What is That Vintage Sound?

[Elvis]

I have always loved and admired, in general, the sound of recordings made in the mid 70's. From the The Clash to Brothers Johnson to Fleetwood and back again. It seems to me like a time where technology and talent were slightly more refined than the experimental 60's but not as cookie cutter and sterile as today. I realize this is just my opinion but I would like to know everyones thoughts on how that sound was created as well as the best way to recreate it. What are the main contributing factors?

Is it the analog world and tape?
is it the microphones?
Tubes?
The instruments and musicians themselves?
mixing different?
EQing less bright?
Mastering different?
not compressing everything to death?
All the above and more?

What recommendations (gear, technique, whatever) would you give to someone trying to recapture the spirit and sound of that era?

[gainstages]

sure - transformers, tubes, and tape are a big part of it.

But - much bigger than that - they were actual musicians with real instruments actually playing many of the tracks together as a band. they weren't sliced, diced, quantized and autotuned, they didn't have limitless tracks, and by hell if you couldn't play your instrument some 20 year old with a laptop didn't make it sound like you could.

yeah, they did editing. yeah, they had tricks to help with slightly out of tune vocals. yeah, there are some infamous projects where the razor blade was worked pretty hard, and yeah, there were some infamous projects where they had a ridiculous number of tracks... but none of this even close to the extent we see today.

at least, that's my two cents....

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Elvis

I have always loved and admired, in general, the sound of recordings made in the mid 70's. From the The Clash to Brothers Johnson to Fleetwood and back again. It seems to me like a time where technology and talent were slightly more refined than the experimental 60's but not as cookie cutter and sterile as today. I realize this is just my opinion but I would like to know everyones thoughts on how that sound was created as well as the best way to recreate it. What are the main contributing factors?

Is it the analog world and tape?
is it the microphones?
Tubes?
The instruments and musicians themselves?
mixing different?
EQing less bright?
Mastering different?
not compressing everything to death?
All the above and more?

What recommendations (gear, technique, whatever) would you give to someone trying to recapture the spirit and sound of that era?

Hi

I'd put it down to circuit evolution... I've watched it as I've grown up. As a child, everything in the house was mono and valve (tube based)... this is the late 40's and early 1950's.

Even so, there were very high quality amplifiers and tape recorders available at a price... most makes have disappeared or are a fake name assembled in China.

This was also the early days of rock and roll... I recall my elder sister bopping to Elvis's Heartbreak Hotel on a 78!

By the time the 60's arrived, so had rock 'n roll, and so had transistor portable radios using germanium technology. Early models with their teeny speakers sounded like sh*t compared to a valve based table radio!... but they had portability. By stringing up a long aerial I could just pick up Radio Luxembourg on 208 metres AM. This, in the early 60's, was the only way you could listen to popular music because BBC radio consisted of the Home, Light and Third programs.

Germanium is OK... it has advantages like lower forward conduction voltages... but the devices could also suffer from thermal runaway. By the time I went to college in '63, I was taught valve technology first and then transistor technology as it evolved.

The arrival of pirate radio stations off the shores of the UK in the early 60's marked a watershed in how accessible music was. The tuning dial was full of Radio Caroline, Radio London, etc... fabulous to use an expression of the times.

It was also an era of mini-cars, miniskirts, Carnaby Street, Twiggy and discos!

By the mid 60's most amp manufacturers had gone over from valve to transistor (solid-state) and the germanium circuitry had been replaced by the newer, better, silicon technology. Early transistor products resembled their valve forebears with transformers for phase splitting and output transformers driving the speaker. By the early 60's the circuits were (OTL = Output-transformer-less) transformerless unless it was specific for the role of the amplifier.

As the 70's approached there were new integrated circuit amplifiers, the 741, the better 748, etc. They are mocked at now but, back then, you could make a nice studio monitor amplifier with a 741 front end.

In the USA, tape players evolved into the 8T cartridge... the rest of the world had the Philips pioneered stereo cassette tape players and recorders. In the studios, tape recorders evolved from 3 track to 4 track to 8 track to 16 track to 24 track.

When it went from 3 to 4 tracks many engineers wondered what to do with the extra track!

I went through Watford Electric (heavy electric switching and controlling) to the special projects group of British Aerospace (mainly missile electronics), to Dymar Electronics (marine radios and test gear) to Neve. I took a huge salary cut when I started at Neve but, looking back, it was worth it!

Neve evolved through the 1073/1081 era of the early 70's, Necam and programmable switchers in the mid 70's, microprocessor controlled assignment in the late 70's and digital consoles in the early 80's.

Anyway, that's my 2c perspective on all the changes!

[HiString]

Geoff,

Great summary...................and damn, it brought some memories flooding back............National transistor radios.......bugger the sound, we could actually have music at the beach.

"mini-cars, miniskirts, Carnaby Street, Twiggy and discos!"

.............oooohhhhh yeah!!!

[Led]

Don't forget that all the gear was analog and each place had it's own collection of gear with it's own sound. A Pultec at the Hit Factory sounded different to the Pultec at Heiders etc. Even when people were using the same gear, the individual components aged differently so there was a difference. That's what I love about analog gear, it wears and ages organically and sounds individual. My old LA3A'a are not that far apart serial wise but sound different to each other. Plugins sound exactly the same no matter where you are or how old they are, leading towards a homogenous sound coming form everywhere.

[Hxd Ped]

OK, I have a question, and I hope it's not considered off topic.



Geoff's post mentioned 3 track recorders. Why were early mixers/recorders 3 tracks? 3 tracks just seems like a weird number to me.


Is there an answer to this or is it just one of those things that has no real answer?


Sorry, but it's been bugging be for a while.

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by Hxd Ped

OK, I have a question, and I hope it's not considered off topic.



Geoff's post mentioned 3 track recorders. Why were early mixers/recorders 3 tracks? 3 tracks just seems like a weird number to me.


Is there an answer to this or is it just one of those things that has no real answer?


Sorry, but it's been bugging be for a while.

Hi

I'm not an expert but I believe it was simple evolution... from mono wire recorders and early tape to 2T to 3T to 4T etc., as technology advanced.

[James Meeker]

A lot of factors contribute to an era's sound. The gear. The studios. The producers. The "hot" sounds of the times everyone wanted. The instruments available at the time. The influences in the players. The technology available. The approach/philosophy of recording at the time.

Start figuring out ways to incorporate those influences into the session, the more the merrier, and you'll start finding yourself sounding more like that time period.

[GILFOIL]

Originally Posted by gainstages

and by hell if you couldn't play your instrument some 20 year old with a laptop didn't make it sound like you could.

Just curious why you would specifically target the "20 year old with a laptop" demographic?

(of which i am included)

i'm seeing this stereotype more and more and it's getting ****ing annoying

---

as far as that vintage sound, even though i'm just "some 20 year old with a laptop" i too really appreciate that sound (big fleetwood mac fan)
IMO, (thought i think someone already touched on this) i'd probably say the medium on which the music is played plays a large roll
(as in vinyl vs. mp3)

but again, i'm just a 20 year old with a laptop.

wtf do i know

[Chaellus]

GILFOILQuote:
Originally Posted by gainstages
and by hell if you couldn't play your instrument some 20 year old with a laptop didn't make it sound like you could.

Just curious why you would specifically target the "20 year old with a laptop" demographic?

(of which i am included)

i'm seeing this stereotype more and more and it's getting ****ing annoying





i here you buddy, well im 22 and 95% of my gear/items i use to mix with or track are from the 60's or 70's except for the daw and audio interface.. i hadnt touch anything digital till 98 which is when i started developing my engineering skills first tampered with a cassete deck then went to digital...got really good at it,,, then went to tape..agian but this time reel to reel and now i combine both as my letahl weapon of choice.....honestly i tihnk its the mentallity that most 20 plus years bring to the table that put them off to the older folks.. with a one way to do things you know strap a plugin compressor or waht not and its all set to go not caring if theres a better way sonically... and not having the patience to setup soemthing and maintain it oh shall we say like a tape deck or ignorance of all the tools in studio or waht there good for... im just saying all the stuff i see when a youngster talk to me... its fine as we all learn and grow....ive been tinkering with sound for 10 years and i still managed to find my way to audio school just to fill in the 20% of knowledge i didnt know so i could be up to par.....some kids want things handed to them or get to frustrated to easily.....and for this industry you have to roughen up your skin...and pay your dues... but on the brightside i have happened to be favored of the older crowd with my knowledge and experince with various equipment or recoridng techniques and such.... if you make an effort to know your questions its best to see if you cna find information on it before discussing it...it shows your willing to learn...and alot of youngsters are leaving that out... of the 100% of people trying to get into this industry only 10% make it because they have the desire to stick it out when others assume easy work..... easy and audioengineering dont go in the same sentece..yea after awhile it might be easy bur for those that made it , it wasnt always so

[vince @ speck]

Originally Posted by Elvis

I have always loved and admired, in general, the sound of recordings made in the mid 70's. From the The Clash to Brothers Johnson to Fleetwood and back again. It seems to me like a time where technology and talent were slightly more refined than the experimental 60's but not as cookie cutter and sterile as today. I realize this is just my opinion but I would like to know everyones thoughts on how that sound was created as well as the best way to recreate it. What are the main contributing factors?

Is it the analog world and tape?
is it the microphones?
Tubes?
The instruments and musicians themselves?
mixing different?
EQing less bright?
Mastering different?
not compressing everything to death?
All the above and more?

What recommendations (gear, technique, whatever) would you give to someone trying to recapture the spirit and sound of that era?

- Noise
- Good engineering
- Great music and lyrics

[Elvis]

Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far. If possible, could get a little more advice and specific suggestions for recreating that classic sound today? Is it a matter of forcing myself to work with a 4 or 8 track limitation? using as much analog as possible and bypassing plug ins all together? Recording live instead of overdubbing? what gear suggestions? Thanks.

[Tom H]

Hey, you're Elvis! You should know...


Actually I think you're on the right path with your ideas, if you can make a decent recording of a nice song on tape with some vintage style mics and preamps, you are basicly there. It's probably not that easy but a great learning experience though...

[dannygold]

A big part of mid to late 70s stuff is dry drum sounds. Even if it wasn't disco, dry drums were du rigour. So I'd shoot for dry drum sounds if I were you.

Also the sound of early digital reverbs and delays were used on those records. Check out a plugin that emulates the Lexicon 250 or early Eventide stuff, etc.

And of course tape... maybe a good tape emulation plugin (DUY tape, massey tape head, etc).

[Wavebourn]

For me vintage sound means no heavy compression, and no deep feedback to compensate garbage of "very dirty open-loop" amplifiers.

[leddy]

Originally Posted by GILFOIL

Just curious why you would specifically target the "20 year old with a laptop" demographic?

(of which i am included)

i'm seeing this stereotype more and more and it's getting ****ing annoying

In the generation before you (of which I am included), knowledge, experience and gear came at a higher cost than it does today (we did not have the internet or Chinese factories). That's a good thing - but IMO it has created a sense of entitlement and an over-developed ego in many (not all) young adults I meet. Not just in music - but all pursuits.

Like "pop" musicians, more often than not, could play their a**es off compared to young musicians today. No cut & paste. They had to play. There is a reason recording engineers were called "engineers" (I'm not including myself in that group - I'm still learning). You had to know more things about maintaining gear, calibrating tape decks, etc.

A good example is the complete disregard for intellectual property. Music and software is thrown around like it magically grows on trees. Some kids laugh at the idea of paying for someone else's hard work. That speaks volumes about the character of many (not all) young people.

It frustrates some of those that have been around longer and had to pay more dues.

My $.02 anyway. Hope it helps. Don't fret, you'll get to complain about the generation behind you. (They're babies right now - so go easy ).