Snare preamp test!

[_Mark]

1, to me, seemed the most clear. Very well defined, and made the snare sound even better.
4 seemed to be second best to it.
What mic was this?

[Showcase]

In every test, its a Telefunken MD421, only because we lent all our mic stands out tonight and only got one left was one with a md421 mic mount on it haha

[Knox]

It's funny how people are seemingly so obsessed with the snare these days. In the old days we obviously cared, but it wasn't the obsession it is these days. Which to me is interesting because the snare sounds from the old days (many times) sound more natural. I had a really good producer / engineer spend almost two full days JUST working on the snare sound recently, (on an indie band!!) He would get all worked up, patching combination after combination of mic / pres / eqs (then drive down to the music store come back with new snares, take them back) . . on and on. In the end we ended up using a Black Beauty that was here the whole time with an API 512 / to 560 w/ 57 on top / 160 on the side of the drum (simple enough) btw . . I have a GREAT drum room so it wasn't the room! . . . I wanted to kill the guy, as did the band. No offense to the OP, it's just amazing how many threads are about the snare and how much people talk about recording it THESE days.

[Showcase]

Originally Posted by Knox

It's funny how people are seemingly so obsessed with the snare these days. In the old days we obviously cared, but it wasn't the obsession it is these days. Which to me is interesting because the snare sounds from the old days (many times) sound more natural. I had a really good producer / engineer spend almost two full days JUST working on the snare sound recently, (on an indie band!!) He would get all worked up, patching combination after combination of mic / pres / eqs (then drive down to the music store come back with new snares, take them back) . . on and on. In the end we ended up using a Black Beauty that was here the whole time with an API 512 / to 560 w/ 57 on top / 160 on the side of the drum (simple enough) btw . . I have a GREAT drum room so it wasn't the room! . . . I wanted to kill the guy, as did the band. No offense to the OP, it's just amazing how many threads are about the snare and how much people talk about recording it THESE days.

Sounds obsession to me, spending 2 days working on the snare sound

[Knox]

Originally Posted by Showcase

Sounds obsession to me, spending 2 days working on the snare sound

ya think? *smile*

[Showcase]

Snare sound is the most interesting part to record, dont take that away from me haha, I know, I need help

[kevbrowne]

True
It is the part of the kit that is pretty much down to the drummer to get a good sound.
If it isn't hit right it the best chain in the world isn't going to make it sound amazing.
Better yes but not awesome

[Showcase]

Originally Posted by kevbrowne

True
It is the part of the kit that is pretty much down to the drummer to get a good sound.
If it isn't hit right it the best chain in the world isn't going to make it sound amazing.
Better yes but not awesome

Exactly, drummers... if you would even listen to 10% about what I have to say, we have a hit record

[kevbrowne]

Ha! Yeah, I always say big drums or big cymbals.

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Are these recorded in the file in the same order you listed them in?

I liked them in this order:
1
5
4
2
3

3 sounded strange to me. Transformer terminated correctly?

One has that "tick" in the attack, and does sound very API to me, but wouldn't be too surprised if it was something else.

Thanks for doing that. People say preamps don't make a difference. They say things like "Any good preamp will work, just patch up the console's direct outs, and go...".

I used to do just that. 24 channels of the same deal on everything.

While this is true and has always worked fine, I can certainly hear differences, and at that point, I think you pick the one you like most. Better to have options than not, as long as you don't get obsessive and bogged down with auditioning them to the point that it hampers your workflow.

Could you make a record with any of them? Of course. Still, people back in the day used one flavor of console's preamp across the whole record. Had great success with records that charted for decades, unlike today. That's cool, but they still also chose carefully which studio and console they liked best for each upcoming project.


So it's no different to me, maybe a natural progression.

Now we get to go one step further, picking studio, console, and whatever flavor of mic amps you want in any given room. I see it as a plus.

Two days is NUTZ though...although, if I had an unlimited budget, and a year lockout or something. And the band was on a permanent recording vacation...

I'd wear an intern or assistant out banging on the snare I think...sure.

Why not. Just do it and have the band come in later, so they are not frustrated. I could spend a day. Two? ....eh...I think I'd go nutz.

Thanks,
john

[Showcase]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

Are these recorded in the file in the same order you listed them in?

I liked them in this order:
1
5
4
2
3

3 sounded strange to me. Transformer terminated correctly?

One has that "tick" in the attack, and does sound very API to me, but wouldn't be too surprised if it was something else.

Thanks for doing that. People say preamps don't make a difference. They say things like "Any good preamp will work, just patch up the console's direct outs, and go...".

I used to do just that. 24 channels of the same deal on everything.

While this is true and has always worked fine, I can certainly hear differences, and at that point, I think you pick the one you like most. Better to have options than not, as long as you don't get obsessive and bogged down with auditioning them to the point that it hampers your workflow.

Could you make a record with any of them? Of course. Still, people back in the day used one flavor of console's preamp across the whole record. Had great success with records that charted for decades, unlike today. That's cool, but they still also chose carefully which studio and console they liked best for each upcoming project.


So it's no different to me, maybe a natural progression.

Now we get to go one step further, picking studio, console, and whatever flavor of mic amps you want in any given room. I see it as a plus.

Two days is NUTZ though...although, if I had an unlimited budget, and a year lockout or something. And the band was on a permanent recording vacation...

I'd wear an intern or assistant out banging on the snare I think...sure.

Why not. Just do it and have the band come in later, so they are not frustrated. I could spend a day. Two? ....eh...I think I'd go nutz.

Thanks,
john

Third one was the neve 1073 LB, terminated or not, what do you hear that is strange? (dont like this preamp myself very much)

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Wow...ok, I can't really easily describe it. It displays the pitch raising and lowering...just a hair, a minute fluctuation of the head tension I guess. Thing is, I don't hear it to that extreme on the others. In the mid range, it almost has this slight affect akin to if you put your finger on the head and press down as you strike the drum, you know how the pitch goes up and down with more / less tension?

It makes you wonder if the others are not displaying it and it is hidden, or this one pre is exaggerating it some?

Strange. You'd never hear it in a mix though, but it is weird that you can hear it more on that one preamp.

The rest I liked for either being fat and full, having a rounded attack or having a lean mean tone with a sharper attack.

On second listen, I do like 5, it is nice and full. Could work well on acoustic stuff where you have lots of room.

Do you have any super clean pres there like Hardy, True, Millenia, Gordon etc?

It would be cool to hear one of these as a reference maybe.

Thanks again!

j

[Showcase]

[Ward Pike]

I went straight to the MP3 file and listened. Twice. To my surprise, I liked 5 best. Followed by 1. Normally, I would expect the API to get my nod, but the 1073 really pulled it off here. I could hear all the snare.

I realized the details here can be measured as minutia, but I could hear it.

Enjoyed this a lot. Thank you!

[Showcase]

added the SSL 4000 console preamp to the test ...to my own suprise, actually not that bad!

[jrod9900]

Interesting stuff...

JROD

[cyjanopan]

5th one is distorted and louder, don't you hear that guys ?

[Showcase]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

5th one is distorted and louder, don't you hear that guys ?

I think you mean the Telefunken V76? number 6? In that case yes, (I tried to be as close to distortion as possible) I have lowered the gain and uploaded again ...keep in mind that all clips are normalized, some preamps have little to much attack going on that makes them sound less louder, and like the 1073/V76 is starting to compress the sound which can also "help" in terms of the overall volume in this example

[Rolf Ebitsch]

Originally Posted by Knox

In the old days we obviously cared, but it wasn't the obsession it is these days. Which to me is interesting because the snare sounds from the old days sound more natural.

+1

Exact,

The more older the productions, the more better the snare sound.
What do we learn from that...

R.

[Showcase]

Originally Posted by Rolf Ebitsch

+1

Exact,

The more older the productions, the more better the snare sound.
What do we learn from that...

R.

better? ...for the time being, and that music, yes, today... I think not!

[cyjanopan]

Originally Posted by Showcase

I think you mean the Telefunken V76? number 6? In that case yes, (I tried to be as close to distortion as possible) I have lowered the gain and uploaded again ...keep in mind that all clips are normalized, some preamps have little to much attack going on that makes them sound less louder, and like the 1073/V76 is starting to compress the sound which can also "help" in terms of the overall volume in this example

yes 6th one, sorry for confusion. Anyway, all of them sound ok, and all of them sound really good with some 1176 type compression going on

[IHateMyUsername]

1: Punchy. Like.
2: Snarey. Vintagey.
3: Hollow, mid-rangey, uneven. No like.
4: Also punchy.
5: Beefy! METAL.
6: Punchy. Like.
7: Also midrangey.

Liked the API, but I'm sad to see that the 1073 was one of my favorites. :( Way too expensive! Same with the V76. :P The only ones I really wasn't that convinced about were the 1073LB and the SSL.

[superwack]

Hi, thanks for doing this!

It seems that both links go to the same file (SNARE.MP3) any chance of getting the .wav file for better comparison?

Thanks!

[Showcase]

Originally Posted by superwack

Hi, thanks for doing this!

It seems that both links go to the same file (SNARE.MP3) any chance of getting the .wav file for better comparison?

Thanks!

Sorry for this, its fixed now...

Btw, Im going to add a couple more preamps I did

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Hey, give us something real clean for a ref. Are you purposely running ALL of these into a bit of distortion?

After listening again to that clip, it does sound like some weird IMD or something going on in #3. Nobody hears this but me?

I don't hear this on the rest at all. I mean, I hear distortion, but not intermod stuff. Out of town, listening on some Grados, checking piles of emails.

john

[K. Osborne]

This test is completely void. They are different performances each time. Drum heads shift and move and change with temperature, time, and how much you hit them, and how hard.

They sound really close. The only one that seemed troubling was #3 to me - sounded like some weird midrange thing going on, a knock that was different. But again, he could have been hitting the head inches away from where he was on the previous take. Or he could have hit just SLIGHTLY harder.

Real test would be to mult the signal into two pres, and just do A/B. Or at LEAST have him just play R/L/R/L eighth notes to a click, as you switch out the preamps every bar or two - that would still be a different performance but it'd be easier to judge.