Mac to go Intel?

[Geoff_T]

Hi

I was listening to a computer discussion program on the radio today and it mentioned a news report....

http://news.com.com/Apple+to+ditch+I...?tag=nefd.lede

... that Mac's were ditching the Motorola/IBM chip sets that they've been using since the dawn of time and going over to Intel chip sets on future machines. Apparently OSX was written to run on both chip sets.

The problem with this is that software would need to be re-written to run on the new generation machines. You won't be able to run your present software on next generation Mac machines.


So how will this affect PT and other Mac based software items? New code and new prices?

[weedmaker]

What's next? Windows and Linux on Mac

[manning1]

geoff T.
heres a little something to ponder....
1. with the advent of dual core amd and intel processors ...probably followed i suspect by quad processors and with the maturation of linux audio (eg....check out ferventsoftware.com as well as ardour.org...there could be really interesting alternatives coming about from the traditional routes for a daw.
fyi....i run totally soft daw on amd right now.
2. IBM has sold off a number of its commodity pc assets i believe to a chinese company. However - the question remains in my mind will big blue bring some lightning bolt processor out of its labs.
A further thing to think about. IBM strategy often is to let others seed a market before coming in full force. I dont know - but it is possible IBM might have - for the last few years let amd and intel seed the clone pc market before stepping up to the plate with processor power we have not seen yet.
An interesting read for you is the book "Big Blue".
read it sometime. very interesting.
just one computer engr's perspective. peace.
ps....some very interesting computer wars i feel we shall see in the coming 10 years.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by weedmaker

What's next? Windows and Linux on Mac

No. More like MAc on a PC.

[macmoondoggie]

It's not going to happen.

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by macmoondoggie

It's not going to happen.

Hi

Just out of curiosity, other than it being a rather drastic move, why do you think so?

Here's more info...

http://news.com.com/Apple+to+Intel+S...96.html?tag=nl

also reported by the Wall Street Journal

http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/23/tech...reut/index.htm

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by macmoondoggie

It's not going to happen.

Living in denial.

[tINY]

Combine this news with the Intel "Platformazation" restructuring and things could get real interesting...

http://www.webpronews.com/business/t...nExpected.html

Will Apple partner with Intel? Or will Apple become a "me too" company that uses the same platforms as Dell and Gateway and others?


-tINY

[manning1]

tiny.
as your aware ive been impressed by a number of your posts.
comment/give me your opinion on this.
i believe that in 5 years the daw platform that could be the leader is a linux OS
running all sorts of music/multitrack apps on cheap dual core hyper fast amd processors. what think you ?
in summary i think amd and linux together are going to realise a new very cheap solution for recording studios. ardour and fervent and many others coming i'm sure are going to pull a few surprises.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by manning1

tiny.

i believe that in 5 years the daw platform that could be the leader is a linux OS
running all sorts of music/multitrack apps on cheap dual core hyper fast amd processors. what think you ?

Not untull they make Linux super easy to install, which IMO, it still isn't.
And not unless they are able to make VSt plug-ins install from within Linux.

Also, they woudl ahve to have Apps that make it possibel to import and export from other software packages.

Otherwise it's just not worth the grief.

[Nerve Nickels]

THIS IS APPLE TAKING THE CONSUMER MARKET.

THIS WILL BE FOR THE AFFORDABLE SMALL MARKET. THINK MINIMAC / IPOD.

WE WILL SEE A SLOW DOWN IN THE POWER USER G5-STUFF FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS 2006-2007. PRODUCTS WILL BE GETTING more SMALLER VS. more FASTER

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Nerve Nickels

THIS IS APPLE TAKING THE CONSUMER MARKET.

THIS WILL BE FOR THE AFFORDABLE SMALL MARKET. THINK MINIMAC / IPOD.

WE WILL SEE A SLOW DOWN IN THE POWER USER G5-STUFF FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS 2006-2007. PRODUCTS WILL BE GETTING more SMALLER VS. more FASTER

Hi

I agree... I think they are trying to push into the consumer market, competing with the likes of Dell and Gateway, not by killer price reductions, but by providing an attractive looking package with more features at near killer prices.

We shall see on Monday....

[manning1]

hench.
your point is the same one ive made to a few linux distro folks.
but things have changed rapidly in the last little while.
check out the ready to go product ferventsoftware.com.
pretty impressive if you ask me for an early version. apparently its load and go.
as to vst plug ins...i understood this is now supported in linux.
for example ardour.org or check this review out.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7796

geoff.
on the mini mac. i tried two different ones this week.
frankly it was slow.
just use google.and enter the words mini mac and slow ...and a number of comments will come up. the g5 is a serious machine. but imho the mini mac with its slow internal drive is not what i would pick for serious heavy duty audio multitracking. but its fine for general tasks.
heres one of many reviews finding the same as i did.
http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/...9186351,00.htm
if you want to see what i mean...by comparison for the same price or less an amd 64 system will blow it out of the water. number of tracks and plug ins as well as dsp processing times. just my opinion from my own testing.

[Shadow Hills]

Hi Geoff,
Isn't this the wrong kind of "geek"slutery. Computers bad. Solder good.
All the best,
Peter

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Shadow Hills

Hi Geoff,
Isn't this the wrong kind of "geek"slutery. Computers bad. Solder good.
All the best,
Peter

Hi

I'm not sure that I follow you...

Computers have their uses and the news could have long term ramifications on the DAW scene. I believe all the Macs will use this setup by 2007.

I don't think that geekslutz topics are limited to hand soldered analogue... The topic is about what happens under the hood of a Mac computer!

Gotta keep up with the times!

[tINY]

Intel has a new CEO and the goals have changed. No longer is Intel based on a "sell the latest processor" model. The new model is to sell all the parts needed to make a number of different "Platforms". You may still by a computer from Dell (or Apple?.....) but Intel will design all the basic guts needed for a particular device.

The Centrino mobile is the prime example. People don't care what speed the processor runs at, but the power management and integrated wireless networking (among other things designed into the basic system) make it attractive for notebook computers.

Intel has also showcased some sub-operating system software (firmware, really) to enable other tasks. I don't think the ties with Microsoft are as firm as they once were. Intel wants to sell electronic devices that do things for people, not just computing engines. I don't think that the operating system is anything more than a means to an end anymore.

Consider the "Digital Home" with a cetral unit set up to deliver multiple video streams to several places in a home (as well as receive all content entering the home)

http://www.intel.com/technology/digitalhome/

It shouldn't be hard to bend that for use in recording. ...and I don't think that most people will want the liablities of Windows on their VCR.

It will be interesting to see how flexable these beasties remain when ease of use becomes important,.....

AMD could carve out a nitch in the recording studio market, but I wouldn't count on it. The high-end or professional stuff will still be semi-custom and expensive. The home studio is still up for grabs... but I bet it includes a 4 or 8 core processor and is based on a "Platform" that sees a lot of sales for home A/V.



-tINY

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by tINY

AMD could carve out a nitch in the recording studio market, but I wouldn't count on it. The high-end or professional stuff will still be semi-custom and expensive. The home studio is still up for grabs... but I bet it includes a 4 or 8 core processor and is based on a "Platform" that sees a lot of sales for home A/V.
-tINY

You are oblivious to the fact that AMD processors are the processor of choice for DAW's. As they outperform Intel CPU's in plug-in count etc.

[weedmaker]

This could be the most important decision Apple has ever made. If they switch to Intel/AMD, they would be on the cutting edge of processor development not to mention the cost and cross platform compatibility! And what about Mac OS + Windows + Linux on the same hardware - winner!

Or, better, what about Mac OS on DIY Intel/AMD (let say AMD Opteron) machine?

The end user will benefit if this become true.

Dell beware!

[thenewyear]

And what about Mac OS + Windows + Linux on the same hardware - winner!

Really?? Whatever happened to simplicity?

I want one box, running one simple and powerful OS, that does everything I need.

Period.



I don't particularly care what chip a machine runs, although I must admit to being a little saddened by the news of Apple switching to the same architecture as other PC manufacturers as I believe that diversity is always valuable & to be cherished.

[zboy2854]

And it's official:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ple_intel_dc_3

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

And it's official:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ple_intel_dc_3

Hi

Not until we hear it from Apple today. That Yahoo is just another prediction like the original link I posted on Saturday.

[weedmaker]

Originally Posted by thenewyear

Really?? Whatever happened to simplicity?

I want one box, running one simple and powerful OS, that does everything I need.

Hi,

Every of the major OS's has some huge advantage over the other:

1)Linux: Stable as rock, safe, some code trace back to 60's VAX UNIX ... Your ordinary programmer learned his craft on this OS. The usual choice in serious science computing and software engineering! Hmmm some defacto standard web applications like Apache web server are running on Linux. Lack of serious user oriented applications at the moment– but that’s changing rapidly!

2) Mac OSX: Great OS based on UNIX as well, stable, well respected in professional graphic design circles, art and music inclined users in general are very fond of this platform. Minus – Hardware, namely processors - expensive and always generation below current offerings of INTEL/AMD, which is the reason why Apple finally admitted that if they want to survive, going with INTEL is inevitable!

3) Windows: The predominant OS at the moment around the world. Your kid is using it, so are your wife and your granddad too... You can't get an office job nowadays without knowing fundamentals of Windows + Office package (At least here in Europe). It is great for Internet, communication, games, and every other possible application for leisure and home usage. Cheap hardware needed, and from Windows XP onwards very, very reliable and stable platform. Pro using stretches from CAD/CAE, 3D animation, Video, native DAW etc...

There is a lack of confidence in Windows platform among long term Mac users although Win + INTEL platform is drastically cheaper and faster then new G5 -

Times are very turbulent at the moment, so we should wait and see...

I guess that in next decade we will end up with ONE mutant platform ( MAC - INTEL -AMD - Someone else may join maybe?)

So depending on your primary business you only choose OS + applications you need to run! Hardware is the same, so if you change your mind afterwards, just change OS or run multi boot enabled computer

[tINY]

Originally Posted by Henchman

You are oblivious to the fact that AMD processors are the processor of choice for DAW's. As they outperform Intel CPU's in plug-in count etc.

I haven't taken the time to do the survey...

It doesn't really matter at this point because the mother-boards are easily exchanged and perfromance is very similar (and there will be a fasters ones available in 6-9 months).

What I am talking about here is where the industry is heading. They are up against some pretty big obstacles for just making faster processors and chipsets. Everybody is looking for a new way of doing business.

The hardware and software needed for multitrack audio recording is very similar to what is needed for the "home PC" where multiple steams of video are decoded, stored, and delivered to different monitors. A clear leader in that bigger market could easily modify the system to run a mutitrack audio recorder.

The wild-card here is the I-Pod. Something along those lines could be used for 8 track recording and fit in 2 rack spaces. Just need to save it to a HD when you are done working with a piece.

The future is wide open....



-tINY

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by tINY

The wild-card here is the I-Pod. Something along those lines could be used for 8 track recording and fit in 2 rack spaces. Just need to save it to a HD when you are done working with a piece.

I can do that with my AMD64 Laptop (1k) and any 8 channel firewire interface.
Why the need to haul around a 2 rackspace case.
Me. I'd like to see an 8-10 channel micpre in a less than 19" rack wide 2 space box.

The I-pod isn't a wild card at all. It's a consumer product that Apple is makiing alot of money off of.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

Not until we hear it from Apple today. That Yahoo is just another prediction like the original link I posted on Saturday.

Ok. Now it's official:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/050606/tech_...ntel.html?.v=1

Apple said it will begin delivering Macintosh products using Intel microprocessors by this time next year and will have all of its all flagship Macintosh computers using Intel processors by the end of 2007.

Guess that new G5 will be obsolete in a year or 2.

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Guess that new G5 will be obsolete in a year or 2.

Duuuhhh, all computers are 'obsolete' after that time. Btw, they'll support the PPC versions for many years (basically no effort compiling from binaries). So you'll be able to run it for many years to come if you want.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

Duuuhhh, all computers are 'obsolete' after that time. Btw, they'll support the PPC versions for many years (basically no effort compiling from binaries). So you'll be able to run it for many years to come if you want.

Really. I bet they won't. Thereby forcing you to buy a new computer in a year and a half.

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Really. I bet they won't. Thereby forcing you to buy a new computer in a year and a half.

I was stating a fact rather then wild speculation actually.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

I was stating a fact rather then wild speculation actually.

another scorned mac user

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by Teacher

another scorned mac user

Not really, I don't care what they put in the box, a Mac is all about the OS.