doesnt really matter. who cares.

[Jon Hodgson]

Originally Posted by CuminGingerSpice

As a side note, VHDL is based on a C syntax, and VHDL is used to program hardware; now THAT is a good language to learn if you are into audio stuff. Look it up

Actually, unless you're going to be programming FPGAs or designing full custom chips (which is cool stuff but the VAST majority of people working in DSP will never do it), VHDL and Verilog are basically useless.

If you are going to be developing hardware, they're not difficult to pick up (I used to be pretty sharp in verilog, but haven't had to do anything with it for a long time).

[nofi]

...meanwhile the original poster has wandered off, never to be seen in this thread again....
:-)