Classic api - VP26 & VP312DI (audio samples)

[ScumBum]

Gar2520 vs Red Dot Shoot Out

I used 2 mics into 2 VP26's to record the same performance . All the Cables are the same , Mogami , same length . Mics are touching each other , as close together as possible . Gar2520 is in the first clip , then the Red Dot . BLA Sparrow Converter .

Let me know what you think about how the mics sound , I had them sitting in my closet for probably 10 years and got them out to hear them again .

[monkeyxx]

gosh the red dot sounds spectacular in the VP26... I might have to try one again with that op amp

[junior]

Have you guys compared the Gar and Red Dots in the VP312? I have Red Dots in mine, but I'm kinda' curious about the Gar...

[mrface2112]

Sounds to me that the Red Dot is a bit more forward in the low mids and the gar had a little more air. The low mids difference was most evident in the acoustic tracks. In fact, it made the acoustic a little boomy IMO, and i preferred the sound of the gar on the guitar. Of course, reverse the mics and i might prefer it the other way around.

Drums both sounded good....again the same observation i had above, the red dot was a little more aggressive and punchy (just a little), and i preferred the cymbals on the gar. i'd have to hear the rest of the instruments to say which of them i'd prefer in a mix. .

Both definitely very, very usable.


cheers,
wade

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by junior

Have you guys compared the Gar and Red Dots in the VP312? I have Red Dots in mine, but I'm kinda' curious about the Gar...

haven't compared but the GARs are doing great in mine. especially in my cinemag modified VP "512" (DI). would like some red dots to answer this question

[ScumBum]

Nobody said anything about the mics I used in the Gar/RedDot shoot out .

They are actually low end Shure AXS4 mics , which I believe is the same as the Shure PG81 and BG 4 .

[monkeyxx]

haha sneaky! I don't think you mentioned it

[ScumBum]

haha , yeah I just wanted to see if people would say , wow those mics sound great or those mics sound horrible !


I think they sound ok , not horrible but not great . For the price of like $40 used they ok . Like a step down from an SM81 .

[monkeyxx]

well now that you mention it...

but no. nicely executed. another failure in my quest for near true blind listening, and general awareness. it's good to keep people on their toes

[ScumBum]

I just know on Gearslutz as soon as you mention something is low end , instantly it sucks and is unusable . I rather have people give an honest listen first before they make an opinion .

Like that cheap ribbon mic you used to record some guitar , I think it was a Nady , that thing sounds good , but the cheap price would have sacred me away if I didn't hear it first .

[monkeyxx]

no I am exactly the same way, and gearslutz is that way like you said. it took me a long time to get up the guts to spend $70 on a microphone (the MXL ribbon) that might just be garbage like all the other $70 non dynamic microphones I've bought in the past. happily enough it was some sound clips on Gearslutz that got me to make the leap of faith, hopefully mine will do the same for someone else.

a really good cheap condenser I'm hanging on to in fancy company is the Audio Technica Pro 37. there's just something really cool about it being so tiny and sounding so...decent on lots of things... "warm" and smooth

I think the Avenson STO-2 might also almost be in this category, although I think it enjoys a pretty good reputation among those who've tried it. It's a "weird" one though being an omni only 1/4" diaphragm microphone with an odd looking shape. took some getting used to after years of cardioid and supercardioid on everything.

I guess these things should go in the "low end gold" thread on here. I've got some Symetrix 501 compressors and some vintage spring reverbs that are also cheap but excellent.

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

no I am exactly the same way, and gearslutz is that way like you said. it took me a long time to get up the guts to spend $70 on a microphone (the MXL ribbon) that might just be garbage like all the other $70 non dynamic microphones I've bought in the past. happily enough it was some sound clips on Gearslutz that got me to make the leap of faith, hopefully mine will do the same for someone else.

a really good cheap condenser I'm hanging on to in fancy company is the Audio Technica Pro 37. there's just something really cool about it being so tiny and sounding so...decent on lots of things... "warm" and smooth

I think the Avenson STO-2 might also almost be in this category, although I think it enjoys a pretty good reputation among those who've tried it. It's a "weird" one though being an omni only 1/4" diaphragm microphone with an odd looking shape. took some getting used to after years of cardioid and supercardioid on everything.

I guess these things should go in the "low end gold" thread on here. I've got some Symetrix 501 compressors and some vintage spring reverbs that are also cheap but excellent.

Cool , I'll check those mics out and that thread "low end gold" .

I'm starting to think if you get a nice mic pre like the CAPI and a good converter , some cheap mics can get you some decent good sounds .

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

Cool , I'll check those mics out and that thread "low end gold" .

I'm starting to think if you get a nice mic pre like the CAPI and a good converter , some cheap mics can get you some decent good sounds .

oh yeah...totally.

I think a smooth high end is so important in straight digital. that kind of bright super clarity can be really fatiguing. but the right mic, preamp combination can solve a lot of that without having to use corrective EQ. I think "toobs" and transformers, in preamps or compressors, eqs, hardware, etc, help a lot too.

I'm kind of getting sold on fancy mics, though, too. they seem to possess depth and clarity, something along those lines, realism, compared to the cheaper stuff, which still certainly has its places, though.

I have to say I'll never turn back from my Peluso 2247 SE on vocals, now that I've gotten the hang of it. The SM7, RE20 etc are all nice, but for me there's no going back. At least in the home studio setting.

as a counter example, I have found a wonderful distortion guitar sound using a $150 solid state amp (Fender Eighty Five) a $65 microphone (Audix OM3) a $100ish distortion pedal, and a free guitar that needed a lot of work, into my SCA N72 preamp ($320). The N72 helps me fill out the low end in my mixes and really seems to smooth out aggressive sources.

It seems to me that everything has its place, if you're smart enough about it all, know your own needs and limitations

[ScumBum]

I think you used the Peluso 2247 SE in one of your recent vocal clips , right ? Yeah that mic sounds amazing . It is super detailed and sounded like you were in the same room with me . I was really impressed . If I had the money I'd buy that mic for sure .

[monkeyxx]

yes that's the one. with the right treatment in the mix I can imagine to myself that I'm in Abbey Road using an old U47. I guess I'm still working on the abbey road mixing and arrangement chops though, haha

[ResonantMind]

How does the VP312 compress as you drive the input and lower the output? Does it start to sound more the way of the VP26?

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by ResonantMind

How does the VP312 compress as you drive the input and lower the output? Does it start to sound more the way of the VP26?

I don't know , but probably not . They are two different mic pres , different sounds . The magic of the VP26 is in its output transformer , and the VP312 has a different one .

[monkeyxx]

they won't sound the same, but, you can get the same type of soft clipping out of either one by driving the input and attenuating the output. they will sound different, though

[ScumBum]

Heres a one mic drum sound , SM7 into a CAPI pre .

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7681067-post183.html

[monkeyxx]

I like it! the kick drum sounds kind of funny though

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

I like it! the kick drum sounds kind of funny though

Thanks ,

I know the kick sounds a little weird to me too . I'm not sure if its the room , mic placement , tuning , or too much 240hz EQ boost trying to bring out the snare . Or I might not be used to hearing a natural kick drum in all its glory , which usually sounds different from the typical modern EQ sculpted kick sound .

[jrod9900]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

Gar2520 vs Red Dot Shoot Out

I used 2 mics into 2 VP26's to record the same performance . All the Cables are the same , Mogami , same length . Mics are touching each other , as close together as possible . Gar2520 is in the first clip , then the Red Dot . BLA Sparrow Converter .

Let me know what you think about how the mics sound , I had them sitting in my closet for probably 10 years and got them out to hear them again .

I can definitely tell a difference between the two, but I'm not sure there is a better or worse, just different characteristics. I am pretty sure I could use either and be happy.

JROD

[Essam Shomali]

having listened to all samples i really think that building these things would be a steal! so would you say that someone like me who has put together the electronics and wiring for a stratocaster guitar would be able to build one of these? are the instructions simple enough? thanks for any answer you can provide...

[monkeyxx]

you can do it. especially with Jeff's included assembly manual, and, the photo guides posted around here and elsewhere. just as long as you're not the type that breaks everything around you without trying

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by Essam Shomali

having listened to all samples i really think that building these things would be a steal! so would you say that someone like me who has put together the electronics and wiring for a stratocaster guitar would be able to build one of these? are the instructions simple enough? thanks for any answer you can provide...

I believe anyone could build one of these if they really wanted to . The help is here on the internet with guides and people you can ask questions , so you'll never be lost as how they go together . The only level of difficulty is the DOA's , Missing Link and VP312DI because they have really small spaces you have to solder . Get a Magnifying glass , check 5 times that the part is in the right spot before you solder and go slow . You'll have no problems and you'll find that they are fun and addictive to build . Once you hear them and realize how much money you saved , you'll never buy a prebuilt pre again .

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

you'll find that they are fun and addictive to build . Once you hear them and realize how much money you saved , you'll never buy a prebuilt pre again .

so true

[TimS]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

Thanks ,

I know the kick sounds a little weird to me too . I'm not sure if its the room , mic placement , tuning , or too much 240hz EQ boost trying to bring out the snare . Or I might not be used to hearing a natural kick drum in all its glory , which usually sounds different from the typical modern EQ sculpted kick sound .

I think it sounds great! That's pretty much just how a kick sounds when it hasn't had all the lower mids sucked out of it. Just out of curiosity, where did you place the mic?

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by TimS

I think it sounds great! That's pretty much just how a kick sounds when it hasn't had all the lower mids sucked out of it. Just out of curiosity, where did you place the mic?

I placed it in front of the kit about 4 1/2 feet back and about 4 1/2 feet from the floor pointing at the drums . Then at 80hz , boost around 8 dbs for some low end for the kick .

I learned this simple approach from reading about what Eric Valentine does . He gets the whole kick sound from that one mic out in front with some low end eq added .

Heres his technique with some extra mics added for stereo spread . http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5364374-post6.html