Compression Pre-EQ or Post-EQ???

[pardahl]

Hello everybody. I've got a doubt. When do you compress when you're mixing a song??? Pre-EQ??? Post-EQ???

Saludos.

[gyraf]

..depends entirely on material, setting of EQ, and what you're trying to acheive..

Jakob E.

[pardahl]

I'm asking that because I'm studying sound production, and the year before one of my teachers (one respected professional) told me never to use compression post-eq. And yesterday another of my teachers told me always to use compression pre-eq. I think same as you, use compression depending what you're searching for. But those totally different opinions made a doubt in me. So guys, what are you're opinions about that? Is it possible that use compression pre-eq is better for example on drums, and post-eq on vocals? (It's just an example)

Saludos.

[Blue Bear Sound]

There are no rules as such.... as Jakob said "....depends entirely on material, setting of EQ, and what you're trying to acheive...."

[tINY]

Throw the post EQ to the sidechain and you get something else too.



-tINY

[Johns]

Although there are no rules, I think your teachers are trying to impress on you that compressing after eq can be problamatic. Frequencies you boost make the compressor work more and changes the result. Now this can be a great thing, but your teachers are trying to give rules (to help justify there paycheck).

[Darius van H]

The only rule you need to remember is there are no rules!

eq before or after compression?....whatever it takes...as long as you keep listening, you'll be alright.

[pardahl]

Ok, compression pre-eq or post-eq, it doesn't matter. The important thing is to like what you hear. But I've got curiosity to know what normally happens when you do one of the two options. Which are the results you've obtained experimenting with pre or post-eq compression?

Saludos

[silverdisk]

A neat technique I picked up from a Glenn Meadows post is to Eq both before ....and ....after compressor...


say you want the compressor to act less on the bass, cut the bass pre compressor, then boost the bass the same amount on the post compressor with the same frequency and db amount as the pre comp EQ..


I believe he called it differential EQ.... I think someone also mentioned this can be used if you compressor doesnt have a side chain but you need it to do sidechain type work

[Darius van H]

Originally posted by pardahl
Ok, compression pre-eq or post-eq, it doesn't matter. The important thing is to like what you hear. But I've got curiosity to know what normally happens when you do one of the two options. Which are the results you've obtained experimenting with pre or post-eq compression?

Saludos

Why don't you experiment and see for yourself?.......

I understand what you're going through........when you start out, you want to find rules......but as you go along you realize it's more about tricks, not hard and fast rules. That's why experienced people will reply with these annoying, vague answers like "it depends".

IMO, there's no substitute for hearing something yourself....that means getting your hands dirty and experimenting.....good luck!

[JulianBrightnes]

Depends on the programme, that's true.
But one 'rule-of-thumb' I find is that when I use EQ to 'correct' (let's say get rid off some hiss or something) I usually eq after compression, if I maybe want to add some 'air' to a vocal to sweeten things up a little it's usually pre-compression.

Cheers, Julian

[pardahl]

Originally posted by Darius van H
Why don't you experiment and see for yourself?.......

I understand what you're going through........when you start out, you want to find rules......but as you go along you realize it's more about tricks, not hard and fast rules. That's why experienced people will reply with these annoying, vague answers like "it depends".

IMO, there's no substitute for hearing something yourself....that means getting your hands dirty and experimenting.....good luck!

Well, my intention is to experiment by myself, but at this moment I can't, so I'm recollecting possible solutions to experiment with. Doing this, I'll have a base from which I can get started with. Everybody talks about the theory of compression but I've never got to hear a practice result form the start, I mean, learning what happens in every step of the process. I've do it myself, but I don't know what I'm really doing. I don't know how should I compress a drums, or a guitar... That's why I'm asking that kind of "starter questions".

Saludos.

[Frost]

Although I dont have many hard and fast rules, I usually use compression after EQ when doing subtractive EQ (the cuts then dont cause the compressor to work as hard when Im removing that audio anyway) and I use eq after compression when Im adding with the EQ (that way the added say high end actually comes through instead of just causing the compressor to clamp down on it). Ive done it a million different ways and always used my ears to judge whether the results were what I was looking for.
Frost

[JTR]

Hey Pardahl,

Here's my ten pence

Compression is gain sensitive

It will react to whatever frequency "nail" is sticking up the highest

If you change the amount of energy by Eq before compressing, expect a change in the compressor response: whether you like or dislike the result is very much program specific:

E-X-P-E-R-I-M-E-N-T

If you Eq after compressing, the compressor will not change its behavior

So - strategize your technique accordingly

NOW - consider the following

many engineers use a compressor aggressivley as a tone/character device

one of the side-effects of compressors (not all - that's why we pay thousands of dollars for some units) is a dulling of the high frequencies:

you can ameleorate this by any of the following:
compensating with Eq after compression
side-chain compression
spending more money for better compressors

Lots of us will also use a dual Eq technique, where we Eq out frequency "hotspots" before compression, to avoid compressor over-reaction, and then Eq again after compression, for final tone-shaping and compensation...

and remember; take all advice with a grain of salt, until you can personally confirm, and understand that teachers are often trying to simplify complicated concepts so that the gum-crackers in the back of the room get it.

all the best with your studies

[Bob Olhsson]

The order you put gear in can make a big difference in the sound but the difference is frequently because of how the gear interfaces with each other than what the signal processing does.

[pardahl]

Lots of thanks to everybody. Your help trying to explain me the particular world of compression has been great. I've found something to work with and I've started experimenting I'm starting to understand lots of the things you told me. I've made radical experiments with a drums (6 tracks) and I can say I've learned more with you guys than at school.

Thanks a lot.

Saludos.

PD: OH!!! I'm still interested in your compression secrets so don't stop with your messages. I think a lot of people will learn a lot with a thread like this one.

[vaesion]

Originally Posted by pardahl

Ok, compression pre-eq or post-eq, it doesn't matter. The important thing is to like what you hear. But I've got curiosity to know what normally happens when you do one of the two options. Which are the results you've obtained experimenting with pre or post-eq compression?

Saludos

i normally eq first then compress..........it seems i dont know how much i need to compress until i get the bull ish freqs out of there......if i compress with the over bearing junk freqs in there im likely to overcompress trying to tame them when eq is the better tool.
to eq compress then eq again seems like it would give an over processed sound.
Ive tried it a few times and was turned off by it. It already sucks bad enough trying to get a natural boost out of a computer eq.
its still what ever works though

[elizaday]

Hi! I'm also a student right now and I know how frusterating it can be trying to decipher your teachers' intentions. I agree with the other guy that they try to make "rules" to make it easy to digest. I definately take their "rules" as suggestions and definately preffer experimentation to get answers. You also have to remember, that some people just engineer by the "standards" and don't ever really consider peeking outside the box. We newbies need to remember that our job is not to emulate the past but to create something new. So bottom line, experiment! Thats what I do! It cant HURT. I mean, unless you create some heinous feedback loop but you know what I mean.

Its good to know I'm not the only one on here who is new to this. I am learning a lot from this site already.

Thanks everyone

[OHA]

I always place eq after compression unless for one task: the stereo bus comp.
I place the eq first, often to roll of some low low end.
Then the compressor doesn't affect the program level so much on bd/bass hits, and in general you get a higher level. Nice for radio

[Richard]

Originally Posted by OHA

I always place eq after compression unless for one task: the stereo bus comp.
I place the eq first, often to roll of some low low end.
Then the compressor doesn't affect the program level so much on bd/bass hits, and in general you get a higher level. Nice for radio

Opposite to what he just said!
You must under all circumstances EQ first! The only exception is when that doesn't work!
You, as previously stated, have to experiment. This is a function that has NO rules,
Attack, release, ratio, threshold, type etc., add as many questions as pre/post.
If you don't have a compressor to experiment with, try this.
Finger in one ear is akin to pre EQ compression, fingers in both ears is akin to post EQ compression. This is my own simple lesson and has zero science to back it up, and even this has to be demonstrated and qualified to be of any use.
Richard