Any good replacement for TL072CP?

[s.d.finley]

Hi all,

one of my old symetrix SE400 EQ fried the other day, my fault, too much gain. Anyways, I am replaceing this chip. 2 of em, in the SE400 gain card cuz I fried them...

I dig this eq, nice and dirty for heavy guitars! Before I order stock replacements, I'd thought I'd check here at GS to see if you guys have any suggestions.

Thanx!

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by s.d.finley

Hi all,

one of my old symetrix SE400 EQ fried the other day, my fault, too much gain. Anyways, I am replaceing this chip. 2 of em, in the SE400 gain card cuz I fried them...

I dig this eq, nice and dirty for heavy guitars! Before I order stock replacements, I'd thought I'd check here at GS to see if you guys have any suggestions.

Thanx!

Haven't tried 'em, but getting ready to.. The TLE-2072 looks interesting...Don't know what it'll do to your " dirty" tone since it's has faster slew rate/wider GBW..Post back if you try them..Good luck

[s.d.finley]

Thank you for the suggestion Snatchman!

At less than $1 per opamp, I think I may get both just to test out

Any others?

edit: the TLE2072 is $2.50+ at mouser. I will get 4 of each and check out the sound difference.

[Minion]

The OPA2134 is also a good replacement ....

I highly doubt that haveing the gain too high would cause the opamp to burn out , The gain in an EQ isn"t going to really be that high , no were near as high as opamp used in Mic preamps or distortion pedals, I would check other causes cuz you might just put in new opamps and watch them fry again...


Cheers

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by s.d.finley

Hi all,

one of my old symetrix SE400 EQ fried the other day, my fault, too much gain. Anyways, I am replaceing this chip. 2 of em, in the SE400 gain card cuz I fried them...

I dig this eq, nice and dirty for heavy guitars! Before I order stock replacements, I'd thought I'd check here at GS to see if you guys have any suggestions.

Thanx!

While it's difficult to opine about opamps without reviewing the schematic I have used hundreds of thousands of TL07x and don't find them a problem when properly applied.

They are not uber low noise, so not appropriate for low impedance high gain stages. They also don't have very low impedance drive capability so are not good candidates for output stage drivers. That said for intermediate stages at modest gain, they will not be the limiting factor for the path sound quality.

I wouldn't be in a huge hurry to replace them unless they are output stages, or operating at more than 20 dB gain.

JR

[Jim Williams]

072's are problematic for me in EQ's. There is too much noise to use them for HF boost. They have only 40 db open loop gain at 10k hz, add + 15 db of HF boost and that opamp has 25 db of loop gain left to push down distortion. That creates high THD.

Better choices (if housecleaning work like phase compensation and power supply decoupling is done) are the National LME49720NA or the Analog Devices AD8599, the LT1358, the OP-275, the BB OPA2134, AD8512, etc.

Some of those have 80 db open loop gain at 10k hz, 40 db less dirt. Compare the AD8599 .9 nv/hz/sq noise to the 072's 22 nv noise.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

072's are problematic for me in EQ's. There is too much noise to use them for HF boost. They have only 40 db open loop gain at 10k hz, add + 15 db of HF boost and that opamp has 25 db of loop gain left to push down distortion. That creates high THD.

Better choices (if housecleaning work like phase compensation and power supply decoupling is done) are the National LME49720NA or the Analog Devices AD8599, the LT1358, the OP-275, the BB OPA2134, AD8512, etc.

Some of those have 80 db open loop gain at 10k hz, 40 db less dirt. Compare the AD8599 .9 nv/hz/sq noise to the 072's 22 nv noise.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Certainly there are better new parts. If the topology is calling for a lot of closed gain at any frequency use a quieter part. The phase shift and higher distortion due to modest loop gain margin are probably worse on paper than in real life. I personally drew a line at about 15-20 dB of gain, but then was then and now is now. YMMV

JR

[Jidis]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

I wouldn't be in a huge hurry to replace them unless they are output stages, or operating at more than 20 dB gain.

So John,

I guess you'd include a 6-out headphone amp as being worthy of a swap right? I've got a Furman around here that uses them I think (socketed too). Any particular modern chip you'd recommend trying there?

Thanks!

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by Jidis

So John,

I guess you'd include a 6-out headphone amp as being worthy of a swap right? I've got a Furman around here that uses them I think (socketed too). Any particular modern chip you'd recommend trying there?

Thanks!

Jim Williams is more knowledgeable about what's available these days... Back when I was doing audio stuff, I liked 5532/4 for outputs , but again I am sure there are newer better parts than that available.

JR

[Jim Williams]

You will need a scope to check for stability. Then you can play. The LM6172 is a great line driver, 3k/us slew rate and 100 ma output current, high open loop gain, 10 nv/hz/sq noise, idles at only 2.3 ma. Since it does 100 mhz, stability is a factor. Use those other suggestions for lower noise.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Reptil]

Hi!
I was going to replace the TL062 in this (cheap) module that is kindof important enough to upgrade (it's an input module) using TL07x
or TLC07x. right now it sounds like someone took a dump on it.

but now I'm not so sure

I'm looking for anything that I can put in there, preferrably socketed.
preferrably pin and voltage compatible (PSU is +- 12V)
this module is the first. I'd like to go and replace everything crappy in my modules.
please help me find the right opamps?
I also want to change the balanced input (mic level) into high headroom line level, so I'll probably have to change some resistors. (a chance to experiment with those Vishay Z-foil resistors?)
I have a schematic somewhere, will post when possible.

I know that a lot of people would appreciate this information!!
these modulars are just begging to be modded.
so... opamp wizards, please help?!!
many thanks

[Reptil]

the National LME49740 seems totally compatible!
now let's have a look at how many are needed

LME49740 - Quad High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

[JohnRoberts]

The TL06x is a lower current, lower performance version of the TL07x. So just dropping in a TL072 will be an improvement in performance.

Of course there are newer (more expensive) bifets that will drop in...

JR

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

The TL06x is a lower current, lower performance version of the TL07x. So just dropping in a TL072 will be an improvement in performance.

Of course there are newer (more expensive) bifets that will drop in...

JR

a bit more expensive is ok. this is an instrument that is used a lot, (almost all the time) also as signal processor. so it's worth it!

[s.d.finley]

So, I decided to remove 2 opamps from my other SE400 eq that works, popped in the other that doesnt, and the broke one works.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

I will repost after I get my parts and try them out.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

072's are problematic for me in EQ's.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

snip

Jim, the 072's are in the input section of these EQ's not on the boost/cut section. The ones that are: LT1358's. All 4 of the eq cards use 2 of these opamps. Any good replacement for these? Thought I'd ask before I ordered the other ones too.

I might only replace the eq opamps in 1 channel of one unit for fun. They are all on sockets.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Better choices (if housecleaning work like phase compensation and power supply decoupling is done) are the National LME49720NA or the Analog Devices AD8599, the LT1358, the OP-275, the BB OPA2134, AD8512, etc.


Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Snip

Ahh, after re-re-reading your post I see a few options!

[muddy]

what about an LME49860NA for replacing a tl072cn in the output stage of a 1073 inspired pre? the tl072cn is followed by an lm339n (comparator? do i bother swapping this, too?) and a 2n3055. if not the 49860 (i have 2 samples coming), then what, if at all? the output tranny is getting replaced by a carnhill. be gentle, i'm learning (as of a few weeks ago ).


ml

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by muddy

what about an LME49860NA for replacing a tl072cn in the output stage of a 1073 inspired pre? the tl072cn is followed by an lm339n (comparator? do i bother swapping this, too?) and a 2n3055. if not the 49860 (i have 2 samples coming), then what, if at all? the output tranny is getting replaced by a carnhill. be gentle, i'm learning (as of a few weeks ago ).


ml

The 339 should not be in an audio path. There may be newer better comparators but they are generally used in applications that won't make much difference sonically

The 2n3055 is a very old general purpose power transistor. The parts being sold today as 2n3055 may not even be similar to old parts. If you are going for a signature sound based on some idiosyncratic behavior of old parts, you need to stick with old parts. If you are satisfied with linear, clean performance that are plenty of good newer parts.

JR

[muddy]

yeah i got a nos/anos motorola 2n3055 to replace the chinese one. i kinda had that suspish re the lm339n, but i thought i'd just ask to confirm. but what about the tl072cn? i know that it's traditionally the 5532 (as in a 1073 schematic), and people are swappin' them out for a # of things (like the 2072), & this is the oppie i was really innarested in. even so, i have no idea how crucial (if at all) a component it is. whaddya rekkon'?


ml

[muddy]

ok... go!


ml

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by muddy

yeah i got a nos/anos motorola 2n3055 to replace the chinese one. i kinda had that suspish re the lm339n, but i thought i'd just ask to confirm. but what about the tl072cn? i know that it's traditionally the 5532 (as in a 1073 schematic), and people are swappin' them out for a # of things (like the 2072), & this is the oppie i was really innarested in. even so, i have no idea how crucial (if at all) a component it is. whaddya rekkon'?


ml

Ok..I had the TL0-74s swapped out for the TLE-2074s in my monitor section..My ears say...... that the 2074s are cleaner, more detail and don't really depart from the characteristics of the 74's..( if you like the 74s)...I'm getting ready to swap out the TLO-72/74s in a couple input channels line/EQ section with TLE- 2072/74s. I think this will really tell the story..!..

[Jim Williams]

Try LME49740NA quads.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[muddy]

but the lme4986na's (i have 2) are dual/dip8's, like the tl072cn it'd be replacing. the 49740na's are 14-pin.

LME49860 - 44V Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

LME49740 - Quad High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

maybe you meant the LME49720na's? the only diff between the 498x's & 497x's seem to be:

Power Supply Voltage Range ±2.5V to ±22V
instead of
Power Supply Voltage Range ±2.5V to ±17V

AND

44v's instead of 34v's

i COULD get 49720's, but is it necessary? are there reasons i shouldn't be using the 49860's i already have?


ml

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Try LME49740NA quads.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by muddy

but the lme4986na's (i have 2) are dual/dip8's, like the tl072cn it'd be replacing. the 49740na's are 14-pin.

LME49860 - 44V Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

LME49740 - Quad High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

maybe you meant the LME49720na's? the only diff between the 498x's & 497x's seem to be:

Power Supply Voltage Range ±2.5V to ±22V
instead of
Power Supply Voltage Range ±2.5V to ±17V

AND

44v's instead of 34v's

i COULD get 49720's, but is it necessary? are there reasons i shouldn't be using the 49860's i already have?


ml

As stated, I tried the 49710 in my mix bus in place of the 5534..They sound good but some reason, after the by-pass mods on the master section, the 5534s sound better to me..( especially the bottom/mids). This could be due to the swap of the TLE-2074s in the monitor outputs...BTW...I'm gonna try the 49710 as the channel fader amp in the 5534 place.... Maybe it'll suffice better as in individual signal application, than as composite application..( as always YMMV)

[muddy]

but the 49710 is a single. the tl072 is a dual.


ml

Originally Posted by Snatchman

As stated, I tried the 49710 in my mix bus in place of the 5534..They sound good but some reason, after the by-pass mods on the master section, the 5534s sound better to me..( especially the bottom/mids). This could be due to the swap of the TLE-2074s in the monitor outputs...BTW...I'm gonna try the 49710 as the channel fader amp in the 5534 place.... Maybe it'll suffice better as in individual signal application, than as composite application..( as always YMMV)

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by muddy

but the 49710 is a single. the tl072 is a dual.


ml

Yeah I know but the same op-amp as the 49720 I think.. BTW.. have you considered the TLE-2072 for the TLO...?

[muddy]

yes, i know. i had considered the 2072. i'm still learning. i have an ic mount that i'll put in, so i'll be able to swappe. i now have 2 LME49860NA's & 2 LME49720NA's (coming). why would i want the 2072? how is it diff to the nat semi's sonically?


ml

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Yeah I know but the same op-amp as the 49720 I think.. BTW.. have you considered the TLE-2072 for the TLO...?

[Jim Williams]

Other new superior replacements include the new BurrBrown OPA2211A, a 1.1 nv noise opamp with 150 uv offset voltage. Also try the Analog Devices ADA4075-2, a low power (same as the TL072 at 1.8 ma per amp) 12 v slew rate, low 2.8 nv noise.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades