VCC in use vs. Summing vs. ITB - Gearslutz.com Gearslutz.com
 


All Advertisers
Services Directory Reviews Jobs Deal Zone Merchandise Marketplace Music Biz Articles Video Vault Tips & Techniques
Go Back   Gearslutz.com > Gear Shootouts / Audio file uploads / Interviews / Podcasts / Video Vault / Links > Gear Shoot-Outs / Sound File Comparisons / Audio Tests
Reload this Page VCC in use vs. Summing vs. ITB
Register Posting Guidelines Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Chat Room [4]

VCC in use vs. Summing vs. ITB
New Reply New Reply Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th October 2010   #1
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
VCC in use vs. Summing vs. ITB
Hi Folks.

Some of you know I was bashing the VCC before I ever had it under my fingers.

By now I did a quick test with an old mix of the Album "Lost and found" - Song named giving up - by the Berlin Soul and Funk Singer Rasto Lewandowski.

I just inserted the VCC on every channel and the mix bus VCC on the mixbus.

You get three samples:
File-Upload.net - Samples-.zip

One is Pure ITB.
One is VCC 4 K
One is Neve 1073 summing thorough In-and-Output-Transformers.

The differences are to my ear subtle but I can hear it.
Most to recognize on the ambiances claps lead vocals. To my feeling there is also more glue in the VCC and the Neve summing sample.

Make yourself a picture I think it is all subtle but I guess the VCC is worth the thing when the track count gets higher. I don't know what they have done at slate but it seems like VCC can save you from truncation at higher track counts or just mixing at low levels on the mix bus.

This mix has just 16 single tracks, I cant wait to mix a song with up to 48 tracks with the VCC. Most interesting was to me how near the VCC and the Neve summing is.

All I can say congratulations to Slate Digital to my ears they did a great JOB.

Again it is subtle but you can hear with good monitoring or good headphones you get an idea of what VCC can do for you.

BTW I am not working for Slate in anyway I just want to share my surprise and the Joy about VCC... do the demo it is interesting what happens when you move faders around. There is a sweet spot on the single channels!!

Mr. H
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2010   #2
Lives for gear
 
The Beatsmith's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,053

Sorry to be 'that guy', but a Neve 73 is stereo - how can you sum on a stereo device? Do you just mean you ran it through the Neve on the master bus?

Oh, and wrong forum.
__________________
Need your songs mixed or mastered by top engineers? Check out our credits at www.onlinemusicmixing.co.uk

http://www.associatedminds.com
http://www.twitter.com/P_Leezy
The Beatsmith is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2010   #3
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beatsmith View Post
Sorry to be 'that guy', but a Neve 73 is stereo - how can you sum on a stereo device? Do you just mean you ran it through the Neve on the master bus?

Oh, and wrong forum.
Oh yes wrong forum...

Mh can someone move this sorry was my fault.

Yes I have 1073 clone by VintageDesign and to my ears running a mix thourgh it sounds a lot like so calles summing units...so the mix bus runss thourgh the 1073 in stereo.
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2010   #4
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,027

Ok, we're ready for the answers now!
djanthonyw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2010   #5
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
Ok, we're ready for the answers now!
No.
I am just interested in if you can hear differences and if yes what is it!!
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2010   #6
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,027

My guess is:

A - Pure ITB
B - VCC 4 K
C - Neve 1073
djanthonyw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2010   #7
Gear addict
 
rrraaalllfff's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338

i like A the least and B the best. A seems a bit lifeless compared to the other two. And B seems a tad deeper and clearer than C to me. So, which one's which? PM?
__________________
Ralf

Es ist nicht kaputt, es klingt nur so.
rrraaalllfff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010   #8
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrraaalllfff View Post
i like A the least and B the best. A seems a bit lifeless compared to the other two. And B seems a tad deeper and clearer than C to me. So, which one's which? PM?
You have good ears not all of your assumptions are right but you are very near.

I would love to hear more opinions.

What do you hear and why?

BTW.
I think you have to do some level matching sorry, was my fault.
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010   #9
Gear addict
 
rrraaalllfff's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
BTW.
I think you have to do some level matching sorry, was my fault.
I shall level match and listen again. This may have influenced my analysis a bit.

Thanks for the kind words and the PM.
rrraaalllfff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010   #10
Gear addict
 
antstudio's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 368

I'm guessing A: ITB, B: VCC, C: Neve. A seems a bit drier than the other two. C seems the smoothest on the vocal and the bass cuts through the best at 2-3 seconds. Really they're so close its a tossup.

..ant
antstudio is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010   #11
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by antstudio View Post
I'm guessing A: ITB, B: VCC, C: Neve. A seems a bit drier than the other two. C seems the smoothest on the vocal and the bass cuts through the best at 2-3 seconds. Really they're so close its a tossup.

..ant
Indeed what is interesting if you use these 3 things it gets hard to level match it.

Different summing options change the f-response of the mix.
One has more base the next more mids etc. so level matching gets hard.

I am wondering if VCC will get an industrie standard for mixing ITB.
I did some tests and all I can say as soon you switch it off you will have it back.

It is subtle so subtle but it seems like the ear fancies more the VCC version, or any other summing idea.

Pure psycho-acoustic but I like it.

Interesting that subtle things can change a mix.
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010   #12
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,027

djanthonyw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th October 2010   #13
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,420

I prefer B, then C. More punch, livelyness. So which is which?
living sounds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th October 2010   #14
Gear Head
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 74

A. itb
B. neve
C. vcc
scoots is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2010   #15
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
A = Neve 1073 Pseudo Summing.
B = VCC 4 K
C= Pure ITB

To my ears the ambiances on A, special on the lead vocal, is more alive.
On the VCC sample it comes next after the pseudo Neve Summing my guesswork is when hitting the input harder on the VCC 4 K it will get similar still different but also interesting changes in the overall print of the mix.

C sounds most flat to my ears, but I am biased I did the samples...
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2010   #16
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,420

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
A = Neve 1073 Pseudo Summing.
B = VCC 4 K
C= Pure ITB

To my ears the ambiances on A, special on the lead vocal, is more alive.
On the VCC sample it comes next after the pseudo Neve Summing my guesswork is when hitting the input harder on the VCC 4 K it will get similar still different but also interesting changes in the overall print of the mix.

C sounds most flat to my ears, but I am biased I did the samples...
Which converters did you use?
living sounds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2010   #17
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
Which converters did you use?
I use RME Fire Face 400 and 800 but the Clone was tracked back with the FF 400.
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2010   #18
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,420

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
I use RME Fire Face 400 and 800 but the Clone was tracked back with the FF 400.
That's probably why the Neve example finished last.
living sounds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2010   #19
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,374

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
That's probably why the Neve example finished last.
You get me wrong.
In my ears the Neve example is the best of all.

Please listen again and do some level matching.
I hear in the Neve example more glue-mud a wider soundstage and more lively reverbs.

Remeber A was the Neve.

It cant be the converters fault.
RME is not bad at all when I bought my R2R years ago we did tests with more expensive units and there was no reason at all not to take RME.

RME is not High-End and but many-miles away from being not professional.
Mr.HOLMES is offline  
Reply With Quote
New Reply New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread starter Forum Replies Last Post
SSL XRack v ITB Summing Cinemascope High end 47 8th June 2011 11:31 AM
OTB summing and ITB FX atniko High end 6 6th August 2010 07:04 PM
External analog Summing of ITB? billyindonesia Q & A with engineer / producer / artist - Alan Parsons 1 6th May 2010 04:34 PM
Summing ITB that sounds like summing OTB Mile-High So much gear, so little time! 37 15th September 2008 03:21 PM
Tips & Techniques:Summing ITB Considerations Jax Tips & Techniques 0 26th May 2008 08:33 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:12 AM.

Home - Search Forum - Contact Us - Terms Of Use / Privacy Policy - Advertise on Gearslutz - All Advertisers - Top
 
 
Powered by vBulletin®
Gearslutz.com LTD - UK Company Number 7597610.
Registered Office - 35 Ballards Lane, London, N3 1XW.
Hosted by Nimbus Hosting.

By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies.

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.