RNC Works Bypassed, but not In. Troubleshooting Help?

[asplashofcitrus]

Howdy fellow gearslutz! I purchased an FMR RNC 1773 Compressor about 3 months ago from someone on eBay (who had quite the feedback and reputation), and arrived fully functional. Up until recently however, I was hooking up the RNC at my church to use for my pastor's dynamic preaching, when I noticed it was not functioning normally- no signal comes back into the board when it is engaged. For simplicity's sake, the generic signal flow setup at my church generally goes as follows:

Audio Technica Lapel Mic> Allen & Heath GL3 Console> RNC inserted> out to main speakers.

Granted, everything works fine as it should without the compressor engaged, and it passes through even when bypassed. But there is very very little signal coming back into the board when I engage it. The output gain does absolutely nothing, boosting or cutting. Here's what I've tested so far:

-Tried different channel strips
-Different sources (CD player, other wireless mics, etc)
-Swapped in different insert cables
-Adjusted parameters on RNC (threshold, attack/release, etc.)
-Tried both inputs and outputs on the back of the RNC

I turn the headphone volume up 100% for PFL on the channel, and I can barely hear the audio coming through, so it's coming back somewhat when it's engaged.

I even opened up the darn thing and inspected all diodes, resistors, capacitors, soldering points, etc and nothing appears burnt, broken, or out of place (I have about a year's worth of soldering experience, if that helps). From what I know so far though, something is wrong with the outputs of the RNC when it's engaged. The LED meters still read when both engaged and off, so signal is going through. But it has something to do with the outputs when it's on, and frankly, it's not coming out.
I never recall dropping it, or doing anything to damage it, although when I received the RNC in the mail for the first time, the output gain knob turns a little easier/faster than the other knobs, if that makes sense.

If any of you guys have any insight to share, have had this happen to you, or could help me troubleshoot this problem, I would absolutely appreciate it

Otherwise it may be going back to eBay for parts/broken product...

[jetproplabs]

My guess is that you got the wrong wall wart. I bought mine used on GS and got a different but similar looking adaptor and it did not work at all. I can't remember exactly but I think the RNC is looking for AC and most wall warts convert to DC. Check that first!


robert

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by jetproplabs

My guess is that you got the wrong wall wart. I bought mine used on GS and got a different but similar looking adaptor and it did not work at all. I can't remember exactly but I think the RNC is looking for AC and most wall warts convert to DC. Check that first!


robert

Hm...definitely a good point, although the correct adapter was sent along with it (Globtek Inc. AC rated @ 9v 500ma), and was working fine for about 3 months up until a few weeks ago.

[oldgearguy]

If a visual inspection of the guts doesn't reveal anything maybe try cleaning/burnishing the I/O jacks and also reflowing the solder to all the jackpoints on the circuit board. It sounds like there's a break or hgh impedence problem that's developed.

I've had some gear that for whatever reason was designed so that the cable strain on the jacks was not relieved by the jacks being bolted to the chassis. After years of flexing and strain sometimes the connection to the board would become intermittant and by reflowing the solder, you reestablish the connections.

(I know the RNC jacks are connected to the housing, but it still may be worth a try)

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by oldgearguy

If a visual inspection of the guts doesn't reveal anything maybe try cleaning/burnishing the I/O jacks and also reflowing the solder to all the jackpoints on the circuit board. It sounds like there's a break or hgh impedence problem that's developed.

I've had some gear that for whatever reason was designed so that the cable strain on the jacks was not relieved by the jacks being bolted to the chassis. After years of flexing and strain sometimes the connection to the board would become intermittant and by reflowing the solder, you reestablish the connections.

(I know the RNC jacks are connected to the housing, but it still may be worth a try)

Hm that seems like it's worth a shot. However if that doesn't work, it'll make me look even more sketchy if I try to sell it (bits of solder messed with on the insides).

Heck I'll give it a try.

But then again I've also been looking for another compressor with more color, so I may end up getting rid of it

Also, I noticed two variable gain components on the inside (two blue rectangular components), something to the effect of "drive." Anyone know anything about it? if it worked, it'd be fun to experiment and see if it added more distortion and whatnot by turning it up/down, but first things first...

[oldgearguy]

reflowing solder on the jack connectors shouldn't cause anyone concern. Basically what you're doing is reheating it (maybe adding a touch more), and letting it cool back down w/o moving the jack so a solid connection is reformed.


Since it was working before, I would spend a few minutes with a cleaner like DeOxit (OK to use since it's all metal) or a burnishing tool and give the jacks a good cleaning inside.

The fact that bypass works is interesting. There could legitimately be a component in the compression circuit that is failing or maybe the sidechain jack has become intermittant. I'd start with the sidechain jack and work out from there.

[jinksdingo]

You might of suppied the correct wart but did the correct one get used?
Sounds like the wart to me.

[slaphappygarry]

My guess is that you got the wrong wall wart. I bought mine used on GS and got a different but similar looking adaptor and it did not work at all. I can't remember exactly but I think the RNC is looking for AC and most wall warts convert to DC. Check that first!

Exactly what I did and exactly how I cured the very same problem.

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by slaphappygarry

Exactly what I did and exactly how I cured the very same problem.

+3 on the wrong/broke walwart...

[asplashofcitrus]

Still haven't tried the reflowing of the solder....

but it stumps me to think it's the wall wart- it's been working fine for a couple months and never had issues. If it were the wrong one at all, wouldn't it not work at all/be intermittent/blow up?

Anyone have the original adapter you could perhaps show a snapshot of the back w/ the info?

Here's the adapter I have:





Stock, or no?

[aussie_techie]

The RNC is 9V AC but check that what its actually putting out

if the signal is flowing when its bypassed then i would think the jacks are fine but you could have the insert cable wired wrong

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

The RNC is 9V AC but check that what its actually putting out

if the signal is flowing when its bypassed then i would think the jacks are fine but you could have the insert cable wired wrong

I've only used (2) Hosa insert cables that I own, input=tip, output=sleeve. I even tried reversing them, didn't work.

I think it may be going to eBay soon; it's beginning to bug me quite a bit. I've got so many things to work on this summer, not to mention a trip to Vegas in a few weeks

[12Bass]

Originally Posted by asplashofcitrus

I've only used (2) Hosa insert cables that I own, input=tip, output=sleeve. I even tried reversing them, didn't work.

Tried simple unbalanced 1/4" in and out?

BTW, that adapter looks right.

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by 12Bass

Tried simple unbalanced 1/4" in and out?

BTW, that adapter looks right.

Thanks for the confirmation on the adapter-
yes I also tried unbalanced 1/4" ins and outs as well, on both channels.

It's just so weird, obviously something is causing a problem, but can't find it! haha.

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by asplashofcitrus

I've only used (2) Hosa insert cables that I own, input=tip, output=sleeve. I even tried reversing them, didn't work.

an unbalanced insert should be wired as
Tip - Send (input to comp)
Ring - Return (output of comp)
Sleeve - Ground
but a pre made cable should be wired that way so im guessing it was just a typo. you should just be able to use a single TRS cable to the RNCs insert jack anyway.

anyway, your first port of call still needs to be the power adaptor, just because its looks right doesnt mean it works. wall warts often fail before what ever they are powering.

[Tom H]

In my experience it's very easy to hook up stuff the wrong way with the FMR comps. The connectors are simply not layed out very logicly. I recall having similar weird stuff with my RNLA and I simply had LR/IO mispatched.

Are you absolutely sure you're connecting it the right way? Try hooking it up directly line in first and not as an insert...

Or perhaps the adaptor.

[12Bass]

Have you contacted Mark at FMR Audio? As the designer, he's probably the most knowledgeable person around....

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by 12Bass

Have you contacted Mark at FMR Audio? As the designer, he's probably the most knowledgeable person around....

I actually haven't- for whatever stupid reason, I have some preconceived notion that I'd have to send it in, and that will cost me money in shipping/perhaps service and whatnot. I know I'm being a cheap paranoid b-word, but I'm inbetween jobs right now so I'm sorta uptight on everything

But still thank you for all that have contributed thus far; I'm still trying to fiddle around with it...

[jetproplabs]

When I first got my RNC and it wasn't working, I emailed Mark at FMR. He got back to me quickly and told me it was the wall wart. He was very cool about even reassuring me that I didn't hurt the unit by using the wrong adaptor! Good luck.

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by jetproplabs

When I first got my RNC and it wasn't working, I emailed Mark at FMR. He got back to me quickly and told me it was the wall wart. He was very cool about even reassuring me that I didn't hurt the unit by using the wrong adaptor! Good luck.

Ah sweet. I'll shoot him an e-mail right now then.
So did you happen to order yours new from an authorized dealer, and you still got the wrong adapter? Or did you get it used from someone else?

Wow, seems like a lot of people had wall wart issues with this really nice compressor, ha.

[asplashofcitrus]

Well, since time and frustration are some issues I've been fighting, I decided to put her up on eBay:
FMR Audio RNC Really Nice Compressor- Output Issue - eBay (item 110397632434 end time Jun-06-09 17:47:15 PDT)
She served me well.

[asplashofcitrus]

Last bump for less than a day to go on eBay:

FMR Audio RNC Really Nice Compressor- Output Issue - eBay (item 110397632434 end time Jun-06-09 17:47:15 PDT)

[bibleboy3]

Originally Posted by asplashofcitrus

Last bump for less than a day to go on eBay:

FMR Audio RNC Really Nice Compressor- Output Issue - eBay (item 110397632434 end time Jun-06-09 17:47:15 PDT)

I work on all types of gear (engineer) and well I am not sure how to say this but are you NuTz!!!!!! $70 for some thing that is broken????


Bill

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by bibleboy3

I work on all types of gear (engineer) and well I am not sure how to say this but are you NuTz!!!!!! $70 for some thing that is broken????


Bill

haha yes, I admit I'm nutz for starting off at that. But you'd be surprised; there are seven watchers at the moment. If anything, I'd just list it again at a lower price if it didn't sell. and I'm almost positive it's a bad component, costing maybe .75 cents or something, idk. It is what it is

[bibleboy3]

Originally Posted by asplashofcitrus

haha yes, I admit I'm nutz for starting off at that. But you'd be surprised; there are seven watchers at the moment. If anything, I'd just list it again at a lower price if it didn't sell. and I'm almost positive it's a bad component, costing maybe .75 cents or something, idk. It is what it is

I had 8 watchers on an auction last week and not one of them bid on it.. .. and yes it might be a 75 cent part but it might take 3 hrs to find it.. and my rates are $25 hr so thats $75 .. I can charge that because I have over 20 yrs experience and a degree not to mention I have a lot of money tied up in cost such as education ( my degree) equipment , ( scope , multimeter , power supply, signal generators etc etc etc) and I keep some parts on hand .. any less than that and it would be like giving my education and experience away for free.. for the record i have had better luck selling stuff on the FREE site than on flea bay

Bill

[corworld]

Late to the party but I bought an RNC off fleabay back in '04 and had a similar issue. Sent it to Mark and he had to swap a part internally to get it working again. Great service, spoke with his wife over the phone a had it back in around 10 days. That's the way to do it.

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by bibleboy3

I had 8 watchers on an auction last week and not one of them bid on it.. .. and yes it might be a 75 cent part but it might take 3 hrs to find it.. and my rates are $25 hr so thats $75 .. I can charge that because I have over 20 yrs experience and a degree not to mention I have a lot of money tied up in cost such as education ( my degree) equipment , ( scope , multimeter , power supply, signal generators etc etc etc) and I keep some parts on hand .. any less than that and it would be like giving my education and experience away for free.. for the record i have had better luck selling stuff on the FREE site than on flea bay

Bill

hahaha epic fail for me. +23. It didn't end up selling. No biggie though .

Originally Posted by corworld

Late to the party but I bought an RNC off fleabay back in '04 and had a similar issue. Sent it to Mark and he had to swap a part internally to get it working again. Great service, spoke with his wife over the phone a had it back in around 10 days. That's the way to do it.

Very interesting to note - what exactly was the issue/component? How much did it end up costing you? I should've done that in the first place. I actually have time this week I'll be giving him a call.

[asplashofcitrus]

So here's an update- I called Mark (was a pleasure to speak with on the phone to say the least) and helped me troubleshoot things; checked the correct adapter, went through the ins and outs...but we couldn't figure out the issue on the spot. He even mentioned he's never really run into this issue before. So I guess some crazy voodoo has been going on...

Anyhow, it will be shipped off to him soon and will diagnose the problem further.

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by corworld

Late to the party but I bought an RNC off fleabay back in '04 and had a similar issue. Sent it to Mark and he had to swap a part internally to get it working again. Great service, spoke with his wife over the phone a had it back in around 10 days. That's the way to do it.

Another rebump:

Very interesting to note - what exactly was the issue/component? How much did it end up costing you? I should've done that in the first place. I actually have time this week I'll be giving him a call.




I spoke with Mark about a week ago and instructed me to e-mail him again so he could send me shipping instructions; though it hasn't happened yet. I imagine he must be busy, but I'm anxious to use it, and am curious to how much this whole thing will cost me (shipping, parts and labor, etc). Any help still? This seems like it's never going to be solved!

[Dronelove]

Cheers, everyone who suggested the wall wart AC - DC fix, that helped me get my RNC working. Thanks!