Possible to cut a balllanced mono vinyl record?

[symmetrik]

instead of cutting a stereo signal could you cut a balanced mono signal to an vinyl LP for symte/time code for synchronizing software so there are less drop outs? more accurate feedback?

[symmetrik]

To elaborate on the subject,

I'm a touring dj, using serato's scratch live.
ScratchLIVE.net
i love the dexterity of this software, very reliable.
however having to use the house turntables can be frustrating. Regular records can sound fine but due to the nature of phono, low rumble or other outside noise can confuse the software and lower the performance all around. I was thinking if it ran as a balanced source it would be less prone to these errors.

I'm unsure of how a balanced signal would translate on vinyl. Any input would be helpful.

thanks slutz!

[tINY]

I believe that you could do it. But bandwidth may be an issue.




-tINY

[machineintel]

I think a bigger concern would be actually cutting the record. Unless you have your own record cutter. In which case you're the man.

[machineintel]

Are serato's timecode records just cut in dual-mono? I'm assuming...

[rotation]

Originally Posted by symmetrik

Regular records can sound fine but due to the nature of phono, low rumble or other outside noise can confuse the software and lower the performance all around.

Are you talking about vibrations? In our club we put foam under the turntables and it's ok.

[symmetrik]

Thanks for the replies.

tINY - I'm not quite sure what you mean by bandwidth? The original vinyl has a simple symte type signal printed to it. When I get an LP pressed it would seem that the bandwidth on an stereo audio recording would be far greater.

machineintel - I don't own a lathe but I do have access to a couple. Yes they are currently being cut in dual mono.

rotation - in most cases it isn't an issue, but when i'm touring sound check isn't always an option due to later fights and so on.. . The interference isn't always a result of vibrations but can simply be poor cables, dirty connections, and so on. You have to remember that turntables need a preamp to get the signal to line level alone. Add any interference in there and the results are similar to lagging midi or no response.

[David Kulka]

If low rumble and outside noise is the problem you may have some success with high pass filtering, though you'll lose some low end.

Most mechanical interference in turntables manifests as "vertical modulation" of the playback stylus. So you could try summing the left and right, which will cause the vertical component to cancel out. Of course, the audio will then be mono. But it might help.

I don't think timecode is a solution, I think it would leak into the audio track and be annoying.

Balanced wiring is not a help here because the problem, per my understanding of the OP's comments, is mechanical.

If problems are caused by dirty connections and bad cables then the only real solution is to fix those problems.

You can't do sound checks because of fights? Sounds like a rough gig!

Originally Posted by symmetrik

To elaborate on the subject,

I'm a touring dj, using serato's scratch live.
ScratchLIVE.net
i love the dexterity of this software, very reliable.
however having to use the house turntables can be frustrating. Regular records can sound fine but due to the nature of phono, low rumble or other outside noise can confuse the software and lower the performance all around. I was thinking if it ran as a balanced source it would be less prone to these errors.

I'm unsure of how a balanced signal would translate on vinyl. Any input would be helpful.

thanks slutz!

[machineintel]

David:

Sorry if I misinterpreted your response, but while those would have all been good points if it were a different situation, I don't believe you understand his goals.

The audio track that is cut to vinyl is a SMPTE timecode and only a SMPTE timecode, which is played back in order to control the speed and location of digital audio files of the actual songs that come through the speakers. This way, DJ's are able to have the flexibility and portability of a digital audio library, while still retaining the control characteristics and feel of a turntable.

So the problem is not in the sound quality of the music actually coming through the speakers, but the accurate playback of the timecode on vinyl, so it can be read by the serato software clearly to reduce any sort of jitter or timing control issues.


symmetric:

I think that cutting the timecode balanced would definitely help at least in the electronic part of the signal (from cartridge to computer). I'm not really sure how it would affect any mechanical noise...I'm no expert on turntable needle physics.

Of course the other issue is de-balancing the signal. I don't know if the serato software can do such things...Maybe you should write them about it. they must have a good reason for not implementing it yet...

[Paul Gold]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are talking about. I actually cut a custom Serrato record with whatever is normally on the outside of the record at the inside of the record.

From the description of your problems I don't think there would be any difference between cutting with a stereo cutterhead and a mono cutterhead.

An M/S or sum/difference matrix inserted before the Seratto input with the difference signal muted would get rid of a lot of rumble and any other interference that isn't the same on both channels. Even a steep high pass filter from 1-2K Hz down would help a lot. You may even be able to do this in software before it hits the Serrato.