Resistors , Capacitors

[yaniv]

Hi,

There a lot kinds of resistors.. Carbon Film , Wirewound , Networks , SMT ,
Metal - Film , Carbon Composition , etc ...

Is there any recommended kind of resistors for audio circuits ?
or it doesn`t matter ?!

Also, I noticed that capacitors of Panasonic FC are very popular In this Forum
(or I`m making a mistake ?!?) , Can you please tell me why ?

Thanks A Lot !!

[nosebleedaudio]

Res. metal film
Caps; depends.. B.P., polyprop., COG...

[ulysses]

Panasonic FC capacitors have been popular because they're readily available in a wide range of sizes, voltage ratings, and capacitance from Digikey which is one of the biggest component distributors in the US and they're also among the most low-impedance, long-lasting, and heat-resistant electrolytics available. Recently Panasonic has introduced the FM series, which has even lower impedance and is also RoHS-compliant so I expect them to eventually replace the FC. Digikey also sells Nichicon capacitors which offer a very comparable range of capacitors, but they've been selling the Panasonics longer so people who buy parts from Digikey probably keep buying them out of habit. I've also noticed that Digikey tended in the past to be out of stock of certain values of Nichicon caps more often than Panasonics, so I usually look for Panasonics first. The very-low-impedance range of electrolytics from both of these companies are far superior, in objective technical terms, to anything that was available back when whatever you might be recapping was built.
When you're shopping for capacitors, the most important things to consider are (in order): Voltage rating, physical size and lead spacing, availability, capacitance, equivalent series resistance or ESR, inductance (these last three combine to affect overall impedance, which is also sometimes specified in the catalogs at a particular frequency), dissipation factor, dielectric absorption, temperature rating (which affects lifespan), rated service life, price, and dielectric material. The dielectric material and construction will have a profound effect on the range of capacitance and physical size, so you generally choose a particular type of capacitance based on how much room you have and how much capacitance the circuit requires before you worry about which brand to choose. There's a loose correlation between price, size, capacitance, and sonic impact when it comes to different capacitor types - electrolytics are considered to have the biggest sonic impact, but they're available in the largest capacitance in a compact size for a reasonable price. They're used in power supplies and wherever you need more than about 50 microfarads capacitance, or more than about 5 microfarads if space or cost are factors. Film caps tend to be used in audio coupling applications and are typically available in the 1 nanofarad to about 50 microfarads. Film caps are available with teflon, polystyrene, polypropylene, and polyester (Mylar) dielectrics (among others), in approximate descending order of quality, cost, and size per capacitance. Ceramic capacitors are available in the range of 1 picofarad to 100 nanofarads and are typically used at high frequency, such as RF suppresion, amplifier phase compensation, etc. They're often used in parallel with electrolytic caps in power supply circuits in order to improve the high-frequency performance. They've got a reputation for poor audio performance, but the NPO (also called COG) ceramics actually perform very well and are very stable. Mica capacitors are available in the 1-1000 picofarad range and are also useful at high frequencies and where stability is needed. There are other types of capacitors out there, but these are the major types. There are a lot of parameters and variables to consider, and selection is very application-dependent.

[Wavebourn]

Wirewound are the best for audio (however, their possible inductivity must be taken in account), second are metal film resistors.

[Jim Williams]

Resistors:
Carbon composition = vintage sound, vintage hum.
Carbon film = cheap, low noise, 5%.
Metal film = quiet, clear, 1% or better.
Bulk foil = the absolute best, audiophile quality, very expensive.
Wirewound = limited to low ohms value, some magnetic and capacitive considerations, best for high current speaker crossovers.

Caps:
Polystyrene/polypropylene film = best for audio, very linear, low losses.
Polycarbonate/mylar = softer sound, less details.
Silver mica = very fast, musical euphonic qualities, sweet silver sound.
Silver foil, paper in oil = the absolute best signal quality. Expensive.
Ceramics = poor signal quality, some with NPO temp grades are excellent for out of band audio filtering.
Electrolytics = the worst signal quality. Low impedance or high end audio types (like Rubycon Black Gates) are best, none are good alone. Always bypass with a quality poly film cap to emulate a no cap sound.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[yaniv]

Thanks you all guys !

It`s very helpfull info..

[Wavebourn]

Teflon caps are the best for sound, though big...

[cornutt]

The modular synth guys use polystyrene caps for critical applications. They are hard to find, though. Carbon film, 5% is pretty much everyone's bulk-purchase choice in resistors these days. 1% metal film resistors aren't nearly as expensive as they used to be, but they tend to be used on an as-needed basis because it's rather difficult to keep all the possible values in stock.

There's no way I'd ever use a wirewound resistor in an audio circuit, unless it was a power circuit and there was just no other practical way to do it.

[markk02474]

Resistors: The best I've used are Vishay S102 bulk metal foil, $12ea and up from Michael Percy, so I use only in critical locations. Next best, Holco H8, now out of production, but some old stock exists. Some people claim Tantalum film resistors are the best, though, again those made by Shinkoh are out of production.

Capacitors: I use Black Gate (N, NX, and NX HiQ types) when I need a high value in a coupling application. Some claim they are also the best for power supplys too, but expensive to do. I've used Panasonic FA, then FC, and now FM low ESR electrolytics in power supplies, and they're good, though others are popular too.

V-cap Teflon film capacitors are reputed to be the best available. They are quite large and expensive. The most common use is for coupling in tube gear. I've used Teflon caps made by CRC (also out of production!) in RIAA networks and speaker crossovers, and they sounded great (better than polypropelyne or polystyrene).

Of late, I'm most using Black Gate NX HiQ 47uf/6.3v parts to replace DC blocking capacitors and replacing opamps with LM4562's in most everything - CD/DVD players, sound cards, receivers etc..

[ulysses]

Originally Posted by cornutt

The modular synth guys use polystyrene caps for critical applications. They are hard to find, though. Carbon film, 5% is pretty much everyone's bulk-purchase choice in resistors these days. 1% metal film resistors aren't nearly as expensive as they used to be, but they tend to be used on an as-needed basis because it's rather difficult to keep all the possible values in stock.

That may be true in the synth world, but in the pro audio world, pretty much all reputable manufacturers use 1% metal film resistors primarily. There are exceptions of course for certain applications, and there are some old-school purists who think that since carbon composition was used back in the day that they have to use it now too. But most of us are using metal film most of the time.

[cornutt]

Originally Posted by ulysses

That may be true in the synth world, but in the pro audio world, pretty much all reputable manufacturers use 1% metal film resistors primarily. There are exceptions of course for certain applications, and there are some old-school purists who think that since carbon composition was used back in the day that they have to use it now too. But most of us are using metal film most of the time.

Interesting info. Thanks. My DW took some electronics courses back in the early '80s (well before I met her). The other night, she was looking over an MOTM-440 LPF that I'm building. She was interested to see that most of the resistors were 5% types, and she wanted to know if I still used 10% resistors. I told here that I don't even know anyone that sells 10% types any more.

[sekim]

Pretty much what Jim said with the caveats that the carbons are generally said to display their mojo at higher voltages (i.e. as plate resistors in high voltage tube gear). That said, I once did a BF Deluxe with *gasp* metal film for the plate resistors and honestly couldn't tell a difference...when I scored a pile of vintage carbons I put those in (*un-gasp*) and still couldn't tell a difference. The second caveat being I've not heard any polystyrenes I liked, but then I've only tried a few, maybe Jim will chime in with some vendors/models he's liked.

[58Precision]

so here's a bump for an old thread.

i'm thinking of making an 1176. or an EQP1A. some sort of DIY project for some new sounds. what caps would YOU use if you were making one of these? siver mica? sprague orange drops?

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by 58Precision

i'm thinking of making an 1176. or an EQP1A.

I've made both and selected VERY different parts for each for various reasons: Do you want a recreation or a modern abstract of the original circuit? Of course transformers, inductors and tubes will help, but the resistors and caps also make a difference.
For example, regarding the resistors I chose: the 1176 got 1% metal film but the EQP1A got NOS (measured) Allen and Bradley Carbon comps. But, capacitors are the real difference.

[ulysses]

Originally Posted by 58Precision

i'm thinking of making an 1176. or an EQP1A. some sort of DIY project for some new sounds. what caps would YOU use if you were making one of these? siver mica? sprague orange drops?

I would use high quality modern components (Panasonic FM or Nichicon HE where electrolytics are needed, Wima film caps where appropriate, and NPO ceramics as necessary). Which would make my build a less authentic replica. But then, I have no interest in building authentic replicas of old audio products.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by sekim

Pretty much what Jim said with the caveats that the carbons are generally said to display their mojo at higher voltages (i.e. as plate resistors in high voltage tube gear). That said, I once did a BF Deluxe with *gasp* metal film for the plate resistors and honestly couldn't tell a difference...when I scored a pile of vintage carbons I put those in (*un-gasp*) and still couldn't tell a difference. The second caveat being I've not heard any polystyrenes I liked, but then I've only tried a few, maybe Jim will chime in with some vendors/models he's liked.

I dumped the 100k ohm plate resistors out of my Fender amps 25 years ago. I've always used metal films since in my guitar amps. I like the smoother tone as carbon comps have a bit of aural excitment. As I saw mostly carbon comp resistors used in botique guitar amps at Namm, I used Dales in the Basson guitar amps along with 1250 volt Wima FKP-1 polypropylene film caps, their best series. I used Cornel Dublier silver mica caps for the top boost and hf EQ. I still see ceramic disc caps used for that, ouch!

You can get cheap polystyrene caps from Mouser, but I don't think they are that great. I use Reliable Capacitors for polystyrene film caps made in Santa Fe Springs, CA. They also make the MIT MultiCaps and the MIT polystyrene caps.

If you want an older sound, skip the polyprops and polystyrenes and use quality mylar caps. They tend to have more midrange glow without the top end details those other caps have. They are still better than electrolytic caps if you can fit them.

For that old time sound, carbon comps or carbon film resistors and mylar film and 85 degree general purpose caps. For a clearer sound, good metal film resistors, polyprop film caps and tantalum substitute grade electrolytic caps bypassed with an additional polypropylene film cap.

For that older mid level crappy 80's sound, use carbon film resistors, 85 degree electrolytic caps and metalized mylar caps, those Japanese green dipped ones, you know, they look like "chicklets". Be sure to sprinkle some 5534/2 and 072 opamps into the stew.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[tsvisser]

What do you guys think of the Vishay/BC MMKP and MKP series? Are they a world of difference from the likes of the Panasonic FC? When selecting caps, the Vishay/BC models seemed to have a wide variety of values, and good availability from Digikey. I was using Vishay/Dale resistors, so it seemed like a logical choice for me at the time, but now am second guessing myself as I am reading posts from people who have much more intimate knowledge with circuit design here. This is audio circuitry, not power supply applications.

[ulysses]

There's a world of difference because the MKP and MMKP are film caps, and the Panasonic FC are electrolytic caps. Completely different range of values, sizes, and applications.

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by ulysses

There's a world of difference because the MKP and MMKP are film caps, and the Panasonic FC are electrolytic caps. Completely different range of values, sizes, and applications.

I think I jumped inappropriately into this conversation then, because you guys were talking about caps for high voltage / power applications, correct? I was referring to low-level audio signal path applications. Sorry if I didn't read/comprehend the thread first before posting, but would appreciate it if anyone has an opinion on the MKP/MMKP for audio signal applications.