BIG Preamp Shootout: API, Great River, Grace 501, GAP Pre 73, FMR RNP, Art, Behringer

[bladelaw]

The Contenders

API 512c
Great River MP-500NV
Grace 501
FMR Audio RNP
Golden Age Pre 73
Behringer Ultragain
Art Tube MP

Recording Chains

electric guitar

2001 Gibson Les Paul Junior (drop tuned to C#) -> P90 (bridge) -> Mesa Single Rectifier (modern) -> THD Hotplate (bright & deep switch) -> Carvin Legacy 2x12 cab /w Vintage 30 (1 speaker used) -> sm57 (1" from grill, pointed at cap) -> [preamp] -> Lynx L22 -> Nuendo

accoustic

Yamaha F335 (ultra light strings) -> Studio Projects T3 (50% cardioid, 50% figure 8) - -> [preamp] -> Lynx L22 -> Nuendo

bass

Musicman Stingray 5 (stock) -> Tech 21 VT Bass -> [preamp] -> Lynx L22 -> Nuendo

vox

SM7b - [preamp] -> Lynx L22 -> Nuendo


Guessing games annoy me, so I've put the name of each pre on the files. Levels were adjusted by eyeballing the meters. I also don't believe in re-amping, so these are separate performances. Why? Because...that's how life is.

I welcome any and all questions.

and with that, I'll let the clips speak for themselves...

[...Jazz!,]

thanks.

[jnorman]

+1 for posting these.

in your opinion, how well did the behringer hold up against the others? i listened, and have my own opinion, but i would like to hear what others think...

[bladelaw]

The Behringer was the brightest of the bunch. It's completely usable.

I'd describe it as "rough around the edges" sounding on detailed sources like vox and accoustic guitar, but that could be exactly what you want.

[fakiekid]

Acoustic - API
Bass - Great River
Guitar - Golden Age (GR close second.)
Vox - Grace

purely for the sounds you have here, they would be my choices.

[guitarsfrommars]

Excellent format to compare them in for an individual process.

Found myself mostly listening to the Neve related pres, and the API...

Thanks, well done.

[Stepping_Stone]

So this may not have been the point of this shootout, but I've been trying to decide whether my next purchase will be a couple of new mics or a high end pre...this made my decision for me.

[l.sicilian]

Originally Posted by StudioRat81

So this may not have been the point of this shootout, but I've been trying to decide whether my next purchase will be a couple of new mics or a high end pre...this made my decision for me.

Out of curiosity, what is your decision?

PS: I am not asking because I have got a Daking up for sale! :P

[Stepping_Stone]

That I will most likely get the most bang for my buck by buying a couple of contrasting but complimentary, medium price range mics. While I do hear differences between these preamps (particularly on vocals), they are just so subtle compared to the differences I hear when comparing microphones, generally speaking. I'm sure that some day, when I've built up a nice collection of high end gear, I will see the value in dropping a few grand to get a different preamp "flavor." But that day is not today.

[jnorman]

aaron - certainly a valid feeling. if what you need is some differnt flavors, a variety of mics is the way to go. OTOH, if you are doing 48 track mixes, you are also going to be in need of some nicely made preamps - the differences in circuit topography and selection of individual components, which are very difficult to hear in a single track or two, start becoming much more obvious as the track count starts piling up...

[l.sicilian]

Originally Posted by StudioRat81

That I will most likely get the most bang for my buck by buying a couple of contrasting but complimentary, medium price range mics. While I do hear differences between these preamps (particularly on vocals), they are just so subtle compared to the differences I hear when comparing microphones, generally speaking. I'm sure that some day, when I've built up a nice collection of high end gear, I will see the value in dropping a few grand to get a different preamp "flavor." But that day is not today.

That's a wise decision, Jnorman good point too.

It's all about priorities/needs I always say, and budget of course.

[Bubbakron]

it would be cool if you could post the rough mixes of all the preamps!! Im blown away at the quality of the fmr!!! wow

[Strangeland]

I can't stop coming back to this thread. Just wanted to give you props for a great shootout. If I had to pick one, it would be the Great River. That's just the flavor for me. I guess that's why I own it's nephew the GAP Pre.

[Retinal]

API on everything, FMR comes second, especially on voice

[Unrealworld82]

I really like the Great River, especially on voice. The Behringer was at least not as hazy as I thought. I am not an API fan, and this reaffirmed that.

Edit: To give the API credit, it sounded by far the best on bass to me. Conversely, the Great River sounded completely terrible with bass!

[Thwacko]

I voted for the Golden Age. It may not be the best on everything, but it works on everything when more expensive options don't. API always has a certain magic and vibe, but I know I'm very happy my GA compares well.

[wildmanofrock]

Either I have ears of cloth or there is very very little difference between these preamp results. Well, there are differences, but are they really worth worrying about? Emporer's new clothes?

[KillerV]

Indeed, the results are fairly subtle. I was quite suprised by the results I heard. After a good number of listens my choices were pretty much between the API and RNP, with the RNP winning more times than the API, funnily enough. I did not like the Great River that much and I agree that it sounds terrible on bass.

[oceantracks]

API

[DeeVox]

Oh yeas API all over!

Just listen to how it sits depth-wise! The others are in my ears more up front which might become a mess when stacking up a lot of tracks. The API just sounds done already.
I actually agreed in full with the poll! Nice too agree for once, I usually think "number three? what the...? are they high?

[satellitedog]

Yippie, I don't have to throw away the old Ultragain!!! :-) Though it sounds a little hollow. Lack of mids/low mids?

On the other hand, the time is ripe for buying a GAP...

[PeteJames]

Intetesting, thanks for making the test. I did the test just to see whether I thought it was worth spending £1000s on preamps to either sound transparent or add character. My conclusion is that there is no point in me doing this at all - the difference is so negligible I don't really have a preference for any of them. I'd quite happily use the cheapest and will therefore focus my spending on other things :-)

[wildmanofrock]

Originally Posted by PeteJames

Intetesting, thanks for making the test. I did the test just to see whether I thought it was worth spending £1000s on preamps to either sound transparent or add character. My conclusion is that there is no point in me doing this at all - the difference is so negligible I don't really have a preference for any of them. I'd quite happily use the cheapest and will therefore focus my spending on other things :-)

++1

[realmike15]

Thank you so much for doing this! Of all the Pre's... I think the API wins hands down. It's the only one with warmth that doesn't sound sterile and digital. I'm disappointed in the Great River, which I thought for the price would be less brittle sounding. That's probably just my personal feelings, I'm sure for some people the Great River is their favorite.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by realmike15

Thank you so much for doing this! Of all the Pre's... I think the API wins hands down. It's the only one with warmth that doesn't sound sterile and digital. I'm disappointed in the Great River, which I thought for the price would be less brittle sounding. That's probably just my personal feelings, I'm sure for some people the Great River is their favorite.

I went through the preamp affliction years back, I had a the GR, the TG, a Buzz MA2, a UA, and probably more I've forgotten....and finally settled on the API after hearing about the 512c for years. I use it daily and never think about pres any more. If I had more disposable income the only other pre I wouldn't mind having around sometimes for some things would be the Buzz.

API is a no brainer.

TH

[sound125]

After listening to the acoustic gtr samples, I was rather surprised at the results. I found that the Golden Age Pre added some depth and body and thoroughly overshadowed the GR pre. Surprisingly, the Behringer was another top contender. The API had an airy quality, but lacked the depth of the Golden Age. The RNP also sounded full and added body to the source.

1. Golden Age
2. API
3. Behringer
4. RNP

Total Dissapointments:

GR
Grace
Art

[sound125]

For vox:

1. Golden Age (warm, slightly brighter than GR)
2. GR (full and warm)
3. API (Airy quality that opens the vocal up some, but not as full sounding as the Golden Age or GR)
4. Behringer (balanced and a tad brighter)

[lpkyer]

Those converters in the lynx sound pretty damn good...

What preamps are used in the Z rough mix sample?

[pacorro]

Me and my wife always prefer the Behringer.
Amazing for the price.
to me the difference with very expensive pres doesn't worth the money.

A 35$ pre sounds basically the same as a 1200$ pre. A lot of electronics, opamps, trannys... are needed just to sound a very very very very very little better (or sometimes sounds the same).
So Behringer must be a great design, because sounds good with cheap components ensembled by non professional people in China. So, to me, Behringer is the real deal: good results for a ridiculous price, affordable to anyone.

If you can't do a good recording with the Behringer, you don't need new gear, you just need to learn more about using your gear and recording/mixing.

[haryy]

The FMR is top notch! Great, euphonic sound in all samples.thumbsup
Thanks for the test.