***Mic-Mod Madness!!!***

[drBill]

Mic-Mod Madness

The purpose of this shootout??? To compare some inexpensive mics that have been given preferential treatment, some hand-holding, and some electronic and capsule mods to the classics that we all know and love. Mics ranging in value from $110US to over $11,100US. A very diverse mix to say the least. Mostly I was looking at mics that have a K47-ish type delivery for a client that fights "sssshhhhhyyyness"" with cheaper mics. I hope you have time to sit back and enjoy the ride!!

The Classics:
Neumann U87
Microtech Gefell M71S (Cardiod only version of a UM70) - Older Transformer equipped version
Neumann U47 (MODIFIED)
Neumann M49

The Contenders:
Michael Joly modded Apex460 (Electronics mods, Headbasket mods, MJ K47-ish capsule)
Michael Joly modded Oktava 319 (Electronics mods, Headbasket mods)
Michael Joly modded CAD GXL3000 (Electronics mods, Headbasket mods, MJ K47-ish capsule)
TNC1200(Apex460-Avant CV12 - STOCK)
M-Audio Sputnik (STOCK)





This shootout started somewhere in the back of my mind a couple years ago, only to be run over and pushed back by commitments, sessions, motorcycles and life. Recently, however, Michael Joly asked me if I'd like to try out one of his MJE-K47 equipped mics. And it just so happened that I had a client that was having trouble with overly sibilant vocals on his current album. And so, with a simple email, shootouts were back in the forefront of my mind. A simple two mic comparison quickly cascaded into a nine mic shootout at the proverbial "OK Corral" (in this case in the CRM at my studio - Mindseye). How could any gearslut in good conscience say no.......

This is not the first time I've undertaken mic shootouts, and without exception, they always provide some frustration, controversy, hard work, and a lot of fun. This shootout was no exception, and I'll comment on some of the frustration, and illuminate some areas of controversy below.


But first, let me point you back to a couple other shootouts I've done. Some of you may have checked them out in the past, and they will give you a good idea of how I approach things :


Ribbon Madness....Some Comparisons

Drum Mic Madness!!!!



Mic shootouts are hard. Picking the mics is hard. Defining the test parameters is hard. Finding the time is hard. You know, an all around joyous PITA.



Anyway, as I said, this test would be no different, and it was to entail putting up some of the premiere "lower end" modded up to "mid end" modern mics against some legendary classic heavyweights of old. The very concept being sacrilegious to many, but intriguing to me.



Our mic modder in this case - Michael Joly - is a "modern version of the classics" kind of guy, and to his credit, he told me to put the modded contenders up against the best of the best, and if I didn't have the best on hand, to beg, to borrow or steal them!!! His mics focus more on meat and potato's than hype and bling and the MKE-K47 capsule he has developed is focused towards midrange detail. Although the MJE-K47 tips it's hat toward the venerable classics - the K47 found in M49 and U47 mics, it has a sound of it's own as you will see/hear. Michael's wares tend to be geared to the working engineer who needs tools, not bragging rights, and are directed towards upgrading products that you may not be using that are already in your locker.

Anyway, as things progressed, this test took on two similar, yet different paths :

1.) A comparison of FET mics, and
2.) A parallel path with a comparison of Tube mics

The FET mics for this experiment included the Neumann U87, the Microtech Gefell M71S (aka UM70 Cardiod only capsule), the Joly/CAD GXL3000, and the Joly/Oktavamod 319 PE.

The Tube mics included a MODIFIED Neumann U47, a Neumann M49, an M-Audio Sputnik, a MJE-K47 equipped Apex 460 (perhaps one of the most modded mics in history), and a stock TnC1200 (same as the Apex460/Avant CV12/et al). Quite a price deferential. From a $110 Chinese knock off, to a couple of $10K-12K classics. Quite the price spread!!

Usually mic shootouts are kind of like herding cattle. You point them in the direction you want to go, but they have a mind of their own, and you end up playing catch-up and chasing down strays. This roundup wasn't too bad, but it definitely caught me off-guard a few times, and left me wishing that there was some way that was better than the way I chose.

Let me say before anyone comments on the "methodology" I prescribed to, that the only way to REALLY "shoot out" mics is to LIVE with them over the period of a project. Then, you have a fighting chance to choose the best candidate for your locker. Unfortunately, I didn't have weeks, so you're going to have to live with what I came up with.

(more to come - with clips & pics!)

[drBill]

The methodology chosen :

a.) A fun little "specialty song" was written for gearslutz everywhere that was simple, short, fun and REALLY accentuated "SSSsssshyy" lyrics.
b.) Pathway : Mic > Mogami Cable > D&R OrionX Pre (console) > Console Bussing > Digi 192 A/D > 24b/44.1k. Don't like the path? Sorry. This was about finding a mic for my client - not conducting some non-real-world experiment with AAA gear in a controlled laboratory.
c.) All mics recorded simultaneously via separate pre-amps. In this case, the very transparent non-transformer pre's in my D&R OrionX. No iron in the path to confuse issues. I was looking for the real character of the mic itself without any "outside help". Certainly some of these mics would have benefited from some iron in the path, but that was not what I was searching for.
d.) The vocalist was back about 12" from the FET's to try to even out the sweet spot, but I caught him pushing into the Tube mics. Probably 8" off the tubes. You can hear it. There was a nylon pop filter between lips and head-baskets.
e.) Due to the complexity of having so many mics (9) in the "sweet" spot, it was determined that we would make TWO passes - ONE on the FET mics, and ONE on the Tube mics. (This became somewhat of a problem, but a conundrum we could not avoid. The vocalist is not a "session" singer that can turn out zerox after zerox like performances all day long - and so, the two passes between FET and TUBES are a bit different.)
f.) The FET's were placed in a "cross" pattern. The Tube mics made the "sweet" spot a bit more problematic - due to some large head-baskets - and were in a 5 ringed "star" pattern. (See pics.)
g.) Effort was made to keep both passes similar, but due to schedules, time and rental constraints, we failed. At least to a degree. Some artists can barely sing the same notes twice. This was not the case here, but you can easily hear how the vocalist dug into the tube mics and worked the "tubes" more than he did the FET's. Sorry, I can't' help it, but for those who want to explore with an open mind, there's still gold to be found.

For a more "fair" test, you can think of it as 2 seperate, yet similar tests and listen to the FET's and Tubes seperately if you like.


The performance(s) :

I wish we had two identical performances, but we don't. I wish our vocalist had 5 brains in 5 heads with 5 sets of ears and 5 mouths so that he could work each mic separately the way each individual mic would have preferred to be worked in a real world situation, but alas, all 5 headed aliens were booked for the day.

And for me, that's where the art of "analyzing" the performance(s) and discerning the differences in mics takes place. That's where the art of engineering comes into play. That's where experience pays off dividends.

For those that want to take the easy way and jump to an immediate conclusion, you will find that easy to do. And that's totally legit. But you may not be realizing the true potential of certain mics. (Even the classics.) For those that want to dig in and live with the takes a little, it may take you awhile, but you will come closer to realizing the TRUE differences between these mics. Every mic reacts differently to a singer, and the singer reacts back in kind, working the mic, pushing in, pulling back, hitting it harder, pushing air, constricting, etc. to gain their "performance" from an instrument that they can only hold with a column of air coming out of their cords.

Although the performances between FET and Tubes have been tweaked to RMS gain match as much as possible without making a career out of it, the different performances between the FET's and Tubes becomes apparent as you listen, and that 4 inches in proximity and some inevitable head movement is certainly audible. And still, although back a few inches, the FET's rock!!.

Unfortunately, although performances in each group of mics are the same, the vocalist really only "worked" one mic. Bear with me here, because it will impact every "mic shootout" you hear from here on out........

The singer, Mark, did not know which mic he was singing into. I tried to get him to do something he wouldn't normally do in a performance - equalize his off axis, proximity, and delivery to a central sweet spot in the middle of a gaggle of mics, without working the mic in question. That leaves 3 or 4 mics that are not being "monitored" at a disadvantage. IMO a serious disadvantage, because mics are an instrument that needs to be "played" during a performance. Of course getting all this perfect and taking the advantage away from the mic being monitored was close to impossible, because vocal air, the mic, the monitoring and delivery all inter-react with each other. Frustrating in a "scientific" shootout. Glorious in a performance. AAaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!!!!

Oh well, we have what we have.

So, to reiterate, Mark - our featured vocalist - only heard ONE mic and worked THAT particular mic. The other mics were victims of loneliness as they were recorded "blind" for all intents and purposes, without the vocalist being able to sing to their strengths and react accordingly. Doing this any other way would have added the variable of different performances for each mic, which IMO is a greater problem that the one we have.

Hope that makes sense. If you ponder it for awhile, you will realize why it is impossible to really do a credible scientific "shootout". In the end, it all comes back to your "gut" feeling.

There is no perfect method. There is no perfect shootout.

And yet, here we are.... OK.....

The presentation :

Again, 24 bit-44.1k WAV files. The vocal mics in the first set of files vocal will be sitting "in the mix" with moderate compression (CT4) and a dash of verb (PCM96 vocal plate) to approximate a "real world" application. The second batch of files are "acapella" versions with no compression, verb or other instruments - naked in all their glory. Please excuse the ambient noise. I cut these in the CRM and there are computers and HVAC humming happily away in the background. Feel free to download the files and import into your DAW. That's the best method.

If you download the files and import into your DAW, (THE PREFERRED METHOD) they will all line up perfectly so you can line them up, cut in between, and switch back and forth in sync with ease.

Like my other shootouts, I will divulge which mic is which after everybody gets a chance to comment without bias or prejudice.

Makes life and doing these things just a little more fun....

Let's hear your thoughts!!!!!

[drBill]

Here are the first batch of clips with the vocal imbedded into the track :

(for best results, feel free to download and import into your DAW)

FET1-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod.../FET1-Song.wav
FET2-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod.../FET2-Song.wav
FET3-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod.../FET3-Song.wav
FET4-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod.../FET4-Song.wav
---
TUBE1-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...Tube1-Song.wav
TUBE2-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...Tube2-Song.wav
TUBE3-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...Tube3-Song.wav
TUBE4-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...Tube4-Song.wav
TUBE5-Song
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...Tube5-Song.wav


Next up, the Acapella tracks - no EQ, no Verb, No processing of any kind :


FET1-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...1-Acapella.wav
FET2-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...2-Acapella.wav
FET3-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...3-Acapella.wav
FET4-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...4-Acapella.wav
---
TUBE1-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...1-Acapella.wav
TUBE2-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...2-Acapella.wav
TUBE3-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...3-Acapella.wav
TUBE4-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...4-Acapella.wav
TUBE5-Acapella
http://www.mindseyeprod.com/wpmicmod...5-Acapella.wav




Results in post #211. Top of page 8. But do your listening first,,,,,,,,,tutttutt




**** A special shout-out and THANKS to Michael Joly of Oktavamod for use of all his cool mics (OktavaMod - Affordable Boutique Microphones and Bryan and Peter at Platinum Audio Rentals for the WONDERFUL U47 and M49!!! (Platinum Audio Rentals). ****

And Mark and Julia, thanks for singing!!!! I hope you enjoyed it!



Vote for your favorite tube mic in the Mic Mod Madness thread. And - What is your favorite FET mic -- The perfect solution for those who'd rather cast a vote than sit down and type (), just click on the preceding link to vote. You can also see the results there as well.



I'll post some pics and weigh in with some more thoughts in a few days as time permits.

Enjoy!

bp


Woohoooooo!!!! Let the games begin. Can't wait to hear your guesses and comments!

[drBill]

[space2012]

making a quick listen... i like tube4&tube3
dont like any fet.
must be the D&R OrionX mic-pres.

[Brad McGowan]

I just quickly listened to the a capella clips. My first impression is that FET1, Tube2, and Tube 4 stand out to me. I'm going to guess that Tube2 is the modified U47.

I'm going to listen to everything in context more and post more thoughts later.

Thanks so much for doing this!

Brad

[Teddy Ray]

awesome post Dr. B..

gonna listen later on

[drBill]

Originally Posted by space2012

making a quick listen... i like

Thanks for your thoughts 2012!

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I'm going to listen to everything in context more and post more thoughts later.

Thanks so much for doing this!

Brad

Brad, glad you made it! We're going to have some fun here!!!

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

awesome post Dr. B..

gonna listen later on

Teddy, good to see you. I expect you to pick the Gefell, OK??? Even if it's NOT your favorite......


I've got sessions tomorrow AM and into the afternoon guys, but I'll check back in late afternoon or evening.

bp

[MadGuitrst]

Thanks Dr. Bill!!!!
You are spot on about the performances.....the best way audition mics, IMHO, is to work each for it's sweat spot(s).

But since.......

I wish our vocalist had 5 brains in 5 heads with 5 sets of ears and 5 mouths so that he could work each mic separately the way each individual mic would have preferred to be worked in a real world situation, but alas, all 5 headed aliens were booked for the day.

A Ha ha ha ha ha......they were at my place auditioning mics for me. I'll send them over when they finish.

I'm downloading the tube wavs now, already listened to the SS.
Since I'm not shy, listening on my trusty beat up old Sony MDR-7506 from the laptop, here are my guesses for now........

#1 Neumann U87
#2 no sibilance, clean but warm - Michael Joly modded Oktava 319.
#3 sizzly when pushed - Michael Joly modded CAD GXL3000 (although I've never heard the mic)
#4 Microtech Gefell M71S/UM70 - similar to #1 but a bit cleaner/leaner.

What do I win for round one?

Okay....waiting for the last tube .wav.....

[geareyes]

Took a listen to the acapella clips briefly on shit house computer phones.

Tube #3 = M49

Tube #5 = U47

[MadGuitrst]

#1 TNC1200(Apex460-Avant CV12 - STOCK)
#2 Michael Joly modded Apex460
#3 Neumann M49
#4 M-Audio Sputnik (STOCK)
#5 Neumann U47

What do I win this time?!?!?!

Well, I'm off to dreamland..........

Thanks again Dr. Bill.

Okay, I changed #4 and 5....I'll describe why in a later post.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

What do I win for round one?

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

What do I win this time?!?!?!

You'll have to wait awhile, but if you win, you'll get an all expenses paid weekend date with the 5 headed alien of your choice to beautiful LAS VEGAS!!!!!!

(Just remember, she can play 5 slots simultaneously too.....)

[Chris Lago]

I like Fet 4 the most and I'd say that the tube mic I like the best is Tube 1.

[chribble]

Lets see how totally wrong I am.


fet
1) m71
2) u87
3) oktava mod
4) gxl



tubes
1) sputnik
2) joly mod
3) m49
4) apex stock
5) u47 mod

[chribble]

oh also

great shootout. i only used acapellas.
i liked most of them except tube 4 which i hope isnt the modded 47 like madguitarist thinks :S
for me the winners are fet1 and tube3

on this guy on this day

[Brad McGowan]

It's so great how everyone hears something so different when they listen to these clips and gravitates towards different "features" of the recorded vocal. I personally tend to key into midrange clarity and detail, so the mics that deliver that tend to be the ones I like on any singer for any genre of music.

I found that the full mix clips did nothing for me and that the a capella tracks were more useful in evaluating the sounds of the mics, simply because I didn't feel that the vocals "fit" into the mix on any of them. They sounded a little disconnected in my opinion. Maybe it was the arrangement, maybe it was the preamp, maybe it was the control room ambience, maybe it was the added reverb. Regardless, I preferred to listen to the solo material to hear the nuances of each mic. I didn't feel I was getting any additional information out of the full mixes.

I'll post some guesses soon. It will be just my luck that I'll end up preferring the most expensive mics.

Brad

[drBill]

Hi Everyone!

I see there have been a LOT of views in the last 24 hours!!!! Not too many brave souls willing to hang it out and brave an opinion though.......

Actually, it's pretty understandable, and I was expecting it. I was pretty caught off guard myself when I started listening to the results. The tube mics were especially difficult considering that there was such a WIDE span of competition. From a vintage classic, to a $110 Chinese import, and yet....... Is there $12,000 difference???

For those of you who posted an opinion, THANKS. You're brave souls!! Kudos!!!

For those who haven't, instead of trying to successfully identify which mic is which, I'd rather hear from you what you like about mic X, and why. Or conversely, what you don't like about mic Y, and what you would like to hear differently.

Phrases, SSSssss's, Consonants, Balance, etc. What is it you like that drew you to a mic(s), or what is it that pushed you away.....

That would make for great conversation I think, and then, soon, I'll reveal what is what, but I think it's safe to say that somewhere in the tube shootout is a $110 Chinese Group Buy mic that sounds pretty damn good.....

Cheers,

bp

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I found that the full mix clips did nothing for me and that the a capella tracks were more useful in evaluating the sounds of the mics,

Hey Brad, thanks for that comment. I fought with that.

Without automating each mic/clip individually, I couldn't really pull the vocals down into the track (with it's LACK of arrangement, etc.) as well as I wished and still have them speak where they needed to. I thought that might give too much variance and ultimately be an unfair advantage, and frankly, I didn't want to hear the noise level that I would probably have received when I revealed that mic 1 I pulled back 2 dB and mic 2 I pulled back 3 dB, etc.

Anyway, I'm glad that with the accapella clips it covered it for you.

Still digging 2 and 4 on the tubes???

Want to know what's what??

Get in line.

[mrgrooves666]

I have only checked the FET's so far, because its what I'm interested atm, since I own a mod 319 and have a pair of GXL3000 that I was planning on sending to Michael for modification.
I'm really hoping that 1 and 4 are these. Those two are the ones I liked the most on a quick listen. However, #2 sounds similar to my 319 in a dark way. #3 is bright and trebly, not bad, but 1 are 4 sound smoother to my ears. I'm really hoping this is not the GXL 3000, I would sound like it if it had the original 67 capsule, so I'm hoping this is the U87 perhaps?
The Geffell, I don't have a clue as I have not heard that mic before.

[James Meder]

I'll give my input... I'm just a novice and have not had any experience with any of these mic so I'm stepping out on a limb so to speak

Disclaimer:
*I only tested the acapella parts
*I used MDR-7506 for reference...not the best I know
*Since I don't know the mics, I referenced them against eachother

Fets-
#1
#2 - my fav. I thought it had the most balanced frequency response of the bunch.
#3 - brightest out of the bunch
#4

Overall it was a little hard to distinguish between the fets. Tubes were easier.

Tubes
#1 - my fav. I thought very little sibilance was present
#2 - sounded boxy to me
#3 - bright and could possibly cut nicely through a big mix
#4 - similar to 3...not quite as up front sounding though
#5 - I thought it was a little dull sounding compared to the rest, but in the right situation I think it would shine. Maybe a more striped down songwriter style. Also little sibilance present.

[drBill]

Thanks for the thoughts strange. There are no rights or wrongs. Only opinions and yours are as valid as mine or the next guys. As you can obviously see by the impressions so far, we are all looking for different things when it comes to sound, mics and gear in general. You articulated yourself well and made some good comparisons. Welcome to GS!!!

bp

[drBill]

Originally Posted by mrgrooves666

since I own a mod 319

I will tell you that I was impressed with that mic. I won't tell you which one it was though...... At least not yet,

Originally Posted by mrgrooves666

#3 is bright and trebly, not bad, but 1 are 4 sound smoother to my ears.

#3 is a little bright and occasionally zingy on Mark, but it is absolute glistening butter on his wife. Can I say that Mark?? Fantastic on her. I might try to get some of those clips up later, but I don't have such a scientific listen for the song she did. It would be more an "impression" than a shootout.

bp

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by drBill

I will tell you that I was impressed with that mic. I won't tell you which one it was though...... At least not yet,

Sheesh, didn't you read my post Dr. Bill? It was #2 :D

[mrgrooves666]

Can't wait to know the real deal, shoot I want to be surprised. Could you pm me the FET's, I promise I won't tell... lol

[drBill]

Originally Posted by mrgrooves666

Could you pm me the FET's, I promise I won't tell... lol

Check with Mad Guitarist. He thinks he's got it wired.....

[chribble]

i'm surprised less people have guessed.
they only say what they think about the mics!

fet 1 and tube 3 are bitchin

[geareyes]

drBill,

Do you know what serial number that U47 was?

Mike

[bluemix]

I haven't had the privilege of using most of these mics so I'll stick to favourites based on the recordings. I listened yesterday and today to see if I changed my mind. Yesterday I listened late in the afternoon and today first thing in the morning. Listening on crappy headphones through the laptop at the office both yesterday and today.

FET:
Yesterday: had to choose between #1 & #2 - picked #1 as favourite
Today: #1 hands down
#1 sounds the smoothest and most natural to me in both the mix and acapella versions.

Tube:
Yesterday: I narrowed it down to #4 & #5 and would have picked #5 based on the mixed version.
Today: #4 stood out as the most detailed even though I think #5 sits better in the mixed version - I like the sound and detail of mic #4 the best though.

my .02

I plan on listening again through my A7s to see if I think differently.

Thanks for doing the shootout drBill!

[James Meder]

thanks for the encouragement drBill! Can't wait to find out what mics I liked best

[JDM]

I haven't had the time to listen to these yet, but one thing that would have made these tests better would have been to add the Joly V69 mod. Why? because I am sending that to him next week lol. :D

Anyway, This is a great shootout. I am looking forward to listening to all of these tonight. Good work!