Bricasti vs Behringer Reverb - Audio Demos !

[Elhardt]

I keep reading the hoopla about the Bricasti M7 reverb, and I've listened to the audio samples people posted a couple of years back. Somebody will post an audio clip with some M7 reverb, sometimes so subtle and not very interesting, and then everybody goes gaga over it and acts like there's nothing else that can do the job. I'm not getting it. So I took some of their dry examples and ran them through a Behringer V-Verb that I got on sale for $99 (despite it's low price, it was meant to model high-end reverbs), and in most cases can get a nearly exact match. I wasn't given any info as to parameters to set and did it just by ear, and since the Behringer can have up to 29 parameters to adjust, I'm not as close as I could be. But still, I hear nothing that sets the M7 apart from the V-Verb that warrants all the hype (and the price).

Just a few audio demos below for those who want to hear them. There is a difference in the second one but I threw it in anyway because it's there. Each starts with the dry example followed by the two reverbed examples in random order. The last one is a Quantec Yardstick compared to the V-Verb.

Bricasti_Compare1.wav - Windows Live
http://cid-2e0c0e7567150d66.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Reverbs/Bricasti_Compare2B.wav
Bricasti_Compare3.wav - Windows Live
Quantec_Compare1.wav - Windows Live

Below I made a few cuts between Bricasti and Behringer leaving in the clicks and level differences so you can hear where the cuts are made, yet the sound of the reverb and the reverbed voice / cello still remains almost identical.

Bricasti_Interleaved.mp3 - Windows Live

The Behringer is actually a dual engine unit, so it's two complete reverbs under the roof. So that adds even more flexibility and opportunity to patch up even more comples reverbs if one wants to.

Does the emperor have no clothes? Or can somebody post a Bricasti demo that makes you go wow, now I get it. After trying to mimic the sounds of some reverbs, I've become more impressed with the TC Electronics M4000 100 percent wet demo somebody posted. That has a really nice tonality to it that I wasn't able to emulate, at least based on me having absolutely no information as to what algorithm he used or any parameter settings.

-Ken Elhardt

[Empire Prod]

It all sounds like an SMS2000 to me

[xist]

cannot listen to the files right now, but I'm subscribing to this thread, it's gonna be fun...

[Morppi]

Can't wait until evening so I can get home and listen to those files.

Things like this make reading gearslutz worthy.

Although I can't believe that a Behringer unit would be worth anything else than it's weight in scrap metal - I hope I'm proven wrong.

[Sqye]

.

there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with behringer verbs.

hey, if they're good enough to be used on the first beatles and zeppelin records,
then they're CERTAINLY good enough for me...

.

[Shy]

I'm sorry to say that it's very easy to notice the huge quality difference even with these pretty bad (for reverb showcase) raw samples. I'm not gonna bother describing the differences with idiotic words, the samples speak for themselves.
I understand your point about people going "wow" over any dumb ass sample, but I disagree with your observations of the sound and differences..

[Tonegirater]

Great post.
I would go with the V verb for the money saved. The lack of difference in quality vs money spent is quite astounding.

[Tonwerker]

Soory guys,
I´m pretty shure as far as you put it into a mix, you will "feel" the differences.

so technical spoken:
take a closer ear to the lower frequencys - something thatr the behringer seems to have a problem with, otherwise the lower end is not represented in this reverb, but in the M7, without making things muddy or dumb (Not spoken about the higher freqs, distorting like hell...) - I think it is the element makes the differences between a good emulation and a truth reverb.
my 2cents -
and a very convincing example what I´m missing in my verbs - seems like I got to buy me a M7...

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by Elhardt

Does the emperor have no clothes? .

-Ken Elhardt

Oh the emperor definitely has clothes. And made from the finest materials.

I can't believe you entertained the thought of posting this nonsense, let alone did it.

When you know what to listen for you will realize that the M7 is worth its weight in gold. Really. There's no hype.

To repeat a really broken analogy - a Yugo might get you to where you want to go if you're lucky, a Rolls Royce will guarantee your arrival in style.

Do you need a RR? For most people perhaps not, but for the true lover of artificial reverb, the Bricasti shines like the Caribbean noonday sun, compared to naked light bulb swinging from the ceiling in a dingy room.

[Entrainer]

I give Elhardt credit for actually attempting a comparison with his own ears.
That's a successful trait, testing instead of blindly believing. Whatever the
outcome of the thread, don't give up testing and comparing.

I can't get the files to DL. Can you attach them via GS?

[norman_nomad]

Ummm... so the OP is randomly switching between the two verbs... right?

For those claiming how obvious the difference is, shouldn't you be telling us, in each example, which one is the Bracasti and which is the Behringer?

[G-Spot]

Could you please post some samples of a dry drum kit and then "placing" the drums in a nice mid size wood room with the Bricasti, the Quantec, and the Behringer please? Thanks.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

Could you please post some samples of a dry drum kit and then "placing" the drums in a nice mid size wood room with the Bricasti, the Quantec, and the Behringer please? Thanks.

If you read the original post, it does not appear he owns the Bricasti.

[Shy]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

Ummm... so the OP is randomly switching between the two verbs... right?

For those claiming how obvious the difference is, shouldn't you be telling us, in each example, which one is the Bracasti and which is the Behringer?

I don't know, should I? If you must, then sure. First in each sample is the Bricasti/Quantec, second is V-Verb, and I'm not bothering with the mp3.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Shy

I don't know, should I? If you must, then sure. First in each sample is the Bricasti/Quantec, second is V-Verb, and I'm not bothering with the mp3.

Well good to put your vote in...

I'm not sure which is which, but I enjoyed...

1. I like #1
2. I like #2
3. I like #1
4. I don't really like either but slightly prefer #2

[Shy]

I'm a fool for replying after over a day of no sleep, I remembered nothing. The first only in sample1 is Bricasti. All the rest, second one is the Bricasti/Quantec. Sorry. That's the correct order, guaranteed.
Now, like G-Spot said, percussive sounds would expose the differences much more, and so will anything that isn't as continuous and smooth as the vocal and string samples.

[Voyage.One]

For the price of the M7, I bought a TC 4000 and a Neumann TLM-103
(separate purchases).Even though the M7 IR's sound incredible.
I just can't justify spending close to four grand on a reverb when there's cheaper alternatives and mics to buy.

[The Doctor]

Cool...but the difference stands out like a sore thumb to me between the two..why do you think they sound the same? Bricasti has a similar tone to the 480L, the Beringher sounds a little anaemic and flat to me..although very good.

Anyway I hear this..

1. #1 = Bricasti
2. #2 = Bricasti
3. #1 = Bricasti
4. #2 = Quantec

[Warp69]

Originally Posted by The Doctor

1. #1 = Bricasti
2. #2 = Bricasti
3. #1 = Bricasti
4. #2 = Quantec

Correct.

[Shy]

Originally Posted by Warp69

Correct.

Damn, the first string sample seemed to have too much modulation to me. Maybe it's a v2 algorithm? In any case, that's the only sample where it's actually hard to tell and both sound good.

[Warp69]

I think that 'The Doctor' described one of the differences very accurately. High-end reverbs delivers a spaciousness that very few other reverbs can match. And it's quite easy to hear that on those samples - the effect is even more pronounced with headphones.

Most mid-range and low'end hardware reverbs (and particular plugin reverbs) doesn't have that wide stereo image. They sound very center oriented - the output signal is stereo, but the sound doesn't surround you and is mono/center like.

[Shy]

Yes but the difference is in much more than just that, for example in the first sample a fragmented synthetic sound is clearly audible in the decay while the Bricasti has absolutely none of that, only a smooth and detailed sound.

The Quantec reverb, even if not "lush" which most people expect, sounds to me like it's less "in addition" to the voice and more of an extension of it, with no "prettifying" whatsoever but still very lively.

With the cello sample, there's much less chance to hear any artifacts and cons or pros of any reverb except the stereo image. If I used headphones instead of speakers positioned in a hardly "stereo" pattern, then maybe I would have gotten the answer right. Other than that, many reverbs, even ones that aren't nearly as good as V-Verb, can give an acceptable result with such a source sound.

[rockmanrock]

It's a shame Ken had to use existing Bricasti demos as reverb nuts on here will no doubt be familiar with them and have them on their hard drives. The results for this test were also published on the AH list a few days back. Now I'm not saying anyone cheated but..

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Shy

Damn, the first string sample seemed to have too much modulation to me. Maybe it's a v2 algorithm? In any case, that's the only sample where it's actually hard to tell and both sound good.

I totally agree. In the cello sample I thought both sounded good. In fact, I prefer the parameters the OP used in the second example.

So do we know the answers yet? Warp69 comes in to say 'correct', but we have yet to hear from the OP....

Originally Posted by rockmanrock

The results for this test were also published on the AH list a few days back.

What is the 'AH list' and where can I find it?

[rockmanrock]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

What is the 'AH list' and where can I find it?

Analogue Heaven

[Warp69]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

So do we know the answers yet? Warp69 comes in to say 'correct', but we have yet to hear from the OP....

I would be extremely surprised if the result is different than what 'The Doctor' suggested. I can't make the M7 nor the Quantec to sound like the other samples.

[Quint]

I'll have to give these a listen when I get home. I'm interested to hear the differences.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Warp69

I would be extremely surprised if the result is different than what 'The Doctor' suggested. I can't make the M7 nor the Quantec to sound like the other samples.

Yeah... i just check the AH link that rockmanrock posted and indeed the results are as The Doctor posted...

Interesting test. I don't think the B verb is horrible... it's better than many plug verbs I've used in the past... but the Bricasti does stand out here as sounding more elegant.

[SaxJordan]

#1 Bricasti first
#2 Bricasti second
#3 Bricasti first
#4 the dry sample is kind of unlistenable, I'm not sure which is which but I'll guess Bricasti is second


The Bricasti-Behringer differences are HUGE from what I heard just now. Worth the price differential? That's a personal judgement.
I listened through Prism DAC, sony SA5000 headphones. Monitoring will make a difference in hearing reverbs, I can understand how these reverbs might sound more similar through a lower quality monitoring chain.
It's all in the details. The Bricasti is more nuanced, smoother, more natural sounding, has more compelling sense of space, fewer digital artifacts peeking through. You have to play with a piece of gear for a while to learn it inside and out and see how it works in different contexts; I think if you had the Behringer and Bricasti side by side and spent some time with them the differences would become even more obvious. Behringer is just not in the same league.

Even though I don't agree with your conclusions, the premise of challenging dogma and actually doing a test rocks, so hat goes off to you for actually doing a shootout! thumbsup

[Shy]

Originally Posted by SaxJordan

Even though I don't agree with your conclusions, the premise of challenging dogma and actually doing a test rocks, so hat goes off to you for actually doing a shootout! thumbsup

Yep. thumbsup