Blind Summing Shootout - Slate VCC 4K ITB vs ITB vs 32 Ch SSL Analog Summing Box
anguswoodhead
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#1
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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Blind Summing Shootout - Slate VCC 4K ITB vs ITB vs 32 Ch SSL Analog Summing Box

As a follow up to my previous summing shootout thread.....
Here is a blind shootout between
Slate VCC 4k ITB (software L2 on 2 buss to prevent overs)
ITB (no VCC) (software L2 on 2 buss to prevent overs)
Analog summed - SSL converters, SSL 32 Ch mix box (hardware L2 on 2 buss to prevent overs)

mp3's are 16/96 320KB
There is no EQ and no processing at all on each 2 buss except the L2 (software or hardware)
The L2 was only holding about 1dB on peaks in each clip.

You decide which is which.
I've tried to level match as close as possible using the meters on the Slate FG-X mastering plugin.

Recorded at Erinwood Studios. Erin Ontario.
Mixed by Ted Gerber Zipthedog inc.
I'm A Carpenter - Larry Kurtz, Larry and the Lawbreakers.
I was given 9 stereo stems.

Post your guess then I will pm you the results.
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 Carpenter Clip 1.mp3 (3.51 MB, 3983 views)
File Type: mp3 Carpenter Clip 2.mp3 (3.51 MB, 3488 views)
File Type: mp3 Carpenter Clip 3.mp3 (3.51 MB, 3413 views)
#2
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
  #2
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I like 2 the best.

then I like 1 followed by three ( i had to edit that, I had written two insead of three...)


So I suppose

1. VCC
2. SSL
3. ITB

cheers

Wiz
#3
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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I definitely prefer 1 and 2 to 3... 1 (to me) sounds punchier, and a little louder (on these crappy headphones), and 2 seems to have more 'mojo' to my ears (in this context). I may be wrong. I'm torn between the two, but I'd say

1. VCC
2. SSL
3. ITB
#4
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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laptop says 3 is the analog.
anguswoodhead
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29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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As well as your guess make sure you say which one is your fav and why
#6
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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not sure if its due to the mp3 format, but #1 has some slight distortion @ 28 sec. in the Ryth EG Slider Chords that #2 & #3 don't have. I actually preferred #1 as I heard (what I thought was) more depth but if its got a bit more saturation than the other two, that confuses me as to which is which. If I had to guess, I'd pick OTB Summing as #1, Plain ITB #2, VCC #3.
#7
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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hummmmm....
I think #1 is ITB
#2 is VCC
#3 is OTB
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#8
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
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1: VCC - I hear a lot of distortion on this one. Never tried the VCC but I'm thinking it adds some kind of distortion.
2: ITB - sounds the cleanest of them all. Sounds a bit boring and two dimensional.
3: SSL - I think this one stands out. Sounds seems more separated. I feel the sounds that are mixed in the center feels "more mono" and the stereo feels "more stereo" where in clip 1 and 2 its slightly more cluttered. I also hear crispier hi-mids.
#9
29th May 2012
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1. SSL
2. ITB
3. VCC

I prefer 1.

EDIT: After second (5th) listening:

1. VCC
2. ITB
3. SSL

I prefer 3. cause of it's 3D effect, then 2. cause it's (the most) more dynamic than to me the least favorite sample 1.
Saturation level of the 1st sample fooled me at first. Something's weird going on with that sample...

Interesting!
#10
29th May 2012
Old 29th May 2012
  #10
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My guess:

1- VCC
2- ITB
3- SSL
#11
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl View Post
1. SSL
2. ITB
3. VCC

I prefer 1.

EDIT: After second (5th) listening:

1. VCC
2. ITB
3. SSL

I prefer 3. cause of it's 3D effect, then 2. cause it's (the most) more dynamic than to me the least favorite sample 1.
Saturation level of the 1st sample fooled me at first. Something's weird going on with that sample...

Interesting!
To add a bit more thought into this:

Don't you find it odd that when you thought the SSL sample was #1 your favorite was #1, and when you decided it was #3, your favorite was #3?

Maybe a subconscious string pulling?

I'm really on the fence with shootouts, and people are trying to *listen* for what they want to be the winner. Seems the only true ABX I've found was on YouTube recording a guitarist through a split channel. You had to PM for results, and couldn't post results on the board (so no peer-swaying either)

Psychology is certainly an interesting field...
#12
31st May 2012
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My guess would be:

1 - SSL
2 - ITB
3 - VCC

The funny thing, to my suprise, is that there are different things that I like about all 3.

When do we see which is which?
#13
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
  #13
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1- vcc
2- itb
3- ssl
#14
31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
To add a bit more thought into this:

Don't you find it odd that when you thought the SSL sample was #1 your favorite was #1, and when you decided it was #3, your favorite was #3?

Maybe a subconscious string pulling?

I'm really on the fence with shootouts, and people are trying to *listen* for what they want to be the winner. Seems the only true ABX I've found was on YouTube recording a guitarist through a split channel. You had to PM for results, and couldn't post results on the board (so no peer-swaying either)

Psychology is certainly an interesting field...
That's why Plugins are really great tools!

If we can't tell which one is the SSL,that mean the consumer WILL NEVER care at all.

I haven't listened yet,and I'm not going to listen on me laptop.

To the studio I go!

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anguswoodhead
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31st May 2012
Old 31st May 2012
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Just to let you guys know.....
I made a boo boo when I printed the SSL summing box mix.
I've since learnt that running the levels to hot into it results in a closed and less 3D sound,
And can even lead to distortion
I'm hoping to put another lot of clips up soon - stay tuned.
The new clips will be the same mix numbering system.
#16
31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
I've since learnt that running the levels to hot into it results in a closed and less 3D sound,
.
Ok I'm calling this BS!

EITHER YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A SSL.

OR YOUR A RICH GUY,THAT'S NOT A ENGINEER AT ALL.

either I'm outta here!

You can't mix,and should not test anything.

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#17
31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
Just to let you guys know.....
I made a boo boo when I printed the SSL summing box mix.
I've since learnt that running the levels to hot into it results in a closed and less 3D sound,
And can even lead to distortion
I'm hoping to put another lot of clips up soon - stay tuned.
The new clips will be the same mix numbering system.
That's why I said that something's weird going on with that sample...cause honestly I would never ever presume that you're NOT aware of the input level/distortion correlation.

Okay, okay, okay, okay (says Leo Getz)...Let's say you're not a professional mixer and let's say you're not even a hobbyist but having 3,483 posts here and not knowing that...what's going on man? Is this a joke?! Maybe my english really IS that terrible so I didn't understood you correctly...I hope.
#18
31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl View Post
That's why I said that something's weird going on with that sample...cause honestly I would never ever presume that you're NOT aware of the input level/distortion correlation.

Okay, okay, okay, okay (says Leo Getz)...Let's say you're not a professional mixer and let's say you're not even a hobbyist but having 3,483 posts here and not knowing that...what's going on man? Is this a joke?! Maybe my english really IS that terrible so I didn't understood you correctly...I hope.
No Mr dot!your English is just fine!

He said he just learned!

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#19
31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
.
I've since learnt .
^^^see!^^^

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#20
31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
^^^see!^^^
You're right! Could it just be that he caught a flu?
#21
31st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl View Post
You're right! Could it just be that he caught a flu?
Don't know,but it seems he has the runs.

There's SHIT EVERYWHERE.

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#22
1st June 2012
Old 1st June 2012
  #22
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Quote:
SSL Mix Box Analog Summing - $50 per song - convert your ITB 'digital' Mix to an SSL summed 'analog' mix.
Provide me with multiple stereo stems and I will send you back a final 'summed' mix.
The difference is amazing.
Again, from his sig ^^^ I've seen car salesmen put this guy to shame...
anguswoodhead
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1st June 2012
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ha ha - whatever guys
BTW, I have had a cold for a week or so but still...
I've had this SSL summing box approx a month now and still getting the hang of it.
Just trying to be honest and up front here.

I had an issue with my monitoring too where the mono sub is unbalanced rca in.
I'm coming out of my mains (M & K MPS-2510P) into the sub (MX-350MKII).
However the link from the mains to the sub is passive and unbuffered so it was unbalancing my whole system. (right back to the SSL Mix Box)
$12,000 monitoring 2.1 system and I'm having these sort of problems.
My point being... I'm having issues in my room at the moment but am close to getting it all sorted out.
All sorts of weird stuff has been happening...
I promise the next lot of clips will be better.

edit:
the guy who helped me setup this monitoring is a 3 time Grammy winning engineer
who had one of most successful studios in the UK for over 30 years
my point being that anyone can make a mistake even the most seasoned and awarded of us
(There is always something new to be learnt in this game thank goodness or we would all be bored)
anguswoodhead
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1st June 2012
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BTW - I've been pm'ing those that got it right.
anguswoodhead
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1st June 2012
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OK, Ive added another set of clips to the shootout.
Same 3 mix techniques - ITB, ITB with VCC 4K and SSL Mix Box Analog Summing.
Recorded at Erinwood Studios. Erin Ontario.
Mixed by Ted Gerber Zipthedog inc.
I'm A Carpenter - Larry Kurtz, Larry and the Lawbreakers.
I was given 9 stereo stems.
#26
1st June 2012
Old 1st June 2012
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carpenter clilp 1 SSL
carpenter clip 2 ITB
carpenter clip 3 VCC


8)

Wiz
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#27
1st June 2012
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Had a feeling that the distortion in clip 1 could have been a level issue with the ssl...

Carpenter clip:
1: ITB
2: SSL - i think i hear sligtly tighter lowmids.
3: VCC - this sounds the most clear and 3d imo.

Anyway the difference is tiny.

ps: The hats have a horrible click sound, in the right channel to them. Its in the all the clips.
#28
1st June 2012
Old 1st June 2012
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Smile Ok, here I go

Ok, here I go:

1- SSL (the bass has this tight thing its hard to get itb but in exchange it loosed a bit of high end) my guess is the line input were not driven hard...

2- ITB (the bass is the least tight of all IMHO)

3- VCC (sound artifically distorted but not so bad, I've never tried VCC, but now I want to give it a try..

Now, for sure the differences are subtles! Wich is why I am passing to ITB after years summing with a Midas and Apogee DA16X....

when will we know the answers??
#29
1st June 2012
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1 - ITB
2 - SSL
3 - VCC

I loooooooove 2 so much more than 1 and 3. Sounds really expensive. I'd be pretty thrilled if 2 turned out as ITB or VCC !
Quote
1
#30
1st June 2012
Old 1st June 2012
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1. SSL
2. VCC
3. ITB

#2 shows a big difference. I've tried summing before and it was usually a subtle change.
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