Bricasti vs Behringer Reverb - Audio Demos !

[Elhardt]

Originally Posted by StoneinaPond

Oh the emperor definitely has clothes. And made from the finest materials.

I can't believe you entertained the thought of posting this nonsense, let alone did it.

That's a ridiculous comment. I put these up on the Analogue Heave forum and not one person guessed all 4 correctly, and you of course didn't even try. Somebody says the difference it obvious and then guesses wrong. Shy got some wrong, re-guessed and still wasn't completely correct. So the differences aren't all so obvious. And in one part of the Cello demo, to me the Behringer seems to have a slightly larger stereo image.

To address Shy, the Bricasti examples are from 3 years ago, so they wouldn't be V2. And to address whoever else it was, if modulation in the tail wasn't to your liking in one Behringer example, it can easily be lessoned. Those things are not fixed in stone.

To address other issues, the Bricasti dry examples I processed through the Behringer were wav files, not MP3's. However, that brings up another point. All of the Bricasti and Quantec wet examples were MP3's because that's how people posted them. So many times I've heard people say the difference between compressed MP3's and uncompressed audio is so obvious, yet right here in these examples nobody knows the difference.

And as somebody pointed out, I don't have a Bricasti reverb. I'm limited to the dry and wet examples others have posted. I can't show drums unless somebody else posted drum samples. I also need to point out again that I had no info about how the Bricasti parameters were set. The Behringer has 29 parameters, which is about twice that of the Bricasti. I have to guess at predalays, ER/Tail mix, wet/dry mix, high-cut / lo-cut, damping, diffusion, stereo spread, modulation amount/type/rate, room type, room material, and so on. So if somebody makes a superficial observation like there is more low-end in the Bricasti therefore it's worth orders of magnitude more in price, well it's really simple to then add more low-end to the Behringer. That's part of what making adjustments is all about; hearing what needs to be changed and changing it. I think based on the confusion of two forums now, that I've made a point. There just isn't as much difference as you'd like to make it out to be.

And one more thing. The Behringer unit is a dual engine unit. So with two complete reverbs there's even more flexibility. You can have two different sets of early reflections running at once, or simulate a close up room and a far away hall, or have double thick reverbs, or all kinds of things. Maybe the Behringer can then sound better than the M7. People are always exaggerating any micro differences between things on these boards which I find ridiculous. But hey, let's look at some simple logic. If the M7 is in a class all by itself and is way better than any Lexicon or TC Electronics unit, but the V-Verb is close enough to the M7 to fool many people, then at least that means the V-Verb is better than a Lexicon or TC Electronics reverb. I'm satisfied with that.

-Elhardt

[Elhardt]

Originally Posted by Entrainer

I can't get the files to DL. Can you attach them via GS?

I don't know anything about attaching them via GS... There shouldn't be any problem downloading them. When you click on one of my links it will take you to an icon that looks like a piece of paper with a musical note on it. On the PC (I'm using Firefox), you can left click on that icon and it should open a dialogue box that asks whether you want to download it or play it. I'm also able to right click on it and use the "save link as" option and download it that way too. That Skydrive is made for downloading, so there shouldn't be a problem doing that. But then again, Skydrive is part of Hotmail which is Microsoft, and they can't do anything right.

-Elhardt

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by Elhardt

But hey, let's look at some simple logic. If the M7 is in a class all by itself and is way better than any Lexicon or TC Electronics unit, but the V-Verb is close enough to the M7 to fool many people, then at least that means the V-Verb is better than a Lexicon or TC Electronics reverb. I'm satisfied with that.

-Elhardt

You really want this to be true... but it is not complete logic. V verb is a useful reverb device, it is really cheap and you can use it without anyone throwing up what bad reverb you used in a mix...

But the quality of Bricasti was obvious in those examples - it enveloped the signal seemlesly - no metallic ringing in the tail in No.1, almost glued ambience with the source in no.2, a very smooth big space, enveloping the cello naturally in no.3. In comparison Behringer was not so "integrated" with the signal, there was some metallic ringing in the tail in No.1...

All that said - I am recently satisfied with some plug-ins (TC, UAD, Nebula, Virsyn Reflect 2, also tested the Lexicon bundle - wow...) of which I can use many instances, not only one as with this Behringer, so their price/value ratio is even better and they can get closer in sound to Bricasti than this device...

Behringer V verb is probably cool for live applications if it is reliable enough (and project OTB studios - if such thing still exists)... but you can still have some low-end (and also cheap) Lexicon ready for back up...

Don't try to blow the value of something out of proportion, keep some realism: it is useful, it is good, but some things are still better, even if they cost insanely much more... that's the only "problem"... If Bricasti would be only 100$ more - which one would you buy?

[StudioLogic]

If the audio samples are three years old for the Bricasti I am assuming the samples are three years old for the Quantec also. If this is true you would be compairing samples from a Quantec Yardstick 2402 that is 13 years old now.

The new Quantec Yardstick is the 2492.

I can arrange to get one to you to listen to if you would like to listen to a current model.

[Shy]

Elhardt: I didn't guess some wrong and reguessed, like I said, it was an error. Also, after listening to the cello sample with headphones and with properly spaced speakers, the difference in "spaciousness" between the two was clear. I don't understand one thing, do you not notice disadvantages like the synthetic artifacts in the decay or are you just ignoring them since you think they're unimportant? I'm not saying it's clear because I want to piss you off, I'm saying it because this difference is something I perceive as a huge quality factor.

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by Elhardt

That's a ridiculous comment. I put these up on the Analogue Heave forum and not one person guessed all 4 correctly, and you of course didn't even try.

I don't do parlor games.

Putting an instrument through a reverb in a studio is one thing. Listening to downloaded samples is something completely different and to my mind a waste of bandwidth.

I don't have the Behringer but I do have the M7. I've had a slew of cheap reverb boxes over the years and while on first listen some might excite you, in the long run they all fail.

And as far as processing goes, two engine versus 6 state of the art, dual-core Analog Devices DSPs - you've got to be kidding me.

I'm not sure I really want to go on trying to tell convince you because you'll believe what you want to believe. But for me, the search for the holy grail of reverb is close to fruition. I can't tell you how much I love what that piece does to any source material I throw at it. It's reverb heaven.

[Johnny Paez]

wow I liked the string reverbs

and Bricasti sounds amazing¡¡

[phillysoulman]

Honestly,all of the samples sound like crap.

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by Elhardt

That's a ridiculous comment. I put these up on the Analogue Heave forum and not one person guessed all 4 correctly, and you of course didn't even try. Somebody says the difference it obvious and then guesses wrong.

-Elhardt

I really don't know how you can't hear the difference. The two reverbs sound completely different to each other.

Forget which is which. Forget which is best. Forget which you prefer.

There is a clear sonic difference between each sample. Next.

One thing you learn from years of mixing and using reverb, is anything can work, from the cheapest to the most expensive units..they are all shades to paint with..

I've never ever chosen a reverb from listening to a sample. In the real World it tells you nothing.

I buy the box, put in the studio for a year or longer and actually use it...if I don't go 'wow' whilst actually mixing and using it over a long period, it gets sold.

That's my test.

[Doc Mixwell]

Every time I insert the M7 somewhere I can hear why I really like it. I didn't listen to your samples - and hardly read this thread at all, but IMO the M7 is pretty impressive against all others, and IMO worth the money spent for a product that carries a higher standard in all aspects of build and sonic qualities. Casey and Brian are truly great designers, and it might be fair to say that ULI's camp hasn't got .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000003% of the design prowess that those two gentleman have. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

[rockmanrock]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Every time I insert the M7 somewhere

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

I didn't listen to your samples - and hardly read this thread at all,

So why respond? What's the point?

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

but IMO the M7 is pretty impressive against all others, and IMO worth the money spent for a product that carries a higher standard in all aspects of build and sonic qualities.

Ah I see, Mr Gear Pimp who sells Bricasti and not Behringer

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Casey and Brian are truly great designers, and it might be fair to say that ULI's camp hasn't got .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000003% of the design prowess that those two gentleman have. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

Why is it fair to say that? You've not even listened. You don't know who the Behringer designers are. The V-Verb may or may not be up there with the Bricasti but if you read the V-Verb thread you will find people who prefer it over their Lexicons, TCs and Kurzweils.

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by rockmanrock

You don't know who the Behringer designers are.

Heres the Behringer team:

[rockmanrock]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Heres the Behringer team:

Okay, who did they pinch the V-Verb from?

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by StoneinaPond

a Rolls Royce will guarantee your arrival in style.

Only if your engineer, I mean, driver isn't crocked to the gills....

[hsten]

I think I have to agree with StudioLogic in regards to the Quantec. It seems to be a audio sample from the 2402 which came out in 1997. Quantec has an excellent new website with a wide range of samples from the new line of room simulators. Highly recommended!

[RusRant]

This thread is funny! As an owner of 3 V-verbs, I can say without hesitation it is a good effects box/reverb. I have never used a Bricasti, but have used many other high end reverbs. I can say it's on par with some of those. Is it as good as a Bricasti? God I hope not for $3600 cheaper!!! But is it a good, very flexible box? Yes. Does that make it a great reverb? In my opinion, I can get some really really good reverbs from it. To me that's all that matters. Would I trade my V-verb for a Bricasti? Yeah, one of them, and I'd keep the other two.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by rockmanrock

So why respond? What's the point?

Because I have used the M7, that's why.

Ah I see, Mr Gear Pimp who sells Bricasti and not Behringer

I won't promote a manufacture that steals designs. I will promote a product that serves a higher standard and has yet to be matched. But - you miss the point entirely - I only posted because I've ACTUALLY used an M7, unlike so many example viewers around here.

Why is it fair to say that? You've not even listened. You don't know who the Behringer designers are. The V-Verb may or may not be up there with the Bricasti but if you read the V-Verb thread you will find people who prefer it over their Lexicons, TCs and Kurzweils.

Because its obvious having used both manufactures products and looking inside them. Oh, and also having personally talked with Brian and Casey about their designs as well. And I don't care about samples on GS. They mean nothing to me. What do they have in common with my studio and application. Nothing. They are previews of other things. I can easily make an M7 sound worse that it actually does. Its not hard. Personally - I only care what happens on my Effects Returns on any given sunday.

[RusRant]

Yeah, even never having seen the inside of a Bricasti, I can confidently say it's built better than a V-verb. As it should be. It's probably $500 of better sound, and $2100 better build! Or something close

[Marcus67]

Lots of talk an hardly any votes...?

I liked:

2 on the first, 1 on the second and 1 on the third. Hope I liked the cheap one more.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

I won't promote a manufacture that steals designs.

Well, I would not say this is true. You have some gear that is basically Neve, Neumann, etc designs.

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by Elhardt

Each starts with the dry example followed by the two reverbed examples in random order. The last one is a Quantec Yardstick compared to the V-Verb.

i like...
1A
2B
3A
QA

[Marcus67]

Time for results? Its been many long months!

[RusRant]

Originally Posted by PDC

Well, I would not say this is true. You have some gear that is basically Neve, Neumann, etc designs.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. But if it cost's 3k and is stolen, it's OK.

[elan]

ehm results?

[Den]

Try those presets first!
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6764550-post672.html

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by RusRant

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. But if it cost's 3k and is stolen, it's OK.

Ha! Seriously though...

[Elhardt]

Originally Posted by Marcus67

Time for results? Its been many long months!

I thought this thread was over with my last comment, but see it kept going on. The correct order was given by somebody else and I believe I acknowledged that, but here's the correct order.

(113) Dry - Bricasti - Behringer
(114) Dry - Behringer - Bricasti
(115) Dry - Bricasti - Behringer
(117) Dry - Behringer - Quantec

[Elhardt]

Excuse the late response to this older thread as I didn't know there was continuing discussion. But I want to address the comments by Shy, StoneinaPond, Space Station.

Despite Shy saying he didn't guess wrong and reguessed, even after your reguessing you still didn't get one of them correct. It's right here for all to see in the thread.

To all three of the above who keep involving me in the discussion, and questioning why I can't hear the difference, you have totally missed the point. It's not about ME! It's OTHERS who can't consistently hear the difference between the two and thus there is NOT a HUGE difference between the two. That's why I put this on the internet for others to listen to and guess. And then there are those who won't listen or guess because they're all talk and they usually come up with predictable tactics to try to turn the tables like diverting attention by mentioning DSP power within the product, or saying listening to downloaded audio files is meaningless. The latter really lacks any kind of logic since the entire purpose of digital reverbs is to record with, which means the end result is a digital audio file, and whether that file is delivered on a CD or downloaded, THE DIGITAL DATA IS THE SAME. In fact, one of the reasons to post a blind test like this is to read ridiculous comments and observe irrational human behavior.

I ran across some talk in another thread a short while back that Bricasti was coming out with an A/D converter that would probably cost about $8000, and then reading the posts from the people getting all excited and wondering how it would sound. How it would sound? Seems like an A/D shouldn't sound like anything if it's doing what it's supposed to do. The output should sound like the input which is pretty much what any half-way decent converter already does. I look forward to hearing people posting audio samples of a Bricasti ADC and fawning over it as if nothing recorded in the history of mankind is acceptable now that the Bricasti has arrived, so I can run them through the built-in A/D and D/A on the motherboard on a cheap computer then post some blind tests for people to fail.

-Elhardt

[Aaron Rash]

Dude I'm sorry but I hear a massive difference. Especially with the diffusion and the stereo image.

[Elhardt]

Originally Posted by Aaron Rash

Dude I'm sorry but I hear a massive difference. Especially with the diffusion and the stereo image.

Since virtually everybody else who has heard them couldn't guess 100% correctly and since I have ears myself and can hear that there isn't a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE, your comment doesn't make sense. And it's this constant over exaggerating that I find annoying when it comes to gear. Any differences in most of those audio files I posted are subtle at most. In addition I have to point out again that the Behringer has about 30 reverb parameters that can be adjusted, including things like diffusion and stereo image, not to mention a whole second reverb to boot. Since I had zero information on how the Bricasti was set up in other people's demos nor do I own one where I could isolate the reverb to listen closely, I just guessed at a bunch of stuff and dialed in parameters to get close. I'm sure it could be dialed in closer.

-Elhardt