JJ Audio V67 Mod Vs Neuman U87

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

I know there is a lot of love here with the MXL V67. It has a nice low end and the highs from the K67 type capsule have been rolled off to balance the frequency response.

One of the reasons this mic sounds so good is that MXL used the Nuemann NFB filtering system from the U87.
They changed the Fet to a 2SK170Bl and added a 2sa1015 to drive the transformer. The front end of this circuit is a U87 copy.

I condutcted extensive tests changing out capacitors and the 2sa1015 and documenting each step to find the best sound for this mic. I changed the Fet to one that Neumann used in their U87.

Each step was an improvement however I wanted in the end for this mic to sound as much like the U87 as possible. So decided to go for a full blown conversion.

I removed the 2sa1015 and changed the circuit to the original Neumann design. I replaced the Fet with a high gain Fet that I use to mod U87s.

The end result is very good. I have here two samples, recorded at the same time. I tried to match volume as close as possible. The V67 came very close in sound to the U87.

I am posting a poll to see if you can find the U87!!

I will tell you the results in a couple of days

Best,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

[cyjanopan]

how much for a complete mod ?

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

how much for a complete mod ?

The V67 mod is now updated on my web site. The mod takes one day to complete and three days to burn in and test. I was impressed with the sound that I got out of the stock capsule.

I use Wima caps for the film caps, Vishay for the electrolytic and Polystyrene capacitors.

Link to mod:

Custom Microphones and Mods


Best,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio

[illacov]

I know which is which

To add fuel to the fire:

Adding a reskinned Neumann K67 to this mic transforms it into an entirely different beast!

However, I like the fact that for the price of a preamp you can have a pair of V67s converted to sound this awesome!

Peace
Illumination

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Here are some pics of the mics.

Also 10% off for GS members.

Best,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
http://jjaudiomic.com/Mods-for-Fet-Microphones.php

[Dubai]

i like more A becouse its warmer,

the B is more transparent, but... harsh.

i guess A its the neumann
B its the MXL

still nothing like nu47 bruce swedien No.1

[prkm123]

Hi,

Listening on headphones (DT150's) sample B sounds slightly louder and also the mic is picking up more low end rumble.
I voted for A as the Neumann because to me, sample A sounds cleaner.

[guitarsfrommars]

Yowza!

I can't tell the difference...

Does that make me deaf or a connoisseur?

Amazing and useful product.

[Audio Hombre]

even listening from my phone, A sounds more like the 87.

[pasarski]

They sound very different to me, both good. A is the U87?

[MarkyGoldstein]

I think they sound very similar, B is a bit less loud in the middle of the recording.

[espfb200]

Ima hafta gowith A.

[drBill]

Couple of questions before I listen -

Is the 87 Stock or has it been "improved"?
Is it an AI or the older version with the battery compartment?

Thx.

bp

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Originally Posted by drBill

Couple of questions before I listen -

Is the 87 Stock or has it been "improved"?
Is it an AI or the older version with the battery compartment?

Thx.

bp

Hi Bill,

The vintage U87 is a purple badge with a battery compartment. I serviced the mic and replaced the tantalum caps. The Fet was replaced and re-biased. The stock circuit is in tact and all the components are stock values.

Best,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

[guitarsfrommars]

I listened with fresh ears this morning.

I still can't hear the difference.

This is good.

[baslotto]

Originally Posted by guitarsfrommars

I listened with fresh ears this morning.

I still can't hear the difference.

This is good.

Very fresh ears did you go to a concert last night?

[trubac]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

even listening from my phone, A sounds more like the 87.

I'm listening from the toilets (with some music playing and water leaks), with a helmet on and I can surely say that the A is the U87 ....



No seriously the B has got more lows and highs, the A is more focused ...
both are nice ! great matching JJ !

[illacov]

So far based on poll results, I'll ask a few questions.

If the brighter mic is the Neumann, would that suprise you?

If the darker mic is the V67G mod, would that suprise you?

And vice versa?

How different are the results?? Would you have to do much to get the A sample to sound like the B?? And vice versa??

Has anyone messed around these clips in their DAW??

Smash them with compression, its EYE opening. Both are examples of excellent microphones, regardless of what you think of their name or branding. Contrast what you hear in these samples to mics that come out of China for big bucks like the $%$^$ for 600 bucks or the %$^$&# for 900 bucks.

Consider this with your wallet:

One of these results will cost you in upwards of 2200 dollars on ebay and one will cost you around 400 if you score a used V67G.

Needless to say:

I want a matched pair! (I love the cop smiley!!)

And yes I work at JJ Audio Mics. I use Jim's mics, along with alot of other brands (oktava, AT, Shure, CAD etc..) daily.

I'm on the fence if I want mine battleship grey or some crazy color like bright orange!!

Peace
Illumination

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

[QUOTE=trubac;5016810

I'm listening from the toilets (with some music playing and water leaks), with a helmet on and I can surely say that the A is the U87 ....



No seriously the B has got more lows and highs, the A is more focused ...
both are nice ! great matching JJ ![/QUOTE]


Trubac,

The V67 mod comes with rubber boots and life vest for those in need of protection in tight places!!

Thanks for the kind words. I am very pleased with the results from a mic that can be had for about $100 street value. I am continuing to tweek this mod and will post this afternoon some results.

This is a complex mod that involves re-routing the circuit adding and deleting components for the conversion. I do not just change out capacitors and call it a day.

To get this mod in your hands I have a speical offer here:

JJ Audio Mics - Workshop Diary: JJ Audio Mics V67 -> U87 Mod (Super Discount!)

Best
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

[Michael_Joly]

Welcome to the party!

[Piedpiper]

Nice work. And thanks for the direct comparison. As expected, A is the 87. The modded MXL is indeed brighter, harsher and boomier, still a great deal. Your link gave it away, not by the order of the tracks but by the sound.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

Nice work. And thanks for the direct comparison. As expected, A is the 87. The modded MXL is indeed brighter, harsher and boomier, still a great deal. Your link gave it away, not by the order of the tracks but by the sound.

What necessarily do you personally consider harsh about it?

Its a valid question I feel, considering that the sound of this U87 that we used completely throws people who never heard a Purple Badge U87 before.

I can attest to throwing both these files up in my DAW and hitting them with a compressor doing something silly like 6 to 10 db of gain reduction and they were both usable vocals, I didn't wish for a de esser.

We also have an additional tweak (at no extra cost) which can make the modded mic darker with the stock capsule.

I actually have figured that I want one with the standard mod and one with the darker mod.

Personally when I think harsh, the stock MXL V67G and the stock MXL 990 come to mind.

Thanks

Peace
Illumination

[trubac]

Made a little animated gif of the response of the 2 A,B files.

Clic on it !

[trubac]

The only thing that I really don't like is the golden grill ...
It is so horrible ! Might be good fo Eastern Gipsy Rappers ...

I'm convinced that good/pro looking gear got an impact on the performance ...

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Originally Posted by trubac

Made a little animated gif of the response of the 2 A,B files.

Clic on it !

Thanks guys for the warm welcome and the kind reviews.

Trubac,

The chart confirms what I was hearing in the low end. I cut some of the low end and was able to get a closer sound to the original U87. I also added some NFB that got rid some of the harshness and increased clairty. I will be fine tuing the circuit to work better with the stock capsule.

The second sound examples with the Neumann capsule in the V67 is very close. I will be testing capsules in this circuit to find one that sounds more refined.

What program are you using to generate the charts? Very cool.

Best
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Originally Posted by trubac

The only thing that I really don't like is the golden grill ...
It is so horrible ! Might be good fo Eastern Gipsy Rappers ...

I'm convinced that good/pro looking gear got an impact on the performance ...

The mic can be painted and a diffrernt grill installed.
This is a picture of the Doberman, one of our tube mics that uses the V67g body and has a 5703 submini tube in it. I changed the gold grill to brass.

You are right about performances, if the mic looks good the singer will respoond. I set up a Blonde Dutch (cream painted C12 /Apex 460) for a singer and he liked the look so much his take was truley inspired. It does make a difference.

Best
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

[Piedpiper]

Originally Posted by illacov

What necessarily do you personally consider harsh about it?

Its a valid question I feel, considering that the sound of this U87 that we used completely throws people who never heard a Purple Badge U87 before.

I can attest to throwing both these files up in my DAW and hitting them with a compressor doing something silly like 6 to 10 db of gain reduction and they were both usable vocals, I didn't wish for a de esser.

We also have an additional tweak (at no extra cost) which can make the modded mic darker with the stock capsule.

I actually have figured that I want one with the standard mod and one with the darker mod.

Personally when I think harsh, the stock MXL V67G and the stock MXL 990 come to mind.

Thanks

Peace
Illumination

Agreed totally.

I've already gone through being surprised at how nice and smooth an old 87 can sound after having been put off by the thick harshness of more modern ones in comparison. I also am very sensitive to subtle harshness in the high frequencies. It is probably my main pet peeve. I also understand that some folks like a bit of aggressive top end. Not me. Of course, this kind of thing is very source dependent, as we know. And artistic license can be served by all kinds of strange effects in a particular context. In this comparison, the real 87 is "significantly" smoother as well as being cleaner on the bottom end. For some this may be even too subtle to hear, as one poster above noted. For me, it is important. I would suspect this to be about the capsule rather than the mod per se, as Jim seems to be alluding to. You might consider posting a three way shoot out and include an unmodified mic as well, to really point out what is undoubtedly a wonderful value; or even a four way shoot out and include one with a Neumann capsule as well.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

Agreed totally.

I've already gone through being surprised at how nice and smooth an old 87 can sound after having been put off by the thick harshness of more modern ones in comparison. I also am very sensitive to subtle harshness in the high frequencies. It is probably my main pet peeve. I also understand that some folks like a bit of aggressive top end. Not me. Of course, this kind of thing is very source dependent, as we know. And artistic license can be served by all kinds of strange effects in a particular context. In this comparison, the real 87 is "significantly" smoother as well as being cleaner on the bottom end. For some this may be even too subtle to hear, as one poster above noted. For me, it is important. I would suspect this to be about the capsule rather than the mod per se, as Jim seems to be alluding to. You might consider posting a three way shoot out and include an unmodified mic as well, to really point out what is undoubtedly a wonderful value; or even a four way shoot out and include one with a Neumann capsule as well.

Thanks for your kind words!

I have a suspicion that the capsule indeed is the culprit when it comes to the edge on the high end. The small change to the filtering on the already kick ass mod tames the high end even further. I've had people describe the Neumann as dull in contrast to the modded V67, which is intriguing.

The Neumann capsule does have a special magic to it indeed though!

We do have another capsule I wish to test out, the JJ67 which has a sculpted top end which does not require as much or usually any filtering to sound appropriate. Its the same capsule used in the Doberman. I think that would be awesome if we could add that capsule as an upgrade to the mod for those seeking an old school sound but for very little money.

I think this mod is screaming good overall when you consider that the V67 is one of the most discussed and (already possessed) mics around from MXL. I like looking at the gearlists of recording studios and I see this mic in one out of every 4 studios as a part of the gearlist.

If you own a V67G and its collecting dust, this is the ticket and then some!

I'm pretty sure if you put this into a preamp like the stock/modded GAP73 it would sound kick ass for sure!

I think if you were to use a hifi sound mic preamp you may want to ask for the darker circuit.

For the guy seeking as close as possible to the real thing though, the reskinned Neumann on ebay for 400 bucks, plus the mod ($300) and the mic ($81/$0) are a SCREAMING good deal. Whens the last time you could buy a pair of anything close to a U87 for under $1500??

Peace
Illumination

[trubac]

Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat

What program are you using to generate the charts? Very cool.

Blue Cats Analyst ... free !

[Piedpiper]

Originally Posted by illacov

Thanks for your kind words!

I have a suspicion that the capsule indeed is the culprit when it comes to the edge on the high end. The small change to the filtering on the already kick ass mod tames the high end even further. I've had people describe the Neumann as dull in contrast to the modded V67, which is intriguing.

The Neumann capsule does have a special magic to it indeed though!

We do have another capsule I wish to test out, the JJ67 which has a sculpted top end which does not require as much or usually any filtering to sound appropriate. Its the same capsule used in the Doberman. I think that would be awesome if we could add that capsule as an upgrade to the mod for those seeking an old school sound but for very little money.

I think this mod is screaming good overall when you consider that the V67 is one of the most discussed and (already possessed) mics around from MXL. I like looking at the gearlists of recording studios and I see this mic in one out of every 4 studios as a part of the gearlist.

If you own a V67G and its collecting dust, this is the ticket and then some!

I'm pretty sure if you put this into a preamp like the stock/modded GAP73 it would sound kick ass for sure!

I think if you were to use a hifi sound mic preamp you may want to ask for the darker circuit.

For the guy seeking as close as possible to the real thing though, the reskinned Neumann on ebay for 400 bucks, plus the mod ($300) and the mic ($81/$0) are a SCREAMING good deal. Whens the last time you could buy a pair of anything close to a U87 for under $1500??

Peace
Illumination

You're welcome. And I don't think there's any question as to the value.

My own ideal preference for the old school Neumann sound is the M49 where no compensation circuit is required and the detail is all natural. The 87 (and even the 67) always seemed like a compromise, albeit, for a lot less money than a 49 or 47.