15th September 2012
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#1 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter | a strange result- motu vs. metric halo AD
After much obsessive researching, I figured it was time to sign up for gearslutz and post something of my own. This is my first post, so if the file format is not ideal, just let me know.
I'm trying to figure out whether i need to replace my motu traveler as a standalone AD converter, or use it as an addition to my uln2. Can you tell the difference? It's kind of a BS little track just getting the full width of the piano in a couple different styles, so forgive the aloof and unmusical playing...
i recorded my yamaha C1 piano with two neumann tlm193's into the pres in the uln2. Firewire into the daw from the ULN2 on one of the tracks.
The other track I took two sends and patched them into the traveler line in 1/4 inch as to avoid as much analog circuitry as possible and hit the converters themselves. Then digital out back into the uln2 and into the daw.
one is the traveler, and the other is a metric halo uln2.
track A i believe is about 1db louder so that should be adjusted.... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h651mdgi1we4vux/g_DoJ2-UiH | 
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15th September 2012
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#2 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter |
95 views, one vote, and no replies? is it that tough? or crappy?  | |
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25th September 2012
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#3 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
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Hey,
I'm searching about the same upgrade. I have the traveler Mk3 as well, but thinking to change it with MH 2882 legacy or expanded.My goal is upgrading to a publishing quality in order to take the tracks to a studio for mix and master.
I don't know if it's a wise decision to sell the new Motu with good connectivity (Firewire, Midi, optical, s/pdif, AES, Word clock) and enough pres(4) plus standalone DSP soooo cheap to buy the 12 years old interface 1000$ more expensive with not very good pres and NO front panel control nubs and Midi!!!!
Before this plan, I was thinking to add the Apogee Ensemble or Duet2 or a good two channel converter with pres like Api A2D beside my traveler.
Any Idea? 
Anyway, I'm not an audio engineer, but as a musician there is an obvious difference in bass notes in Shootout "A" (Much richer). It might seems funny, but chords sound different in "A" as well, like different piano than the "B".
Hope other guys help this comparison..
Cheers
__________________
Mbp 15" core i7 2.0-16GB Ram-256GB SSD, Metric Halo 2882 2D, Apogee Duet, Yamaha NS10M, Neumann kh120.
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26th September 2012
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#4 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter |
Keep in mind that i'm only testing the conversion and not the preamps. The preamps on the traveler to my ears are not professional quality. I knew that going in because the difference is night and day. It's more difficult for me to hear the differences in AD conversion quality between the metric halo and traveler. Therefore, this test isolated the only variable to be the converters. In fact, it seems as though most people prefer the sound of the traveler. It would be nice if we had some professional engineers chime in here with solution and/or opinions! i'm just a lowly musician myself!
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27th September 2012
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#5 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
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Yesterday I talked with our studio engineer in university and played the files for him there. He said the image in A is better than B, he tried to explain it to me in this way that both recordings have the sound, but in A you can hear some of the room as well. It's believed when you mix so many tracks of A or B kind then the difference become more obvious in perspective.
Thanks for reminding about pres...
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28th September 2012
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#6 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter |
i also find it interesting that with now 500 views, you and one other person took the challenge...ha!
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30th September 2012
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#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Paris
Posts: 805
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did you patch the uln2 into the return inputs to hit the converter without going into the pre ? otherwise it color a little the sound i noticed
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30th September 2012
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#8 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter |
which unit are you referring to, fred? the description is in the first post....
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1st October 2012
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#9 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 177
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If you use the sends, to the motu how did you patch it into the returns?
Anyway, the uln-2 is amazing because of its pres. There are better converters out there, namely the LIO-8/ULN-8 range of metric halo.
At any rate, uln-2 AD is enough to make a commercial album as is the traveler as are most of sound cards you see bashed on gearslutz.
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1st October 2012
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#10 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter |
I didn't use the returns on the uln-2. I used digital output from the motu back into the uln-2. I don't see a vote!
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1st October 2012
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Paris
Posts: 805
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i havent listened cause your test is a bit flawed , you should record first on the metric halo ,then on the motu both used as standalone so both are not digitally clocked .
is it the uln 2 expanded?
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1st October 2012
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2005 Location: New England
Posts: 1,853
| Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppa  95 views, one vote, and no replies? is it that tough? or crappy? | Don't have dropbox, file sizes are huge, and you're asking readers to do a manual adjustment on one of the levels. We're all lazy here, don't you know? LOL.
Anyway, there was an extensive converter comparison here a while back that tested a butt-load of converters using null-test analysis software and IIRC, the MOTU stuff hangs with the "big boys", no problem. If the issue is that you're not hearing a "night-and-day" difference between the two units (converters only)... that would explain it....
Cheers.
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1st October 2012
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#13 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract i havent listened cause your test is a bit flawed , you should record first on the metric halo ,then on the motu both used as standalone so both are not digitally clocked .
is it the uln 2 expanded? | Yes it's the uln 2 expanded.
i figured it was going to be more of an issue if i changed the source material (which would be necessary, even if i got two takes very close).
Also, this is how i will be doing it; using the uln-2 as a master clock. I could do a different test if people ask for it. i wouldn't mind determining the differences in clocks and converters rather than just converters....if that makes sense...
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1st October 2012
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#14 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter |
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings Don't have dropbox, file sizes are huge, and you're asking readers to do a manual adjustment on one of the levels. We're all lazy here, don't you know? LOL.
Anyway, there was an extensive converter comparison here a while back that tested a butt-load of converters using null-test analysis software and IIRC, the MOTU stuff hangs with the "big boys", no problem. If the issue is that you're not hearing a "night-and-day" difference between the two units (converters only)... that would explain it....
Cheers. | goot point. do you have a suggestion as to how to post files without, for example, dropbox, and/or reducing file size while maintaining specificity needed to evaluate converter, or even clocking quality?
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3rd October 2012
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#15 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2005 Location: New England
Posts: 1,853
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Shorter clips w/Apple lossless format? (most everyone has iTunes to play back these)
And make sure you match the levels properly or guys'll be all over you.
Again, if the Traveler sounds good, then don't worry about it. It's all too easy to get sucked into the bullshit around here. This site is good for catching up on rumors, jib-jabbing, etc., but you'll rarely get an honest, informed opinion on gear, listening test or not. #natureoftheinternet
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4th October 2012
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,107
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It is quite obvious to my ears that B is better than A. So B shall be the ULN2.
For balancing the RMS levels, A shall be attenuated by -2.4 dB.
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5th October 2012
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#17 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 177
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The thing about this shootouts is that unless you know what the original sounds like it is pointless.
Add some harmonics and everything sounds "better". Some people do not want that in their soundcards.
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7th October 2012
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#18 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest It is quite obvious to my ears that B is better than A. So B shall be the ULN2.
For balancing the RMS levels, A shall be attenuated by -2.4 dB. | "better?"  | |
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7th October 2012
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#19 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,107
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Originally Posted by bigpoppa "better?" | Well, I preferred it...
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7th October 2012
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#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,223
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I don't know much about the Travelers but I'd have no problem putting an 828 against a ULN2. They're not as good as the ULN8/LIO8. You can check the listening thread I have in the mastering forum if you like. Search for a thread started by me with Hilo in the name. I put it up against Hilo, Lavry, LIO8, Orpheus.
Oh and just use 2 DAWs if you want to record simultaneously with each unit running its own clock.
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7th October 2012
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#21 | | Gear interested
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 10
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest Well, I preferred it... | may i ask why? i'm trying to grow my ears a bit in this regard
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7th October 2012
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,107
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The sounds is a bit lusher. It might be due to some nice distortion. Then A would be cleaner and I might be wrong: is it the ULN2 ?
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