How to beat guitar noise in the studio?

[Basser]

Hi,

I'm needing to get guitar noise down in my studio. Excuse my lack of electronic expertise, but I thought that I may have success by earthing the guitar to a seperate earth stake. If i touched this wire connection, noise dropped a little, if I touched the earth wire to the guitar (ie, strings or metal part), noise got WAY worse (is this a ground loop perhaps?)

Have also connected a star-earthed power-point in the live room with no improvement. Have tried also with every other conceivable power source in the studio building off (incl lights) to gauge any possible causes and no hints of improvement here.

There also doesn't seem to be any obvious source(s) of RF or electromagnetic interference close by.

Any suggestions?

[Blackwater]

Well... I haven't had this problem since my move to the new facility but here goes:

Get some thin wire. Strip one end long enogh to wrap around the players wrist: 5-6-in. Wrap around his or her wrist and twist the end into the wire making contact with strands of metal. On the other end of the wire, Strip it about 1-2 in. and securly wrap that end around a string below the bridge or a screw from the pick up. You are going to need about 2-31/2 ft. of wire for this but it works. Try it and you will see.

What you are doing, wizards of electronics will have a better description, is basically making them the ground. So... Make sure they are not standing in a pool of water with their shoes off or sticking little metal rods into a wall outlet!

As bad as it might sound it really works. Also remind them when they are taking a break that they are connected to the instrument. Several people have put down their instrument and walked away only to have the guitar follow.

Chris Westerman
Blackwater Sound and Mastering

[Basser]

THanks for that.

Here's where I'm confused....

I have a new earth-stake in the ground outside with only an earth cable connected from it into the studio. Surely earthing the guitar to this should be the best kind of earthing? But no, as soon as I touch the guitar with the earth wire, it buzzes like crazy. Can anyone explain?

[faeflora]

Originally posted by Blackwater
Well... I haven't had this problem since my move to the new facility but here goes:

Get some thin wire. Strip one end long enogh to wrap around the players wrist: 5-6-in. Wrap around his or her wrist and twist the end into the wire making contact with strands of metal. On the other end of the wire, Strip it about 1-2 in. and securly wrap that end around a string below the bridge or a screw from the pick up. You are going to need about 2-31/2 ft. of wire for this but it works. Try it and you will see.

What you are doing, wizards of electronics will have a better description, is basically making them the ground. So... Make sure they are not standing in a pool of water with their shoes off or sticking little metal rods into a wall outlet!

As bad as it might sound it really works. Also remind them when they are taking a break that they are connected to the instrument. Several people have put down their instrument and walked away only to have the guitar follow.

Chris Westerman
Blackwater Sound and Mastering

FYI one day you may kill someone by doing this. If there's a ground problem and say hot flows onto ground because of miswiring in some gear or an electronical problem, you'll be passing hot current through this poor shmoes' body.

This shit can easily happen in a live environment and I'm sure quite a few of the guitarists you showed this trick to have used it on stage.

Unless you want to kill guitarists, you may want to stop showing people this.

[Blackwater]

Oh C'mon man,

I was giving a quick fix for a situation where he might not have had time to track down the problem, Not a permanant fix. This was only used by me when the problem was the guys guitar not the A/C wiring in the studio and or gear.

If he had posted " HOW CAN I GET A GALLON OF MILK?"

I would have told him to drive to the store. Should I also add the odds of him getting in a car accident within a 5 mile radius of his house?

Please.

[faeflora]

Originally posted by Blackwater
Oh C'mon man,

I was giving a quick fix for a situation where he might not have had time to track down the problem, Not a permanant fix. This was only used by me when the problem was the guys guitar not the A/C wiring in the studio and or gear.

If he had posted " HOW CAN I GET A GALLON OF MILK?"

I would have told him to drive to the store. Should I also add the odds of him getting in a car accident within a 5 mile radius of his house?

Please.

Everyone knows you can get killed driving a car. Not everyone knows that you can get killed grounding yourself to a guitar.

Please what? As an audio engineer it's irresponsible for you to suggest shit like this without clearly mentioning the possible consequences.

[Basser]

THanks guys,

but why does the noise get incredibly worse when earthing the guitar to the seperate earth stake?

I figured it would be the best earth possible and not be going through the player at all.

Seems like there would be an obvious answer to this and would appreciate anyone who could shed some light....

thank you!

[djui5]

Basser,
What exactly is the noise coming from, your cabinet or when you record and if it's when you record are you using a DI box?

Connecting a wire to your guitar like that won't fix anything. The problem might be from something inside the guitar itself...like dirty pots or maybe a bad solder somewhere.

Normally I don't like to get involved in bickering because it's a waste of energy but Blackwater....that's the most insane thing I've ever heard of. Haven't you heard of a ground lift? Or maybe cleaning your equipment. If I was working with another engineer and he suggested something like that I'd have him removed from the session. That's crazy. Sierously, you should evaluate your career choice. I'm thinking maybe a job somewhere like at a craft store would be good for you. You'd be less likely to cause some kinda reckless harm there. What's more amazing is ovbiously people have done this when you suggested it. Just goes to show what kinda backwoods operations can be going on out there. One of my teachers in school told me about an experience he had doing sound for a band that was touring and they did a gig at a tiny bar in some redneck town. The guy's who owned the bar were hooking up power for the show and one guy was wiring some cables to a breaker box while standing in a pool of water....he had his buddy standing close by with a 2x4 and told his friend to knock him in the head with it if he got shocked. Was that you?

[Basser]

The sound is coming from the amp (have tried numerous) when guitar volume is up (have tried numerous) and appears to be a reaction to air-born "radiation" of some kind. Rotating in an axis reveals quieter spots, but single coil guitars playing expressive stuff....not pretty.

[Bob Olhsson]

Plugging the amp into an isolation transformer is the best way. Another method is using a wireless although that can cost you tone in some cases.

[djui5]

Nice post Bob.

Basser,
Have you tried plugging the amp in somewhere else...like another building or maybe even another room?

Your room might be sitting on a 1200 megaton flux capitance modulator with a build in megatron tripple bypass radiatance oscillator..

Sierously, I have no idea what could cause something like that other than some wierd electrical force...but I do like Bob's suggestion of plugging it into an isolation transformer..

Have you had problems with ghosts? Sierously

[Jack Pettit]

You may know this but electric guitars do not get along well
with standard CRT type computer monitors.
A nice LCD ( no noise) monitor is a must for computers
that are around electric guitars IMHO.

[faeflora]

They also don't get along with some amps' EMF.

[Basser]

Isolation transformers?

...please tell me more:

What are they?
What do they do?
How much?

[Nathanael]

Furman makes rack-mounted isolation transformers...

[Ted Nightshade]

FWIW that grounding the guitar through the player bit would happen every time the player touched the strings. Players do touch the strings, no way around that. I have had that issue- when you hear how the noise increases when you take your hands off the strings, you tend not to take your hands off the strings for very long if you can help it.

Also interested in sources of isolation transformers.

[Randall]

The ole tele has a tendency to buzz a bit, my solution is simple, I have a fairly heavy gauged insulated wire about 2 feet long with an aligator clip on each end, one gets attatched to the guitar, the other just gets put in the waistband of my pants so that it touches me....works here!!

[jimmyjack]

I too have found this to be a problem (especially on
crapola stock pickups) and my advice is :

i) (as already posted) get an LCD monitor if you're recording
near a CRT

ii) get some EMGs! Quiet as all get-out

EMGs are the only thing that has allowed me to record
hi gain with very, very low noise (direct)

Mind you, the sound is different from stock pickups
(IMO, much nicer, but this is a controversial issue!)

ps - careful if you wire yourself up, but if you have the sort
of problem that would fry you, just touching the strings
on a non-EMG guitar will cause grief.

EMGs electronics are not connected to strings or any
other guitar grounded parts (like bridge etc)


Luck to you
Jimmyjack

[sysexguy]

My $0.02

LCD screen, as mentioned

EMG's do not require a grounded bridge but...the active electronics are noisy in their own way, some like 'em, not I

A major appliance ie fridge on another floor is a typical culprit

Any light dimmer except for a variac is also a source of problems

Noiseless Pickups are available (Kinman, Evans and copies with better marketing (but that's a whole other topic) ))

Copper shielding the guitar cavity

If noiseless pickups are your cup of tea (they lose a bit of the "vintage vibe"), install replacements that have one or the middle PU reverse wound. That way, some PU selections will be humbucking (noiseless). These are available from both the big guys or hand wound by boutique manufacturers

A good guitar cable(s)....you don't need a $3000 job that looks like a recently fed boa, but the cable that came with the strat won't cut it.

Use a sampler !!! LOL!

Noise is part of guitar...guys like EJ and Malmsteen close their guitar's volume at the end of every phrase with their pinky.

Andy

[Midlandmorgan]

If you are using any pedals en route to the amp, try lifting the ground (negative) from ONE patch cord between pedals...

Also, if the guitar is a single coil, often times just re-orienting the player a bit (instead of east-west, try north-south) can clean a lot of that buzzola up...

One more thing - make sure its actually the guitar signal and NOT the amp...try another amp, or run a direct line...Sometime back I was chasing a buzz (acoustically - not mentally) with a Strat player...turned out to be his amp...

[Basser]

Have tried a few things to nut the problem out:

Have eliminated any amp-related problem, or lead for that matter. Have actually plugged guitar (and bass) into a battery powered minidisc and same kind of noise appears....

There are 2 distinct noises that are best described as "buzzes", one is high in frequency (kinda sizzly) and the other is lower in frequency (more like hum). Rotating/changing position does effect the level of this noise, but it would still be great if it could be further reduced to accommodate softer styles of playing.

Have switched off every othere conceivable piece of gear/appliance that could be responsible for any noise too. No effect on anything though.

Don't get me wrong, I know there'll always be some noise there, but I'd just like to get it a bit further out the way

[jbuntz]

Also keep in mind that the hum has the tendency to be reduced when the player touches the strings and semi-grounds the guitar.

[LTA]

Have you tried the simple approach of altering the guitar's pitch and yaw yet? You may end up having to play flat on your back, but if it gets rid of the buzzing....

[NeoVXR]

so it is the guitar.

you need to find the distinction between inductive and capacitive noises, the cure may be different.
typical inductive hum would appear, if you position the guitar pickup near the amplifier's transformator. (humbuckers are built because of that, but have different sound)
capacitive buzz may come from the light source. turn off all light and see what happens.
and .. it would not be wise to build a studio where the subway is running through below .. ;)

sometimes we had to apply better shielding within the guitar, quick hack was this alu where a big chocolate comes wrapped in, we applied it to the back side of the guitar and made a connection with the ground pin of the cable socket. later the guitar doctor can do the correct shielding.

[quasimodonyc]

Here's a good article on shielding yr gtr:

http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/shielding/shield3.php

[LTA]

Originally posted by quasimodonyc
Here's a good article on shielding yr gtr:

http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/shielding/shield3.php

And when that doesn't result in a silent guitar, try either encasing the pickups in lead or steel, and as a last resort unsolder your pickups. You'd be pretty safe to assume anything left would be amplifier self-noise.

There is a huge difference between reducing buzz/hum, and outright eliminating it. Now, after saying this, somebody is going to tell me they have a guitar with electromagnetic pickups that they can plug in, turn on, and set down on top of an amplifier with a transformer in it and still have the output be silent of buzz/hum.