Midas Venice F16 vs. Mackie Onyx 1640i (Comparing Consoles)

[SDB_12]

Hi! I just bought the Midas Venice F16 console to replace my Mackie Onyx 1640i, but before putting it up for sale, I'm playing around and doing some shoot outs between the two.

I play multiple instruments and sing, so I've done a quick cover of the song "Trouble" by Ray Lamontagne, tracked separately through both consoles.

This is not a scientific test...

I've done this for fun, and for my own comparisons. The idea was to do a simple recording, quickly, through both consoles to see if there was any major differences in sound/tone/depth/etc. Yes, it's two different takes, so there will be some variation, but I wanted to go through the entire process with each console to see what the end result would be.

The Process...

Basically, I would set up microphones for an instrument, play the part through the Midas, then hook up the Onyx and do a 2nd take through that making sure to match gain as best I could, and leaving the microphones in the same spot. Everything was straight through the pres in the boards, then recorded directly into Pro Tools via each consoles onboard converters through firewire.

No EQ
No Compression
No Processing at all

Drums:
Beta 52 about 1" away from the center of the outside of the kick drum, and then a Little Blondie mic over the top of the kit pointing to the snare.

Guitars:
Little Blondie about 1-2 feet away from my Martin acoustic, pointing around the 12th fret.

Bass:
Bass was run direct through a Radial Pro DI then, then into each board and straight to Pro Tools. I did put the Softube Bass Amp room plug on each bass track, and matched everything up.

Vocals:
JJ Audio modded v67g (Neumann u87 mod)

Again, there is no processing at all. I wanted to hear the complete sound of each board from the pre's, to the summing, to the converters in each.

Let me know your thoughts. More to come...

[SDB_12]

Full Mix:
I did a quick 10 minute mix of each song after tracking. I level matched each individual instrument, for example, the Onyx drums and Midas drums were both level matched with each other, then grouped together for mixing to keep levels the same. I then summed through each board. All Onyx takes were summed through the Onyx board, all Midas takes were summed through the Midas board. Summing was like this:

Out 1-2: Drums
Out 3: Bass
Out 5-6: Acoustic
Out 7: Vocal

I did it that way to keep the panning exactly the same between each take (drums panned to about 75 right and acoustic about 75 left in the DAW, vocals and bass up the middle). When mixing, I decided to pan the drums right, acoustic left, then vocal and bass up the middle so you could hear them each clearly, but also see how they are all working together in a mix.

Thoughts? I'll give mine in a bit. I'm working up more tests with the eq's as well...more to come.

[Wiz_Oz]

I am listening on earbuds on my iPad....will listen in the studio on monitors tomorrow....but the Midas sounds real nice....really interesting tea...thanks for posting


Cheers

Wiz

[muziekschuur]

Both are completely fullfilling. I mean I'd be happy with both. You really notice it's up to the musician and the mixer to get the best of the mix.

That being said. I notice the Midas being somewhat fatter sounding.

I think the difference could be stronger when using 32 channels.... But maybe the slight difference remains. Meaning I would not care what to use.

From a secondhand selling point of view. Midas desks allways sell well. Though The Verona desks were never really appriciated like their earlier desks did.

[DAUBERSONIC]

Thx for putting this up man
F16 back in my console search...by god it's ugly though

[muziekschuur]

They chose purple. What if they chose pink....

[muziekschuur]

I see you use mid heavey microphones. You allso should test the topend of both consoles. You can do that either with a reverb tail test (stretch the tail, compress and eq it heavily UP and listen to that. See what is nicer. (nice condenser on fast highhat. Tracked at 96khz). Or with a X-Y set with two omni's. Look at best stereofeel.

Take a drumtrack or nice guitar (both can be done too. Guitar in front, drums 3 m behind, soft drumming, then nice piece by the two musicians and the XY microphoneset in front of it. Now look what console produces the strongest stereo image and what has the nicest 15khz range... (DPA 4006 or 4090's recommended)


I'm betting the Midas is the best...

Enjoy.

[purplenoise]

Listening through cheap headphones the midas mix is more defined, has more space ( less "in your face" ) and there is less clutter in the mids. The vocals sit much better in the midas mix as well.

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by SDB_12

Full Mix:
I did a quick 10 minute mix of each song after tracking. I level matched each individual instrument, for example, the Onyx drums and Midas drums were both level matched with each other, then grouped together for mixing to keep levels the same. I then summed through each board. All Onyx takes were summed through the Onyx board, all Midas takes were summed through the Midas board. Summing was like this:

Out 1-2: Drums
Out 3: Bass
Out 5-6: Acoustic
Out 7: Vocal

I did it that way to keep the panning exactly the same between each take (drums panned to about 75 right and acoustic about 75 left in the DAW, vocals and bass up the middle). When mixing, I decided to pan the drums right, acoustic left, then vocal and bass up the middle so you could hear them each clearly, but also see how they are all working together in a mix.

Thoughts? I'll give mine in a bit. I'm working up more tests with the eq's as well...more to come.

can you do X backwards?
All Onyx takes summed through the Midas board,
all Midas takes summed through the Onyx board.

[scruffydog]

Nice work...!
It's good to know that the Midas is a step up from a Mackie!

[ABBA]

When you start adding more channels the difference will be even greater.
Here the Midas is so lovely. I seriously like the EQ on the Midas as well.
Really good sound for very little money!

[purplenoise]

Ok, after listening on proper monitors ( focal 6) here is what I think.
The midas board has deeper bass than the onyx and somehow tighter. As I mentioned earlier the mids on the midas are much smoother and not cluttered like the onyx giving the mix a more "effortless" feel. Also the high mids of the onyx seem to be a little harsh compared to the midas. The ambience is more obvious on the midas mix as well, making the mix not as " in your face".

I own an f32 myself but I dont use the preamps or converters since I have better choices for pres and the alphalink for conversion. I did a couple of tests with the midas pres and, although they are not going to blow you away, they are very useable. If I had nothing else I would be perfectly happy.

The eq on the midas is really really good. It is very responsive ( some might describe it aggressive for this reason) and a great sculpting tool.

Cheers

[AvS]

I am surprised by how huge the difference is. I even heard the difference on my laptop speakers. Listening with my monitors (NHT pro-20) now. Midas sounds great. Bigger lowend and a lot more smooth in the mids and hi's. I am surprised how much the onyx seems to push the hi-mids forward. The S' sounds in the vocals sounds horrible on the onyx but nice and smooth on the midas.

[SDB_12]

Originally Posted by AvS

I am surprised by how huge the difference is. I even heard the difference on my laptop speakers. Listening with my monitors (NHT pro-20) now. Midas sounds great. Bigger lowend and a lot more smooth in the mids and hi's. I am surprised how much the onyx seems to push the hi-mids forward. The S' sounds in the vocals sounds horrible on the onyx but nice and smooth on the midas.

Even my wife heard the difference, on a macbook coming through the laptop speakers. I assume the difference would be even greater the more tracks that are built up. I plan to give a more in depth review, can't right now though. Thanks for the replies everyone!

[MickeyMassacre]

Loving the sound of the Midas. Am I correct in understanding that this console can work somewhat like an inline console to tape? As in once I record to channel 1-24, I can send channel 1-24 back to the console to use the eq and insertion on each channel into the master buss?

[Ric4001]

I'm always envious of the golden ears people on this board have. I hear no difference between these files. I listened on Grado SR80s through my mackbook pro headphone output. I even put the two files in Logic and switched back and forth between the tracks solo'd.

[Withnail]

Funny thing is - we did a quick comparison between the new and old Midas Venice and we actually preferred the sound of the old version...
Anyway, the Midas - old or new - is sooooo good for the money.

[purplenoise]

Originally Posted by Withnail

Funny thing is - we did a quick comparison between the new and old Midas Venice and we actually preferred the sound of the old version...
Anyway, the Midas - old or new - is sooooo good for the money.

care to elaborate on that? what were the differences?

[dysenterygary]

I agree that the midas sounds better on the mix, but I was surprised at how similar that were actually. I guess thats why it costs so much to get that extra 2-3%.

[Ciozzi]

Levels are not mached, especially in the mix. OH's are louder in the onyx mix and that definitely accounts, at least in part, for the lack of perceived low end.

[chicomac]

Thanks for this test
I heard midas a bit better and with more presence than onyx

[BushmasterM4]

Some of the files dont load and what do work, I didnt hear any difference. But the Midas has only 8 pres vs. the Mackie's 16 preamps. I hate it when manufacturers state channel info that way. Even their 24 channels is actually 16 channels. Sure there are other non preamp inputs, but those dont count !!!