Hundreds$ to Thousands$ Female Mic Shootout

[Screws]

VOTE FOR YOUR PREFERRED MIC ON THIS VOICE

I wanted to compare some mics on my wife’s voice to find something that sounded better than what I had been using, so this shootout was primarily for me and me alone.

However, as a true Gearslut I wanted to share with everyone here, since this place has been such an education for me. All the mics chosen for this shootout, regardless of price, are ones that will be at least somewhat familiar and accessible to many of you, so I think you'll all find it quite interesting to hear how they stack up in this blind comparison.

Four mics, ranging in price from a few hundred to thousands, were setup head to head in a sort of cross pattern and positioned about 18” from my wife in a fairly dead area in my home studio. They were plugged into 4 channels of a Focusrite OctoPre without any compression. Lightpipe/ADAT went to my MOTU 2408 ADAT in and then via PCI424 to Digital Performer 7.2 on my Mac Pro. It was then recorded at 24/44.1.

I calibrated the mics by running a 1KHZ tone through a powered monitor placed 18” from the mics, and using a db meter right next to the mics, set the volume of the tone to 84db. This is because my wife easily puts out 84 db at a foot and a half. I then adjusted the OctoPre channels until the meters in DP showed a uniform -12 on all four mics giving me lots of headroom which I did indeed need once she opened up.

She sang the song once, a torch ballad thingy she does in her cabaret type shows.

The 30 second .wav files are posted for each mic soloed and each mic with the music bed at -25db underneath so you can listen to them like I did. I wanted to hear not only the mics but also how each one would sit in a mix.

After you’ve all have had enough time to chime in with your likes, dislikes and preferences I’ll post the names of the mics, along with pictures, my impressions and some other goodies. Listen and comment as many times as you like.

DISCLAIMER: This was just for me, and my testing methods and calibration methods are as good as I could figure to do, since I’m not a trained engineer. What I’ve learned I learned from reading and listening and watching others. I am not a scientist. I’m a musician who records.

I share it here to help anyone it helps. Please don’t make me sorry by critiquing my methods, results, or my wife’s voice. I’m hoping you Gearslutz don’t live up to the mantra that “no good deed goes unpunished”.

She wasn’t feeling 100% and isn’t overjoyed that I’m letting a gazillion people hear her this “nakedly” in that condition – so be kind.

If you want to hear her on a much better day go to

Suzi Cruz, All that Jazz Sample Video

Happy listening, and enjoy.

NOTE: MP3 VERSIONS ARE IN POST #8 FURTHER DOWN THE PAGE

[GoldMember]

A

con you PM the answer?

[Screws]

171 looks and only one response.

Please don't be put off by my disclaimer - I honestly DO seek your opinions and ears. I'm only trying to avoid the vitriol I see here sometimes from just a few.

I know shootouts can be wearisome and comparisons are sometimes "in the ear of the beholder". But when you see which mics were involved you will at the very least be glad you participated.

I'm keeping it blind so there's no chance of mic bias - ears only. But here's a tip - the prices of the mics when new

+$2.5K, +$1.5K, Under $500.

To Goldmember - yes, when more folks have chimed in I will PM the names of the mics used to you and for anyone else that participates and wants the same.

[didier.brest]

I listened to the a capella tracks and preferred A.

[nun67]

I like A , C , D then B .

[Screws]

A friend suggested I put up mp3s of all the files, since the mp3 versions play instantly. It's a little too late tonight, but I'll do that tomorrow.

I'd like to compare my notes with some of yours, so it would be cool if any of you could elaborate on your impressions. What do you hear that you don't like on a mic? What do you think is missing from a mic? Do you hear a mic that sounds great soloed but doesn't sound as good when "in the mix"?

Thanks everyone for the input, votes and PMs. Keep it coming! I promise not to keep you guessing forever.

[Hogwash]

My favorite was C, but D was pretty close. A sounded a bit shrill and spitty to me (I was much more aware of mouth noises), while B seemed slightly muddy or veiled.

In the examples with the accompaniment, though, some of the differences disappeared. I guess I still liked C and D, but even B was okay.

[Screws]

OK, here are the files again as mp3s.

[Screws]

Thank you, Mr. Hogwash, for your choices and explanation. It's very helpful to hear what others discern as the differences, or lack of differences.

Of course, once I started compressing, equalizing and effecting the tracks the differences became even more minute. That alone was eye opening.

Here's another hint. Three of the mics are tube based, one is solid state. All are multi-pattern large diaphragm condensers.

Hoping for more input!

[illacov]

I didn't like any of the mics for this shootout.

Not because I don't sell any of them but for these reasons.

All the mics did not perform well once the vocalist began to belt. They all seemed to get greasy/huffy/breaking up when she sings Say a Word...Noooo..


The preceding parts of the recordings were better as far as that component but still they were telling about how these mics matched or didn't match the singers voice.

Both A and B were warmer/darker than C and D but also despite their warmer tones they were thinner to me. They lacked presence and that degree of Kapow that makes me say Yes this is the mic.

C and D had more treble and high mids energy but were unbalanced as how they reproduced it. Meaning they both consistently were bright regardless of what words or sounds the singer made with their mouth. I could hear that the top end was to so consistently there that there was very little contrast between "little while" and "take my hand." At least as far as the brightness of the sounds that make up those words.

So this made my spidey sense tingle and tell me that these mics would need alot of de essing and tweaking to get them sounding balanced or perhaps they would be more so a mic you just accept the sound of and work the arrangement around it.

But if its my job to track her and I had other mics, I would use them over these.

She's got pipes too!

I'd almost recommend a SM57/7 with a 451 on top of it to get the best match up.

The SM57/7 would handle the high spl best and the 451 would capture the high end detail you like in the 251s and 12s etc..Plus the midrange on down would be covered in that regard.

As a completely out of left field recommendation, I would think she would sound amazing on one of Samar Audio's Ribbons (debuted at AES this year). I have never heard such a ridiculously sweet sounding ribbon microphone that sounded so much so much so much like a condenser/ribbon mutation dipped in medical cocaine mixed with the finest hash and rolled by Bob Marley himself, until I got a chance to play with Mark's Ribbons at AES this year.

MY OH MY OH MY!!!

But so far none of these mics are really getting me excited and are not doing a service to your wife's beautiful voice.

Now on a sidenote, what you can do and I don't know if you tried this or not, but you could try using one of these tube mics so to speak if they have a 9 pattern selector on the PSU and get away from straight cardiod and try a blend of cardiod/omni.

You'd get a little more spl handling but also it would dial out some of the woof that happens when she belts I think.

Nonetheless cool shootout! I enjoyed the challenge

Peace
Illumination

[Screws]

Hi Langston,

Thanks for chiming in.

I actually have gotten somewhat "immune", unfortunately, to the harshness that comes when she starts belting. It happens with every single mic I put on her. Dynamics, dark condensors, open sounding condensors, SDCs, LDCs - it doesn't matter. The only thing I don't own to be able to try is a good ribbon. But the cynical side of me expects the same result. I've used a 57 and a 58 with the same outcome also.

Her live show has the same problem. I get her mic (Beta 87. SM58 or Sennheiser 865/835) sounding beautiful on the low and mid stuff and SCREECH!

Problem is, I don't think it's always the mics. I just think her voice gets a bit poke-in-the-ear-with-a-sharp-stick-like when she opens up. And I've yet to find a mic that kind of blunts that edge without killing all the upper air and clarity.

So when the inevitable happened on the clips, I wasn't as focused on it as I probably should be. If you think there's a mic that could be made/modded or manufactured that would bring all the beauty and soften that upper mid peak of hers I would be extremely interested. But I'd have to hear it to believe it.

[Screws]

OK gang, one of the mics is a Gefell UM70. Care to guess?

[shortedaman]

its c for me

[Screws]

Originally Posted by shortedaman

its c for me

Are you saying you believe C is the UM70? Or that you prefer C on her voice.

[binarymilton]

I only listened to the "with music" tracks, and found them to sound pretty much identical. Couldn't hear enough difference to have a preference.

I'd probably feel differently listening to the a capellas, but if they're going to end up sitting in an arrangement like that anyway, it doesn't really matter.

Impossible to properly comment as the track cuts off too early for me. But...

I found all of them sounded a bit too muffled and muted until the very end. While I hear why people are saying her voice comes across as a bit piercing in the "belting" parts, ironically at least we had a bit of clarity there, which I felt was missing from the recording up until then.

Yes, they all sounded a bit harsh (and I don't mean "cheap mic harsh", I mean harshness coming from a mic accurately capturing a rather strident vocal). Has your wife ever had singing lessons? If she had a few lessons focussing on producing sound from her diaphragm it'd help her massively.

But also, the "harsh" part is very loud for the track anyway. I suspect that track volume automation will be your friend here.

Try some ribbons. A ribbon mic like a Beyerdynamic M500 (or any of the Beyer ribbons) might suit her; Coles 4038 would lose that piercingness (but you'd probably conclude it was too dark). Ever tried an RE20?

Try a C414B ULS or XLS. They can be surprisingly smooth, even the newer ones, whatever anyone says. Oh, try an AT4040 or 4047 too. Investigate mics that dip around the 2K area. Do you EQ a cut around that point? If not, you should.

Or alternatively any mics that are supposedly 'neutral' - flat as possible. I don't think I'd bother trying any tube mics on her voice at all, even supposedly warm or dark ones.

One last thing: ever tried mic'ing her chest? It can work wonders on a harsh vocal.

[junior]

OK, I'll play:

A
C/D
B

B seemed the more strident of the bunch on this source on my crappy speakers at work...

[ritelec]

C,D,A,B

[Nikfriz]

Your wife's voice is good and the harshness can be dealt with with the right mic. You have to go after a mic that is a bit scooped. also the 2-4 k range needs to be dealt with. I have the same problem with my daughter. A mic like an m70 is the wrong mic choice for her. You need something like an Elam 251. One mic that usually works with this type of singer is a 414. The new XLS has a dip around 3-4 k and is a pretty neutral mic. IMO you need to stay away from mics like 47, 67, 87 . If you have not you should try a 414 i think it would be just the Ticket and you could pick one up for around $500 on Ebay. If you want to go with better quality the ADK CS 251 has a nice mid range scoop and is a great mic for around $1100.00. Also Larry from ADK is really awesome to deal with and he will get you the sound you need whatever it takes. I had a great experience with him!

Best Of Luck

Joe

[Nikfriz]

Also as mentioned in a previous post mic positioning is key. I often will have to spend a good amount of time depending on the song to find just the right mic placement, especially if your room is not so good.I Often end up with the mic at chin level pointed down 30 degrees. Female vocalist can become very hard to record especially ones with dynamics in the upper mids. That is also why the room acoustics are the key to a good vocal recording. When certain frequencies get loud in the wrong space it can create harshness in some nasty places. Certain mics reveal this more than others. Take a mic like a Brauner KH edition. Incredible detailed mic in the right space. In the wrong room could be a disaster because it will reveal all the imperfections. Another reason why the 414 can work well. It seems to not pick up the room as much as some other LDC's do. I learned the hard way that it is a waste of money to get a great mic with a bad room. You will get better recordings with a 57. If this is the case for you I would try Senheiser 441 or Sm7.

[Screws]

Thanks Nikfriz. Your points are well taken. My room actually has a dead corner with a sort of booth I've built to take the room out of the equation. As far as mics with an upper mid "dip", I'd love to hear some of the Elam 251 flavored mics on her voice, or any other mic any of you may be aware of that has a bit of a dip anywhere in the 1k to 4k range. I've tried ribbons, but I love air on top too much.

[Screws]

And now for the end of our show. As I post this the votes are

A - 7
B - 0
C - 5
D - 1

No more votes will be accounted.

OK, The mics used in this shootout are...

Mic A - Stellar CM6
Mic B - Soundelux U99
Mic C - Gefell UM70s
Mic D - Stellar CM5

First of all, a shoutout with much appreciation and slutty love to my two new friends and fellow slutz, kidvybes and mdemesmin1 who gave their time to come to this shootout and brought some of these mics that I had never heard. Both are seasoned pros with a passion for tone and we had incredible fun together!

Just like many of you, I wanted to hear some of the "pre-modded" mics I've been reading about, but as far as "made in China" mics go, I was not really expecting to like them much. The Chinese mics I've heard in the past (mostly MXL and Studio Projects) were what I've taken as being the norm. I do own a pair of MXL V67s, and they actually sound decently good on certain male rock voices. But on Suzi it's nails on a blackboard.

Remember, my reason for starting this was to search for a mic that works better on my wife's voice than my CAD E300, Blueberry and Soundelux U99, and I fully expected I was going to end up having to pony up 2 to 3 Gs to get even close to what I wanted. I'm a pretty old school guy, and I spent a year and a half in the early 70s recording nightly at the Hit Factory, using and loving the 87s and 67s and Elams and RCAs. But like many other home recordists I have a thirst for Dom Perignon and a budget for Boone's Farm.

This shootout was actually the second one we did. The first one didn't have the Gefell or the CM6. Instead it included the CAD mic I use on her most often, as well as the Blueberry, U99, CM5, and an Avantone CV-12. The three of us doing the blind listening unanimously picked the CM5 in the first test, commenting that it sounded most "alive" and "like she sounds in the room". The Avantone was nice also, but had nowhere near the "Ahhh!" factor the CM5 produced on her. The CAD and Blueberry had a "dry" sound to them that was part of what I'm trying to get away from.

After that we reset for the second test which you have heard here.

Here are the actual notes I made during the listening, in the order I heard them. (I've added the actual mic names after each note for easy reference.)

"C" – Nice mids and lower mids. Bass a tad shy. Decent upper mids but lacks sparkle and upper air. Belted notes slightly strident. (UM70s)

"D" – Very nice bass and mids. Upper mids nice detail, love the hint of “growl” or back of throat heard here. Sounds very “alive”. Belted notes better. (CM5)

"A" – Lighter bottom and lower mids, detailed upper mids and definite “wow” factor in highs. Very clear, almost as though previous mics had a “veil” over them in comparison. Belted notes slightly strident (CM6)

"B" – Nice lows and mids, though not as rich as "D". Upper mids decently detailed, again not as nice as CM5. High air lacking slightly, belt notes most strident here. (U99)

I loved the Stellar mics, each for different reasons. I've always loved my U99, but was rather disappointed that I didn't love it more on HER voice in the blind test. It sounded peaky and a bit tubby in comparison. I also own the UM70s, and though it is a very usable tone I wasn't thrilled. Like my other non-tube mics it sounded "dry" to me in the lower mids, though much nicer down there than the CAD or Blue. I also felt it lacked bass, upper air and sparkle.

The end result? I bought a CM6 and a CM5, loving the open airy highs and sparkle on one and the rich and vibrant lows and mids on the other. They were each easier to mix than any mic I've used on her voice in the past. Plus, at the price they sell for it's pretty much a no-brainer. I plan to record her using both at the same time to 2 different tracks and mix to taste.

The UM70s is a classic mic. I've been tempted to sell it, but I probably won't. Maybe when I do a shootout with 47ish mics I'll find something that makes it not so keep-able. I ended up selling my U99 and though it's a great mic, I needed the cash to buy the Stellars.

I'm happy, for now, but who knows? If I ever get to shootout a Bock 251, Blackspade UM25 and BeesNeez 251 type mic on her I may end up with one of them. Or more!

That's what I get for being a slut.

[Nikfriz]

After Listening over a few times initially the cm6 sounds the Best but with some top end eq and subtraction around 2k the Stellar Cm5 IMO will give you the best finished vocal. It sounds the least harsh when she starts to belt and with some shelf eq you can bring the air right out of that vocal.

If i am not mistaken isn't the Cm5 suppose to be like a C12 Elam 251 ?

That is the best sub$400 mic I have ever heard.

[Screws]

Thanks, Nik. The first shootout, which didn't include the CM6 had the CM5 as the undisputed winner on her voice. Very rich and vibrant. On the second one, I still loved the CM5, but the open air highs of the CM6 were kind of breath-taking. I bought both.

Scary good mics for $400 bucks.

[cyjanopan]

I liked A and C for her voice. It makes me want to look at Stellar mics more, thanks!

[Screws]

Stellar seems to order these CM5 and CM6 mics about 10 at a time, checks them over and burns the tubes in for a couple of days before they will release them, so there are "windows" of time to order them.

Good news is the CM5's are now available on ebay or directly from Stellar's website. I got mine last week.

ebay

Stellar CM-5 6072 Tube Condensor Microphone | eBay

Stellar website

Stellar Mic Design - Products

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by illacov

I didn't like any of the mics for this shootout.

Not because I don't sell any of them but for these reasons.

How do (did) you know that none of the mics came from you?

- Jim

[illacov]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

How do (did) you know that none of the mics came from you?

- Jim

Oh because Peter Bloch makes the Stellar Mics, David Bock is the genius behind the U99 and I certainly don't work for Gefell, though I do heart Thiersch.

I was adding that disclaimer since there's that undercurrent of gear pimps and manufacturers entering their competitors thread to bash and derail things.

I was trying to make sure people knew I speaking purely from an engineer's perspective and not as a gear manufacturer.

My only reason for not liking the microphones on the singer's voice was because they would break up on her when she belted. This was not a damnation of the mics since they are all fine microphones.

I think this is more of an engineering question than a gear construction question personally.

I'd almost think that the SM7 sounds like a sure shot or for that matter a very detailed ribbon microphone would be a candidate as well to handle those lovely pipes. That girl sho' can sang

Peace
Illumination

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by Screws

Stellar seems to order these CM5 and CM6 mics about 10 at a time, checks them over and burns the tubes in for a couple of days before they will release them, so there are "windows" of time to order them.

Good news is the CM5's are now available on ebay or directly from Stellar's website. I got mine last week.

Do you know why the CM-6 now is listed as sold out on their home page? Is it being discontinued?

Stellar Microphones - Home

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

How do (did) you know that none of the mics came from you?

- Jim

Originally Posted by illacov

Oh because Peter Bloch makes the Stellar Mics, David Bock is the genius behind the U99 and I certainly don't work for Gefell, though I do heart Thiersch.

Yes, but your initial response predates the "unveiling" of the mics in the shootout.

I'm not accusing you of anything (you seem like a good guy). I'm just curious how you knew that none of the mics were yours before the OP named the mics.

Thanks,
Jim

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I'm just curious how you knew that none of the mics were yours before the OP named the mics.

Because none was good enough...