TG12413 Hardware Versus The Plugin

[CaptainHook]

I ran a simple mono drum loop through our hardware TG12413 at work and
tried to match by ear the settings on the Abbey Road plugin.

We have four of the hardware units and i picked the one i liked the most.

Download the files and post your preference! Or if you can, try guess which is the real or hardware one!

I will reveal the answers/details after the weekend.

TG12413 Files

[yoshimodular]

In my system (Apogee + Mackie HR824) sound SO CLOSE that I can't tell who is who. I feel that the B version is a "little bit" darker, so I guess that's the hardware, but it's too much speculative...

[jdtrbn]

Clip A sounds closer to what I remember hearing from that plug-in. Can't say which is better without a context.

[CaptainHook]

It is very hard without context/reference and mostly a waste of time to be
honest, but at the same time a bit of fun.

[Dubai]

they sound very different...

the A has tight upped bass, lots of mids, and short/fast release.
the B has less louder bass but lower/heavy, less mids, and longer release, different attack also.
B sounds less upfront, but sounds more real, more natural.
the dry sounds like crap.
but...
can you do the others real TG? same settings
what converters were used?
can you do a dry with converters only?

[steveschizoid]

I am not sure I would say they are "very" different, but A does seem more colored - perhaps because of a shorter release? I like the effect I might add, and to take a guess, I'd say A is the hardware. B seems a little cleaner with the transients left more or less intact.

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

I ran a simple mono drum loop through our hardware TG12413 at work and
tried to match by ear the settings on the Abbey Road plugin.
]

?

They actually don't sound alike at all. I would be more curious to see which sounded better(or how similar) at the same settings. Doesn't that seem a more obvious test?

All that said, A is probably the plug...

[CaptainHook]

Originally Posted by RaySoul

?

They actually don't sound alike at all. I would be more curious to see which sounded better(or how similar) at the same settings. Doesn't that seem a more obvious test?

That's what i initially did. Matched the panel settings. But it sounded too
different, so i decided to try see if i could match it closer. Which i could.
I could also match it even further if i did something else but i don't
want to say until after the reveal so i don't sway things. :P

Thanks for you comments though.

[Nahuel]

At first both sounded very close but after several listenings I'd say that A is software (sound cleaner and less compressed) and B is hardware (transient are more compressed and there's some sort of "dirty" overall feel).

[CaptainHook]

So here is the answer;

A is the Abbey Road Plugin (1969) and B is the hardware!

The drum loop is as shown in the photo, an AEA R84 ribbon microphone place above the kit in our live room here at York St, through the Neve and Apogee AD-16X in PTHD 7.4.

I first planned to setup both hardware and plugin with identical panel settings, but it turned out once i got into it i couldn't do that. My first mistake was recording the TG first and with the hold set right at the "+" symbol like the hardware photo shows. I didn't realize that the plugin wouldn't be able to match how much compression the hardware did at this setting, even with hold turned up as far as possible in the plug! (show in the plugin screenshot). I could have gone back and lowered the hardware setting, but laziness won on the day. I only have so much time for this geek shit.

I could have added a gain plug in PT before the TG plug to drive the input higher, or even used the 2005 version of the plug that has an input control but i felt that didn't truly reflect what my impression of the 1969 plug would be if i didn't have the hardware to reference to. I would have played with the hold and release and thought "okay, this is what the plug can do". So it's actually possible to get the files even closer sounding if you match the gain staging.

It was an interesting test, but mostly just a bit of fun. I think they've done a great job with the plugin and wouldn't hesitate to use it, but i have to add the caveat that i'm never convinced of ANYTHING by listening to things in isolation like this. How they hold up in a mix is the only thing that matters, and of course the context of the song/arrangement is paramount.

Overall i found the hardware to be smoother on the attack and release. It also seemed a bit thicker in the bottom too. And of course the hardware was compressing more that the plug. The plugin had what i call "sticky" attack on the snare which i'm not a huge fan of, but it's all personal preference.

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts!

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

So here is the answer;

A is the Abbey Road Plugin (1969) and B is the hardware!

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

I'd say A is the hardware. B seems a little cleaner with the transients left more or less intact.

I love the golden ear wannabe's with the

They actually don't sound alike at all

type comments, who then can't actually identify the hardware. I think that someone who has access to hardware TG12413's at work probably has better ears than twits who like to pretend they can hear better than the rest of us. Or maybe I'm just happy that my ears still work at all.

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

So here is the answer;

A is the Abbey Road Plugin (1969) and B is the hardware!

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

I love the golden ear wannabe's with the "They actually don't sound alike at all" type comments, who then can't actually identify the hardware.(?) I think that someone who has access to hardware TG12413's at work probably has better ears than twits who like to pretend they can hear better than the rest of us. Or maybe I'm just happy that my ears still work at all.

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

I'd say A is the hardware. B seems a little cleaner with the transients left more or less intact.

Originally Posted by RaySoul

?
They actually don't sound alike at all...

All that said, A is probably the plug...

Since you quoted me, I really hope your "golden ear wannabe's" and "twits" remarks were not directed at me, the guy who identified the plug and obviously can hear better than you. In fact, you are the only person in the WHOLE thread who would endeavor to identify, and failed. Maybe your ears don't work anymore after all.

By the way, the reason I could identify the plug was because, THEY ACTUALLY DON'T SOUND ALIKE AT ALL.

Welcome to Gearslutz. Inconceivable...

[steveschizoid]

Wow, my bad! I guess up is down in my world today. I'm pretty sleep deprived.

The fact that I quoted myself as being dead wrong, gleefully gloating in my correctness might be a clue.

I still don't see how anyone can state that the two files don't sound anything alike - I did hear the difference, and I did prefer the sound of the plug-in evidently. (I kind of wonder if I got them mixed up in my original reply - I liked the one that sounded a bit thicker with the more obvious limiting with the blunted snare transients) But the two files didn't strike me as radically different.

I probably deserve any disdain you have directed my way, and I apologize for my comment. I was more or less reacting to the sort of post that implicitly elevates its author above the rest of us. (and ironically, you've managed to bust me as guilty of the same)

edit:
I just went back and listened again, and, although I wouldn't expect you to believe it, I do believe I got them mixed up in my original post because they are pretty much reversed as to how I remember them. At any rate, this should teach me to remember my manners.

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

I was more or less reacting to the sort of post that implicitly elevates its author above the rest of us.

Boy. Now, was this what they call a back-handed apology? This sounds like a personal issue to me. And that rope is getting shorter and shorter. Maybe the reason the files don't sound alike to me is because they don't sound alike to me. I don't see how that implies any such thing. I mean, you don't know anything about me, do you. This IS an internet forum. I could be anybody. Perhaps a multi-platinum engineer/producer/songwriter. Perhaps even a guy with, how did you say, Golden Ears. See sig.

P.S. - I happen to have the plug and preferred the richer, warmer sound of the hardware...

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

...it's actually possible to get the files even closer sounding if you match the gain staging.

And I recognize that. Though in your examples, for my purposes, they were radically different.

But, save for superfluous interjection, good/fun little test. thumbsup

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by RaySoul

Now, was this what they call a back-handed apology?......P.S. - I happen to have the plug and preferred the richer, warmer sound of the hardware...

I apologized. What else do you want?

And, as I said, in my state of sleep deprived buffonery I believe I reversed the files in my original reply - at any rate, do we not agree on what the differences basically are?

So let's move on. I am curious as to whether or not you can identify the difference between these two files. One is processed through a Fatso, the other through the UAD plug in. The UAD version was sent through a round of DA/AD. I had them set up basically the same, but I had to set the input gain a little differently to get the same amount of compression/warmth. To me, the difference is pretty subtle; what do you think?

The mp3s are 192 Kbps. I added the wav files for obvious reasons, but the files had to be shortened quite a bit. Pick your compromise.

[fakiekid]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

specs on that kit dude, sounds real nice! What snare is it and what heads were on the kick?

IMO they sound completely different with A being more splatty. B seems to beef it all up and bring out the kick.

[KarmaPolice]

I also think the settings are very different. Clip A seems to have a slower attack letting the initial bit of the snare pass. Makes it sound more upfront.

Both sound very good imo. I´d prefer A but in a mix context I might prefer B.

I own the Plug In and like it a lot.

[CaptainHook]

Originally Posted by fakiekid

specs on that kit dude, sounds real nice! What snare is it and what heads were on the kick?

The only thing i know about it, is that it's a Gretsch USA Custom. We have
2 snares with it that are part of the series and look the same as the rest
of the kit. Both are 14", but one is deeper than the other. I forget the
measurements, but we used the deeper one for this because it had
a new head on it. (coated ambassador)

I'm not sure of the kick head, i'll look today when i get to work (if i remember :P ).
Pretty sure it's been on there since i started working here.

Originally Posted by KarmaPolice

I also think the settings are very different. Clip A seems to have a slower attack letting the initial bit of the snare pass. Makes it sound more upfront.

My thoughts too. I'm unaware of anyway to change the attack on either the plug or
hardware unless the hold control is tied into it, so it may just be inherent differences..?

[fakiekid]

Originally Posted by CaptainHook

The only thing i know about it, is that it's a Gretsch USA Custom. We have
2 snares with it that are part of the series and look the same as the rest
of the kit. Both are 14", but one is deeper than the other. I forget the
measurements, but we used the deeper one for this because it had
a new head on it. (coated ambassador)

I'm not sure of the kick head, i'll look today when i get to work (if i remember :P ).
Pretty sure it's been on there since i started working here.

thanks man, appreciate it.

[mdjice]

wow...I like A better !!

[CaptainHook]

Originally Posted by fakiekid

thanks man, appreciate it.

Kick is Weatherking Powerstroke 3 bass on beater side. Other is just the
factory skin by looking at. :P

[BigJunk]

here is what I've learned from this thread. The plugin doesn't sound like the hardware.

Junk

[bee]

Originally Posted by BigJunk

here is what I've learned from this thread. The plugin doesn't sound like the hardware.

Junk

Yeah, but the EMI TG 12413 plugin doesn't sound bad.

[yerusalan]

Haha this was so obvious, imo. HW almost always (but not always as I can see in some other cases) sounds softer and sw just like in this example - more plastic with this artificial responce and obvious mid-range jump.

[HomeProducer]

Originally Posted by yerusalan

Haha this was so obvious, imo. HW almost always (but not always as I can see in some other cases) sounds softer and sw just like in this example - more plastic with this artificial responce and obvious mid-range jump.

You clearly hear in A that the attack sounds more aggressive, whereas the attack sounds beautiful on B, not harsh, no clicks. I think that all compressor plugins from Abbey Road more or less suck. They are far not as musical as something like The Glue.

[HomeProducer]

the plugin takes away the low end and makes everything sounding aggressive.

does noboby else have this experience?

[ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

And, as I said, in my state of sleep deprived buffonery I believe I reversed the files in my original reply

Yea, that's the ticket.
I knew which was which, I just reversed my answer, so I was right all along after all.

Old thread, but a classic.