New chips for my preamp

White Falcon · 26th April 2009

I just bought a very nice built 2ch. preamp! It's based around the SSM2017P and SSM2142. It sounds really nice now, but i wonder; is there never (better sounding) chips that are a straight swaps? I think i've read about a THAT-chip that (!) could replace the 2142. The power supply seems pretty beefy.

Any suggestions?

Another thing. There is a button for phantom power, but the seller told me that it is not +48V. He could not remember the voltage though. So if it's not 48, what is it? What other standards are there? My multimeter is currently (!) buried somewhere.

And sorry for the bad (!) jokes.

Best regards!

White Falcon · 26th April 2009

Sorry, i did not do a proper search

A Behringer unit worth modifying?

WF

jsnhull · 29th April 2009

48V is the modern standard for phantom power, but I've encountered older gear with 12V, 18V, 24V, etc. Some condenser mics will run on lower voltages, but probably won't sound the same if they do.

Jim Williams · 30th April 2009

You can replace the SSM2017 with a SSM2019, a BB INA217 or that 1510. You will need to have a pair of 470 pf caps from pin's 2 and 3 to pin 5 = ground for stability. The SSM2142 can be replaced with a BurrBrown DRV134 or that 1624.
You probably have 15 volts for phantom, that will run some mics but not old Neumann or Schoeps. Use an outboard phantom power supply for those mics.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

White Falcon · 13th June 2009

Oh, i've missed these answers, thanks a lot!

And thank you Jim for that detailed info, i will definitely do you mod. I've read in another post that you preferred the SSM2019 over the TI and the THAT so i'll go for those chips.

Thanks again!

Jim Williams · 14th June 2009

The SSM2019 seems to be the winner here. I just did some extensive tests with the Audio Precision on the Toft 8TB console and the that 1510 is a weak spot. Running into the monitor inputs instead of the that 1510 lowered THD from .04% to .003% in a modified console. Stock it was .1% which washed out the 1510 THD contribution.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

gainreduction · 14th June 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I just did some extensive tests with the Audio Precision on the Toft 8TB console

It would be very interesting to hear what you found out.

Jim Williams · 14th June 2009

Search the Toft mods thread. I posted stock measurements and modified measurements. The owner has posted impressions and will post audio files soon.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Jim Williams · 10th July 2009

I've finished the SSM2017, SSM2019, INA217, that 1510 replacement preamp pcb's the PIP or plug in preamp. They are 3000v/us slew rate, extremely low noise and THD, 200 k bandwidth no phase shift and great low level hf detail.
Cost is $50 each.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

xhavepatiencex · 11th July 2009

any chance for something like that, that will replace the ssm2015?

Jim Williams · 15th July 2009

If a demand comes up for them I can do a layout for the 2015 package. Audio Maintenance in the UK already has one, it's a 072 based discrete transistor thingy sort of like a Amek console preamp. Then there's the 2016 like used in Amek 2520's. I do a number of SSM2015 retro's in Symetrix 202's, that would make that job very easy as I strip the pcb and add another with wires.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

jcatena · 15th July 2009

that 1510 and INA103 are the best ones AFAIK.
The INA217 is just a new name for the SSM2017.
Anyway, the SSM2017 is pretty good and you should not expect a very noticeable difference substituting it.

Coldbricks · 15th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsnhull

48V is the modern standard for phantom power, but I've encountered older gear with 12V, 18V, 24V, etc. Some condenser mics will run on lower voltages, but probably won't sound the same if they do.

I would think they would be a lot less sensitive, but they might work?

jcatena · 15th July 2009

48v is the current standard.
I would upgrade the preamp to deliver 48v.
How mics work with smaller voltages depend on each mic, see if the specs tell the minimum required. I could probably tell seeing an schematic.
Many mics use an internal regulator so that behaviour is mostly independent of power voltage as long as it is above a minimum.
Some others may behave differently with smaller voltages.

Zeppelin4Life · 15th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcatena

48v is the current standard.

Many mics use an internal regulator so that behaviour is mostly independent of power voltage as long as it is above a minimum.

Good point..i,e, most wouldnt even turn on with <~48v

djh76 · 26th February 2010

The INA217 has slightly worse noise performance than the SSM2019 or THAT1510. The SSM2017 is now obsolete. The DRV134 outperforms the SSM2142, particularly with distortion figures.

Louis Bernstone · 10th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I've finished the SSM2017, SSM2019, INA217, that 1510 replacement preamp pcb's the PIP or plug in preamp. They are 3000v/us slew rate, extremely low noise and THD, 200 k bandwidth no phase shift and great low level hf detail.
Cost is $50 each.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Jim,
Is your PIP a clean clean preamp, or does it introduce some coloration if pushed hard (unlike the Triton preamp based on the 2017)?
Thanks,
Louis

Jim Williams · 10th March 2010

No, it's a linear design so it's clean right up to the clip point, then CRUNCH! It does have 100 ma of output current so it will drive 50 ohm loads. It drives a pair of Sony headphones pretty well. It's on the "I don't really hear it" list of preamps.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Gearhero · 10th March 2010

What is the name and model of the preamp that you purchased?

White Falcon · 11th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhero

What is the name and model of the preamp that you purchased?

It's a point-to-point built "thing" i bought from an electronics engineer. I sounds fab (i've not changed any chips yet; got an old mixer to refurbish first).

CZ101 · 31st May 2011

White Falcon, did you ever get around to the chip swapping?

I would be very interested in your findings...

26th April 2009	#1
White Falcon Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Discordia Posts: 262 Thread Starter	New chips for my preamp I just bought a very nice built 2ch. preamp! It's based around the SSM2017P and SSM2142. It sounds really nice now, but i wonder; is there never (better sounding) chips that are a straight swaps? I think i've read about a THAT-chip that (!) could replace the 2142. The power supply seems pretty beefy. Any suggestions? Another thing. There is a button for phantom power, but the seller told me that it is not +48V. He could not remember the voltage though. So if it's not 48, what is it? What other standards are there? My multimeter is currently (!) buried somewhere. And sorry for the bad (!) jokes. Best regards!

29th April 2009	#3
jsnhull Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1	phantom power 48V is the modern standard for phantom power, but I've encountered older gear with 12V, 18V, 24V, etc. Some condenser mics will run on lower voltages, but probably won't sound the same if they do.

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30th April 2009	#4
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	You can replace the SSM2017 with a SSM2019, a BB INA217 or that 1510. You will need to have a pair of 470 pf caps from pin's 2 and 3 to pin 5 = ground for stability. The SSM2142 can be replaced with a BurrBrown DRV134 or that 1624. You probably have 15 volts for phantom, that will run some mics but not old Neumann or Schoeps. Use an outboard phantom power supply for those mics. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

13th June 2009	#5
White Falcon Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Discordia Posts: 262 Thread Starter	Oh, i've missed these answers, thanks a lot! And thank you Jim for that detailed info, i will definitely do you mod. I've read in another post that you preferred the SSM2019 over the TI and the THAT so i'll go for those chips. Thanks again!

14th June 2009	#6
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	The SSM2019 seems to be the winner here. I just did some extensive tests with the Audio Precision on the Toft 8TB console and the that 1510 is a weak spot. Running into the monitor inputs instead of the that 1510 lowered THD from .04% to .003% in a modified console. Stock it was .1% which washed out the 1510 THD contribution. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

10th July 2009	#9
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	I've finished the SSM2017, SSM2019, INA217, that 1510 replacement preamp pcb's the PIP or plug in preamp. They are 3000v/us slew rate, extremely low noise and THD, 200 k bandwidth no phase shift and great low level hf detail. Cost is $50 each. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

11th July 2009	#10
xhavepatiencex Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: portland, or Posts: 168	any chance for something like that, that will replace the ssm2015?

15th July 2009	#11
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	If a demand comes up for them I can do a layout for the 2015 package. Audio Maintenance in the UK already has one, it's a 072 based discrete transistor thingy sort of like a Amek console preamp. Then there's the 2016 like used in Amek 2520's. I do a number of SSM2015 retro's in Symetrix 202's, that would make that job very easy as I strip the pcb and add another with wires. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

15th July 2009	#12
jcatena Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 134	that 1510 and INA103 are the best ones AFAIK. The INA217 is just a new name for the SSM2017. Anyway, the SSM2017 is pretty good and you should not expect a very noticeable difference substituting it.

26th February 2010	#16
djh76 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Adelaide Posts: 20	The INA217 has slightly worse noise performance than the SSM2019 or THAT1510. The SSM2017 is now obsolete. The DRV134 outperforms the SSM2142, particularly with distortion figures.

10th March 2010	#18
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 9,364	No, it's a linear design so it's clean right up to the clip point, then CRUNCH! It does have 100 ma of output current so it will drive 50 ohm loads. It drives a pair of Sony headphones pretty well. It's on the "I don't really hear it" list of preamps. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

10th March 2010	#19
Gearhero Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 274	What is the name and model of the preamp that you purchased?

31st May 2011	#21
CZ101 Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 736	White Falcon, did you ever get around to the chip swapping? I would be very interested in your findings...