Because once you start actually mixing, using it's EQ's and Compressors, Inserting outboard inserts on channels it becomes a whole other world of amazingness that I can't get out of a computer.
I know what you mean, I own a console and mix on it, but regarding the sound I can't help thinking there's a waste of money somewhere.
Just speaking of your test, 2 people out of 4 prefered the plug in mix, 1 out of 4 prefered the ITB mix... I spoted the C but they were all so similar I had to have 6 or 7 listening and I wasn't 100% of my choice.
That said I'll never be back mixing in the box again.
Best.
I know what you mean, I own a console and mix on it, but regarding the sound I can't help thinking there's a waste of money somewhere.
Just speaking of your test, 2 people out of 4 prefered the plug in mix, 1 out of 4 prefered the ITB mix... I spoted the C but they were all so similar I had to have 6 or 7 listening and I wasn't 100% of my choice.
That said I'll never be back mixing in the box again.
Best.
That is what I realized most people picked the Waves mix. I think allot of it has to do with whats current. Most songs out now are all mixed in the box with plugins. So when people hear the console that doesn't sound like a plug-in it doesn't sound "pro" or "hot" anymore. Consoles will only be for the people that can maintain them and afford their ridiculous monthly power bill. The rewards (for me) are so worth it though. I'm interested in trying AlexB's CLC with the EQ's and comps to see how it compares.
I think allot of it has to do with whats current. Most songs out now are all mixed in the box with plugins. So when people hear the console that doesn't sound like a plug-in it doesn't sound "pro" or "hot" anymore.
Spot on me thinks. Sadly. Plastic is the new black.
Aaron if its not too much to ask I would LOVE it if you could conduct this same test only with acoustic instruments (drums, grts, bass, vox, etc). Nothing against computer generated sounds but I think we would hear a more dramatic difference between the 4 with acoustic instruments.
Thanks for the test. It was fun and educational. I'm saving the files in my comp to always have around for reference and to show people when they're over my place lol.
Thanks everyone for the input. I'll do that next time I'm running a acoustic session. I might even jump on the C7 in the tracking room later on tonight. I'm mixing another record for my solo stuff so I'll be doing more summing shootouts soon!
Thanks for taking the time Aaron, nice test!
It's funny because there's a nice tone to the chorus vocals at 0:50 that both NLS and VCC lack of. I suspect the compressors are part of what makes that differences, I like the ITB version the best after the SSL, good for my budget!
A.
Hi Aaron,
thanks for doing this test and for posting the results!
Seems I was quite right for a change (I usually fail at these).
Nice sound from the console!
Just wondering, what oversampling settings did you use on the VCC?
In my experience, using 8xOS does make quite a difference in tightness.
I´ve read this tip in a post here somewhere to load up a bass drum sample, put the VCC API on top and go through the OS settings and it does have a nice effect on higher settings in my experience.
The problem is... Nothing I do is able to match the low end of the console. People say that SSL's are pretty flat but it's not true. There's so much it's doing to the sound. Even when I used VCC and VTM no matter what I did, I couldn't get it to sound as thick and heavy as the console. I'll give AlexB consoles a shot!
That is what I realized most people picked the Waves mix.
Interesting test. I think the reason most people(myself included) preferred the Waves mix is because, when listening through speakers(I'm listening through a small pair of JBL Duets), it has more punch. When I listen through headphones(Sony MDR7506), C has a richness that A doesn't have that sounds great, but there's an amount of saturation that is swallowing the snare transients. The SSL setting on VCC(which I have and like) is NOT my favorite...
I spent many years mixing on SSL consoles. Love the sound of them, but I'm finding that really talented mixers are getting serious quality ITB. Excellent example of the potential of NLS. I'm really digging that plug. Especially the Mike(EMI) console...
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I went back to listen to the mixes again on my HS10's and still can't put my finger on C. Waves mix sounds punchier/more powerful. But even when I focus in on the highs and low end. I really don't hear what is it about the SSL mix that stands out or makes it obvious that its the real thing. Next round I'm gonna bring out ear buds and portable speakers and see if anything is more apparent.
I went back to listen to the mixes again on my HS10's and still can't put my finger on C. Waves mix sounds punchier/more powerful. But even when I focus in on the highs and low end. I really don't hear what is it about the SSL mix that stands out or makes it obvious that its the real thing. Next round I'm gonna bring out ear buds and portable speakers and see if anything is more apparent.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
C has a fullness factor going on. Only word I can use to describe is "syrup" It sounds like it has more weight. Think of sidebands on analog tape. Allot like that, everything else sounds hollow in comparison
Alright! I hope everyone is ready for round 2... This time I got a bit more extreme with this shootout. Not only is there summing going on but now I've used the EQ's and compressors on the board. Up to this point nothing I've done with any plugin can match the low end of the console. So this is a 4072 G+ series against Slate's VCC WITH VTM added to try to get the low end bigger. I also used Waves SSL Channel strips for the compression and EQ to match the board. Alight so witch one is the console slutz?
The low end has more definition in the B mix.
The high mids and highs have more "air" in the A mix.
Well you've lost me there... they sure sound different but I can't say one is really better than the other. The compressor seems to behave very differently on those 2 samples.
Sure... PM me your email if you would like to try.
That's just the thing though. Even with VCC and VTM I can't get the ITB to match up with how colossal the board sounds. The way it's advertised is like I'll never need a console again and I can throw the tape deck out. I don't know, I think next it's time to fire up the A800 and do a shootout with it. If anyone has Nebula CLC I would like to try it out!
Alright everyone I have an update. I've stumbled upon a magic formula witch seems to duplicate the sound of the console pretty well, it requires allot of plugins though.
Okay so first insert the Waves NLS SSL (Spike) on every single channel of the mix. Leave the drive at 0
Next add the NLS Nevo Buss on the master fader set the drive to 6
Now we add VCC Neve on every single channel with drive set to 6
Then we have to put a VCC Bus on the master set it to Trident
It's time for SSL Channel strips for the EQ and comp pop it on every channel EQ and compress as needed
Next go to the master buss and insert the Vertigo by brainworx I found it sounds most like a real compressor
Next add the Slate VTM set to the mastering deck GP9 30ips but dont drive it too hard
Finally, the stereo image on the console is different so to compensate for this I added the Waves S1 stereo imager and just opened it up a bit.
And there you have it a real SSL in the box. Of course they sound different but they both sound really really good. I did it all at 96K I cant speak for lower samplerates. Give it a try, you'll be glad you did. I wil post files soon.
C has a fullness factor going on. Only word I can use to describe is "syrup" It sounds like it has more weight. Think of sidebands on analog tape. Allot like that, everything else sounds hollow in comparison
Thanks so much for the description. I can definitely hear it now.
As far as the new mix. I hope I'm right on this one but I think its obvious A is the board and B is plugs.
A has that weight you describe and B sounds kinda hollow.
If you guessed C then you were right! C is the real SSL with the center buss compressor.
A is Waves with the SSLComp Plugin
B is VCC with the Glue
C Real deal
D is ITB
No matter what I did with Waves or VCC I couldn't get the low end to sound like the real console. The console, if I could describe it sounds like someone laced a rope through the music and then tightened the living hell out of it. There's also something going on in the high end that I can't describe. There is a sense of weight that the console has that I still feel is missing from the plugins. I also picked out the real console in the Slate shootout on here against the exact console they modeled. I guess I'm just 1 of the 10% that can still hear the difference. I also can't get vocals to sound close with the plugins. On the console they get this "thing" to them that just sounds... Like a classic record. For me I'll still be mixing on the real console.
Thanks everyone for participating!
Once is luck, twice is science. I could pick the ITB mix, B sounded in the most slightest of ways better than the others. I should check out the Glue. My bus comp and summing unit are up for sale. Got the Kemper profiling amp yesterday, and in a few weeks my amps will up too. When technology replaces hardware to my ears I sell it.
Once is luck, twice is science. I could pick the ITB mix, B sounded in the most slightest of ways better than the others. I should check out the Glue. My bus comp and summing unit are up for sale. Got the Kemper profiling amp yesterday, and in a few weeks my amps will up too. When technology replaces hardware to my ears I sell it.
Thought I saw you had sold the RJR comp already....if not, please pm me, as I'd love to take it off your hands given it has the required features.....
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have confidence in your ability to rise above the foam - crufty
Pretty sure in the latest test that B is the SSL and A is the Waves Plugins. B has a better presence and less scoop + the sort of focused but still round low end like an SSL. More glue too. I'd be suprised if it was vice versa.
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Markus Stock
Engineer/Co-owner of:
www.studioe.de
I find A more musical than B. It matches more the vibe of the song. That's what matter. I am gonna try your magic formula to imitate the console thx for the tips !
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