Evaluating AD/DA loops by means of Audio Diffmaker

[johnnyc]

Would like to see some tests of the Alesis HD24XR if anyone has one.

[nms]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

Would like to see some tests of the Alesis HD24XR if anyone has one.

Already tested in the ultimate loopback test thread. It's not in the results list but if you look thru the posts you'll find it.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

Would like to see some tests of the Alesis HD24XR if anyone has one.

Would be welcome of course!

Results list updated with Benchmark-Audiofire loop from david1103.

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.


ADDA converters

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

[david1103]

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

how can it be possible that its better quality going from audiofire4 output than DAC1 output!? the sound quality is FAR better on the DAC1, could there be an error in my setup or the way i did the test?

the DAC1 was fed by SPDIF out from the audiofire 4, out the Phono outs and back into the Audiofire4 3_4 inputs.

THANKS for any input on this!

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by david1103

how can it be possible that its better quality going from audiofire4 output than DAC1 output!? the sound quality is FAR better on the DAC1, could there be an error in my setup or the way i did the test?

the DAC1 was fed by SPDIF out from the audiofire 4, out the Phono outs and back into the Audiofire4 3_4 inputs.

Originally Posted by didier.brest

The left and right channels were swapped. But even after correction, the correlated depth is only 10 dB. Something should come wrong because Benchmark DAC1 performing much lower than any DAC tested here up to now is not expected.

There might be distortion at the phone output. Could you do the test with the DAC line outputs ?

[tommykn0cker]

didier,
how are your tests different from any loopback test, for example with the RMAA software?.. Doesn't it do the same, except with the sine sweep?

[didier.brest]

I do not know RMAA. The results from loopback performed on sine sweep and an orchestral recording like here might be different because of non-linear effects, which in my test could be ignore by the correlated depth measurement, sensitive only to linear distortion, but are accounted for in the difference RMS level. And for subjective evaluation, listening to music is more enjoyable than listening to a sine sweep.

Is there somewhere results from RMAA for all or some of the AD-DA converters tested here ?

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.


ADDA converters

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

[jinksdingo]

Gee there are some surprises in there.

Where you made a note of the input as not analogue; preamp or other. This really helps evaluate your results and is a great help.

Good work!

Hope some more get tested.

This is shaping up as a great resource.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by jinksdingo

Hope some more get tested.

This is shaping up as a great resource.

+1

I think it'd also be interesting to see some MOTU units tested here, since like 'em or not, they're probably the most popular brand "on the street."

[johnnyc]

The MOTU were tested in a different similar thread, surprisingly good measured results.

[6strings]

Yes. I saw that thread. Someone else running a separate test might help corroborate those conclusions..

[nms]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Yes. I saw that thread. Someone else running a separate test might help corroborate those conclusions..

haha.. I AM the someone else! If you read the intro you'd see I picked up from where kraku, didierbest (op of this thread), and the other guys left off and tightened up the analysis process , re-ran all the test analyses plus expanded the test content. The Motus are king of transparency. I'm going to get results up for the 828mk3 I just grabbed shortly.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by nms

haha.. I AM the someone else! If you read the intro you'd see I picked up from where kraku, didierbest (op of this thread), and the other guys left off and tightened up the analysis process , re-ran all the test analyses plus expanded the test content. The Motus are king of transparency. I'm going to get results up for the 828mk3 I just grabbed shortly.

Oh yeah, I know. Great thread! And it's your test that actually makes me wonder why we don't see any interest in including some MOTU units in this thread. Maybe didier received a knock on the door from some club-wielding high-enders? lol (just kidding!)

Looking forward to your mk3 findings!

[nms]

Well it does rely on people who have the units taking the time to run the test file with any of these tests. The question arises though about just how many times are needed to run the same type of test on a unit. The order of results seems pretty consistent.

[tommykn0cker]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

I do not know RMAA. The results from loopback performed on sine sweep and an orchestral recording like here might be different because of non-linear effects, which in my test could be ignore by the correlated depth measurement, sensitive only to linear distortion, but are accounted for in the difference RMS level. And for subjective evaluation, listening to music is more enjoyable than listening to a sine sweep.

@sine sweep - agreed; but we're trying to get some objective numbers here, aren't we?
While I am not an expert on these things, as far as I know RMAA was developed exactly for these kinds of tests and is used in more "scientific" reviews. The reports this software creates seem to me quite extensive and may give a better picture than having just one number to describe the whole interface
You might wanna take a look at it.

Is there somewhere results from RMAA for all or some of the AD-DA converters tested here ?

I looked for tests of Babyface and Duet2 (since I'm about to buy one of them), take a look:
Babyface (source, translated)
Duet2 (source, translated)

[nms]

I actually find the Diffmaker tests are best for measuring transparency. What better test than to see if a waveform arrives as a near perfect copy to the source? RMAA just fills in the rest of the picture and helps you understand where specifically a unit might be weak.

Hey didier.. you should update your first post with all the results!

[jinksdingo]

This is a valid way to test and is better than what came before any Diffmaker comparisons were done: SPECULATION

Some of the converters results beckon further investigation

It is obvious some converters color the sound on the way in. This can be a number of desirable embellishments but it does penalize their results in the loopback test.

Senior is the DAC. Here you want fidelity for monitoring.

If you are processing or mixing otb than the DAC you use can be one that embellishes too.

Ideally, as the testing evolves, both the sides of the converter can be measured, anyone can do it now.

The original file thru the DAC recorded and compared to the original compared to the loop back. Could be done once or 10 times to elucidate any difference.

Right now, this loopback test is a start.

[didier.brest]

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

[tommykn0cker]

Originally Posted by nms

I actually find the Diffmaker tests are best for measuring transparency. What better test than to see if a waveform arrives as a near perfect copy to the source? RMAA just fills in the rest of the picture and helps you understand where specifically a unit might be weak.

That's exactly what RMAA does as well (AFAIK) -- compares recorded signal to the original, but giving more details, as you said; and since less software is involved (different players, recorders, measuring rms etc), the results of RMAA might be a little bit more accurate and reproducible, and easier to acquire.
Nevertheless, ofc, thanks to didier and others for their efforts; just looking for ways to improve tests here.

[nms]

RMAA is handy for further exploring, but inferior for getting a true read on conversion transparency.

I got a brilliant result from a Motu 828 mk3 with RMAA. However, upon recording a loopback with my own test file and viewing the waveform I listed it for sale immediately. The Diffmaker test also corroborated the lower performance ranking.

[SiGGy]

Originally Posted by nms

RMAA is handy for further exploring, but inferior for getting a true read on conversion transparency.

I got a brilliant result from a Motu 828 mk3 with RMAA. However, upon recording a loopback with my own test file and viewing the waveform I listed it for sale immediately. The Diffmaker test also corroborated the lower performance ranking.

Test subject: Echo Audiofire 12, both versions one firewire port pointing up and one with it pointing down (different converters).

After doing this test I found there's too many variables here for this to be scientific, or significant.

For example:
Using audacity I got different results than I did sonar. Why? I don't know I don't have time to dig into it. But the 10th generation files produced different results. I'll do another cross compare with Sonar -> Protools when I have more time.

I also got different results when I used TRS connectors for the loops VS. TS. (balanced vs unbalanced) While only tiny differences... it's still a difference.

Not to mention there IS a difference if you're off say .5 dB in the calibration tone loop. By the tenth generation you've lost a lot of dynamics. Easily heard in the audio diff file and seen in the numbers. And you have to assume your software meters/drivers are providing you an accurate gauge to dial it in the 1st place. When i get time I'll double check this with a o-scope.

It's a neat test but there's too much room for human error here for the numbers to be really useful.

And finally... transparency....

If you did this test on a Studer A800 machine it would fail miserably (it would be of the worst). Would you go and immediately put it for sale too? I don't think so... Yet it would arguably sound the best of any of these interfaces depending on what your trying to do. And also assuming you have a competent engineer running it.

Anytime you do ANYTHING to a signal that deviates it from the original you're distorting it. Period.

But is all distortion bad? no...

I mean, transparency is not everything when recording. If it was transformer coupled boards which arguably sound the best wouldn't exist. All of the high end boards/preamps use transformers because they add in harmonics which are not there originally. *That* is what makes the "fat" round sound everyone raves about and is super easy to mix since it can also adds a tad bit of compression when you over-drive. Almost all of the analog boards use the same chips to do their summing, it's the preamps and especially the transformers that give it character. Or should I say make them less transparent but sound better.

This is a neat test but unless the software and human errors can be removed cross comparing data isn't going to be horribly useful. And like I was saying just because the numbers aren't "THE BEST" won't always mean it doesn't sound as good or even better.

What your doing here is a purity test, how clean and pure are my converters/op amps. I don't think it matters completely, if your happy with the end results these numbers don't mean anything. Like I said a Studer A800 would fail this test miserably. NO WAY I would kick it to the curb.

Happy testing It's a cool experiment.

[nms]

Cool story bro, but I think you're off track here.

Depending on how you have it setup you can easily run Diffmaker twice in a row on the same piece of audio, same settings and get slightly different results. We're talking less than 1db in the results though and not enough to make any significant change to the ranking.

I'm not sure why you're talking about how just because something's not transparent it doesn't mean it's not good. It's been obvious this is about transparency. Nothing more, nothing less. "sounds better" is almost useless to test due to its subjectivity. Yes a studer would fail this test. No I certainly would not like to dump everything I record onto one. Yes I would like to use one for some things. Transparency matters most to people recording through an interface who want to be able to choose the color imparted and not for it to be stamped on everything automatically.

I have also never witnessed a small variation in level to change the rankings in any significant way. As stated before, diff people have tested diff units and they always come up in the same order in these tests. There's your consistency.

[Panelhead]

Originally Posted by nms

Cool story bro, but I think you're off track here.

Depending on how you have it setup you can easily run Diffmaker twice in a row on the same piece of audio, same settings and get slightly different results. We're talking less than 1db in the results though and not enough to make any significant change to the ranking.

I'm not sure why you're talking about how just because something's not transparent it doesn't mean it's not good. It's been obvious this is about transparency. Nothing more, nothing less. "sounds better" is almost useless to test due to its subjectivity. Yes a studer would fail this test. No I certainly would not like to dump everything I record onto one. Yes I would like to use one for some things. Transparency matters most to people recording through an interface who want to be able to choose the color imparted and not for it to be stamped on everything automatically.

I have also never witnessed a small variation in level to change the rankings in any significant way. As stated before, diff people have tested diff units and they always come up in the same order in these tests. There's your consistency.

What is your analysis of the difference for the two TC Impact Twin results? The first test had excellent results. The later test was middle of the pack.



George

[nms]

Well this being didier's thread I didn't process the results myself to inspect anything first hand to see if there's any evidence of clipping or other.. but Ben who submitted the worse one mentioned something about a patch bay and normalizing the files in ableton which might have something to contribute there. It was 3db lower though so do keep that in perspective.

[_ben]

Originally Posted by Panelhead

What is your analysis of the difference for the two TC Impact Twin results? The first test had excellent results. The later test was middle of the pack.

George

There is no explanation because nobody is capable to explain step by step how is build the correlation depth number.
These are just numbers on a scientific point.

By the way you can't use the headphone output of the tc twin for monitoring.
As most of audio interfaces it borks the sound and kills all the details.

[didier.brest]

List updated with result from a Motu828mk2 loop performed by Laurend
DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

[quakenul]

MOTU 828mk2 at the top of the list? Can we get a second test on that please?

[6strings]

Here you go. Totally different test. Same results (second gen MOTUs on top).

The Ultimate Converter DA/AD Loopback Shootout Thread!

[nms]

Originally Posted by quakenul

MOTU 828mk2 at the top of the list? Can we get a second test on that please?

You must be new here

But hey, I was saying the same thing a few months back myself. Between mine and didier's threads we've tested 5 828mk2's between 4 users I think now.

They're brilliant for looping out to analog inserts. For tracking purposes or listening purposes they do benefit from slaving to a good external clock though. Mine tests significantly better when clocked from my Mytek. Going to add the results for that to the other thread soon.

[didier.brest]

List updated with result from two RME Multiface II loops recorded by juki, a member of the French forum Audiofanzine, one using 4 dBu balanced inputs, the other one using -10 dBV unbalanced inputs.

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Diff -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Diff -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!