Hundreds$ to Thousands$ Female Mic Shootout

[illacov]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yes, but your initial response predates the "unveiling" of the mics in the shootout.

I'm not accusing you of anything (you seem like a good guy). I'm just curious how you knew that none of the mics were yours before the OP named the mics.

Thanks,
Jim

Ahhhh very observant.

Screws and I had spoken on the phone and he was on the market for a different microphone and told me that he was going to perform a shootout. At that point I didn't know the entire gist of which microphones he was going to use, I only knew his U99 was going to be used. I also know our conversation which was 100% friendly and very cool, despite it being sales oriented, ended on very cool terms. He was a great guy to talk to and he is somebody I would love to talk to again.

When I saw this shootout and listened to the files, I was moreso curious how each mic would perform on his wife's voice, regardless of manufacturer, but because his wife's demo reel showed that she had a very strong set of pipes indeed, but she was using a stage mic (most likely a dynamic) and I came into this shootout wondering how a condenser would do.

So yes indeed Screws and I definitely spoke and I wanted to participate, (even though I didn't know the answers or the nature of all the samples for that matter).

I am eager to see how things work out, considering that the U99 is a good mic, obviously the Gefell is a good microphone and so are the Stellars.

I still stand by my original observation about the samples in this test. In a tracking situation I would tread lightly regarding the mics breaking up and it may be a simple matter of just backing the singer up or using a combination of mics. What needs to be understood is that this is not a design flaw in the microphones. I feel its more of actually a question for the engineer and the producer working with the positioning of the mic or making the decision based around the singer's voice. A ribbon could be a good choice, an SM7 with an SDC could be a good choice or it just might be a matter of backing up a few inches.

I definitely know that my companies' microphones would break up in this test too! Every microphone has its limits. It may be as simple as padding down the output of the mic.

Screws I want to hear some new clips!

Peace
Illumination


Cheers to all

[illacov]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

Because none was good enough...

I hope thats not what you think I was implying. All 4 microphones broke up when pushed, tube and FET alike. That definitely means any mic that I could have thrown up would have done the same thing Without being there its hard to know exactly where the singer was though.

On a side note, Screws, have you ever had your wife try singing into the sleeve somewhat of the microphone? I remember hearing that Al Green did that into a U47 to soften his voice on a certain song. It works on the brighter microphones too and can offer a different texture. The lost high end can be dialed back into the recording if need be.

Didier do you have any recommendations for condenser microphones that can handle a louder voice?

Peace
Illumination

[Screws]

Just for information's sake.

The shootout was simply intended so I could hear some different mics on the voice I record most of the time. I positioned them about 18" from her and on a flat plane, each one equidistant from her mouth to level the playing field as much as possible.

As such I got to hear some mics that really did somethings on her voice way better than the mics I already owned and used frequently. I also gained a new appreciation for the UM70s and ended up selling my U99 after listening closely and repeatedly.

However, when actual recording time comes, the mic will be positioned and addressed VERY differently than in the shootout. I've spent quite a few years learning the positions and gyrations necessary in order to work around my little kitten's ENORMOUS growl. I'll angle the capsule so it is not flat-on facing her mouth, she'll back up or turn her head on some of her belt notes and other such stuff so the mic doesn't overload, sibilance isn't over accentuated, etc.

I appreciate all the wonderful advice, input and ideas here, but all I wanted from the shootout was to hear the differences between them. I was delighted to hear the range of tones and textures, what areas of her voice each mic brought out or failed to bring out and the like.

My conversation with Langston was before the shootout happened, as I began looking for mics. Great time on the phone! But it was that very conversation that reinforced the idea that I had to hear some mics on the very source before I could make any rational decisions. I've purchased too many mics (and other stuff) based on the discussions and specs of how they sound, and many of those purchases ended up not so great when I got to hear them on my sound sources in my studio on my recordings.

The 2 Stellar mics (CM6 and CM5) sounded so much better to me than what I currently owned that I bought them. I would have purchased them if they were $700 or even $1000 each - it was their sound I loved, not their price. At under $400 each it was a no-brainer, and instead of having to wait until I sold $2000 worth of stuff I was able to buy them right away, but they were going to get bought because of their sound, period. The U99 is a great mic, but it doesn't work for what I need, and I want to own just what I need.

Now I want to start hearing mics for the other voice I spend a lot of time recording.

Roy Michaels

He's the new lead singer for the Brooklyn Bridge, since Johnny Maestro passed away, and he has as dynamically challenging a voice as my wife. So far, on some preliminary shootouts I've done, he seems to sound best on a 251-ish flavored mic. Now I've got to start getting my hands on every 251-ish clone (since this is reality) under $1500 until I find the one that works best for him.

All suggestions welcome.

[mdemesmin1]

[QUOTE=Screws;7299885]Just for information's sake.

The shootout was simply intended so I could hear some different mics on the voice I record most of the time. I positioned them about 18" from her and on a flat plane, each one equidistant from her mouth to level the playing field as much as possible.

As such I got to hear some mics that really did somethings on her voice way better than the mics I already owned and used frequently. I also gained a new appreciation for the UM70s and ended up selling my U99 after listening closely and repeatedly.

However, when actual recording time comes, the mic will be positioned and addressed VERY differently than in the shootout. I've spent quite a few years learning the positions and gyrations necessary in order to work around my little kitten's ENORMOUS growl. I'll angle the capsule so it is not flat-on facing her mouth, she'll back up or turn her head on some of her belt notes and other such stuff so the mic doesn't overload, sibilance isn't over accentuated, etc.

I appreciate all the wonderful advice, input and ideas here, but all I wanted from the shootout was to hear the differences between them. I was delighted to hear the range of tones and textures, what areas of her voice each mic brought out or failed to bring out and the like.

My conversation with Langston was before the shootout happened, as I began looking for mics. Great time on the phone! But it was that very conversation that reinforced the idea that I had to hear some mics on the very source before I could make any rational decisions. I've purchased too many mics (and other stuff) based on the discussions and specs of how they sound, and many of those purchases ended up not so great when I got to hear them on my sound sources in my studio on my recordings.

The 2 Stellar mics (CM6 and CM5) sounded so much better to me than what I currently owned that I bought them. I would have purchased them if they were $700 or even $1000 each -


I should add that I was at the studio With Screws, I had a chance to hear first hand the challenge he was dealing with.

Imagine having to record the two most dynamic vocalist in the world... Lol.

With two completely different and opposite vice textures imaginable.

We tried about 20-30 different microphones on both voices and was lucky to find 2 that complement his wife's voice. We yet to find anything that will work on his friend Roy's voice.

I have a huge mic locker and I'm determine to find him a mic for Roy's voice. Screws and I have became great friend since we met a couple months ago on GS.

Your need to understand calling out random names of mics models an make will not help this man out.

I took 4 different flavor of ELAM-251 to his studio and was some what close with 2,

But I have a surprise for Screws I think I found the Mic that may work for Roy's Voice.



May you All have a happy and healthy Holidays.

Sent from my Iphone4 with typos.

[jozef]

Thanks for doing this. Since I'm a um70 user and was considering the stellar because I haven't got a tube ldc this was very informative. I think they are rather here... I'm surprised about the u99 though.

Which pattern did you use? I recently did a vocal shoot-out: um70, vintage U87, U87ai, 414 uls, royer r121, ev re20, beyer m88, m149. Both the um70 and the vintage U87 sounded clearly better in omni. The re20 sounded also very good but didn't respond that well to compression. The rest was a bit disappointing, especially the m149. We even suspected there was something wrong with it. If anyone is interested, I should have those files somewhere...

[Screws]

To keep things even among the mics and to keep the room out of the equation as much as possible the test was done in cardioid.

The UM70s does indeed have a beautiful sound in omni. Look at this:

[jozef]

Yes, that completely confirms what I hear compared to cardio: more natural, no mid bump, slight dip at the sibilance frequencies, more air. (Well, not that I heard specifically all those things but it makes sense.) When I use it at home I also use it in omni, surrounded by rockwool panels, problem solved. It's also much better for acoustic guitar, no proximity. For drum overheads my pair sounds better in cardioid though.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by Screws

I actually have gotten somewhat "immune", unfortunately, to the harshness that comes when she starts belting. It happens with every single mic I put on her. Dynamics, dark condensors, open sounding condensors, SDCs, LDCs - it doesn't matter. The only thing I don't own to be able to try is a good ribbon. But the cynical side of me expects the same result. I've used a 57 and a 58 with the same outcome also.

Her live show has the same problem. I get her mic (Beta 87. SM58 or Sennheiser 865/835) sounding beautiful on the low and mid stuff and SCREECH!

Problem is, I don't think it's always the mics. I just think her voice gets a bit poke-in-the-ear-with-a-sharp-stick-like when she opens up. And I've yet to find a mic that kind of blunts that edge without killing all the upper air and clarity.

So when the inevitable happened on the clips, I wasn't as focused on it as I probably should be. If you think there's a mic that could be made/modded or manufactured that would bring all the beauty and soften that upper mid peak of hers I would be extremely interested. But I'd have to hear it to believe it.

I know this is way late to the table here and not what this thread was all about (to me they all sounded very similar by the way, I liked a/c (edit: I honest to God mistyped b first time, it's a/c I liked best, but yes I did read the thread now and understand I prefer stellars to gefells etc LoL on her voice... cool)... but thought they all needed more low end energy, which makes me think they are all based in some way shape or form upon apex 460 designs (edit: well I was right about one of them, and indirectly right about the other stellar's chinese origins at least LoL).... no I haven't read the rest of the thread yet and don't know which mikes these are, just commenting in general here).

I think a ribbon like a 205 or shineybox style would be kickass on her voice by the way, agree with langston that ribbons are nice for this voice style.

ANYWAY to help her loud belting part, track with two mics. one as you're doing, and the other further away and made to sound good ONLY on the belting parts. I'm sure there's a way to make a mic sound ok on her belted parts but sound bad on her main voice as a result.

then track them both on separate tracks (same time obviously though) and mix between them.

I've done this before and it works really well. I'd suggest something with a lot of compression/limiting on it for the belted parts (with a hard limiter on the close mic that only kicks in when she yells just to save your inputs/ears when mixing evne though you won't use that track for the loud parts).

[Screws]

Mic B is a Soundelux U99 and Mic C is a Microtech Gefell UM70s. No Apex 460 lineage in either of those whatsoever.

EDIT: I see you've updated your reply now. As the three of us conducting the blind shootout listened on my Dynaudio BM6As to the playback of the tracks, we all agreed that Mic D, the Stellar CM5 sounded most like the singer in real life. None of us had any idea which mic was which until we finished listening, and were quite surprised at the outcome. We also agreed that it, the one based on the apex 460, had the "richest and roundest bottom of all the mics", as well as "the least harsh".

Perhaps the mp3s played on your system don't convey the same result.

[daveando]

Guys I'm completely sold on these Stellar mics. I was holding out for a mojave, but having heard this I'm sold! Even my girlfriend said 'just buy it!'.

Big question now whether I got CM6 or CM5. I think I'm going to need both. I hear what you are saying about whether it's dense backing or just solo acoustic.

So if it were solo acoustic, and best estimate of my vocals would be Howie Day (hoping you know him...) or maybe Ian Ball (from Gomez) which camp would you sit in? CM5 or 6?

I'm leaning toward CM5 for the darker richer lows and mids. I get the feeling I'm going to be buying both.

Dave

[Screws]

Originally Posted by daveando

I get the feeling I'm going to be buying both.

Dave

Yeah, I ended up with both CM5 and CM6. The beautiful thing about either mic is how easily they take eq to add more highs to the 5 (or more bottom to the 6.

But the richness of the low end in the 5 is something I keep coming back to. It's not just more bottom, it's the quality of the lows and low mids. There's a kind of exquisite detail imparted that just makes me smile.