MP3s Posted: SPL MixDream Vs Midas Venice

[Bang]

Here are two high quality 256k MP3s. They are of the same exact mix. Nothing has changed in the mix except that one of the mixes was summed through an SPL mixdream and the other through a Midas Venice 320 zero'd out with the exception of the corresponding mono channels of the mix up around 3db to make up for the difference in panning law.

This is by no means a scientific test. If you don't think MP3s are a good way of comparing audio components, forget this thread and move on. The files are not going to sound exactly the same in terms of level because it is impossible to set the Midas exactly how the SPL was. But I tried and its pretty close. I would pay attention to the overall sound and not how loud the snares are in each mix, as it may vary .5 db or so. Also, the overall levels are a bit different, you may have to attenuate one slightly. Again, its very hard to print the same level of mix with two different mixers, but they are close enough. The 16 bit wavs were converted to MP3 via the LAME encoder which I find to be excellent and very true to the source wav. Enjoy, I'm eager to hear your comments.

www.bangrecording.com/music/TIA.mp3

www.bangrecording.com/music/TIB.mp3

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[jlotto]

bottom is thicker on B

[Ribbonmicguy]

Listening thru my ibook speaker (very soft) the B version is louder (not arguing against your level matching) but B sounds better, tone seems to be more apparent.

I'll try to listen in the studio later today

[RKrizman]

They both rock. I like B better--seems to have more frequency extension, greater clarity, less boxiness, but you know, maybe it's just louder, or a different mix.

Having heard neither, I'm going to say that A is the Midas and B is the Mixdream.

Just to fill out the picture, what was the DAW and what converters did you use?

-R

BTW, if you're interested in getting a more accurate test there are a couple of things you can do. To avoid different panning laws, stem everything out as stereo stems with any panning done in the DAW. Also, send a tone out of each channel pair to the summer and meter its return to the DAW, adjusting your trims accordingly, and you should get really accurate consistency of levels.

[Bang]

In retrospect that would have been a good idea Rick. However, I had no idea till I threw the channels in the Midas that the panning laws were different.

It should be said that B IS a tiny bit louder, but only a margin and while this may cloud your judgement a bit, the two mixes sound different enough (at least to my ears) that volume alone shouldn't make you favor one of them.

I would have loved to have summed through an SSL K for this test as well but I just didn't have one of those hanging around in the studio. Next time.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[RKrizman]

No criticism of your posted examples, just a thought if you do it again sometime.

So without telling us which is which, did you prefer the Midas or the Mixdream? Personally, I preferred whatever B was. How about PMing me which is which? And once again, those are great tracks. Share a few details, eh?

BTW, I'll be getting a Phoenix Nicerizer 16 soon and will be tempted to do the same sort of torture test.

-R

[blaugruen7]

i prefer B
sounds more clear to me.

[TheSweetener]

First thought was: B blows A away, but after having matched the levels, things become more difficult. Anyway B sound first of all wider and more accurate. It also has a little more topend. Perhaps it's only the HiHat being louder.

I expect B to be the Mixdream.
Come on now, which is which?

Nice music by the way!

[TheSweetener]

Ähäm, could you just do another mix of the song ITB?

[krid]

I prefer B too

[RoundBadge]

B sounds bigger , a bit more open

Which is which!? stike

[funka]

B sounds more clear and open to me too...And I gess(hope) B is the SPL.

[GPl]

Let it Be!

[murp]

Another vote for B, although...

I checked the levels of the two mixes and after lowering the level of B by .38dB, the differences were much less apparent. B still sounds wider to my ear, and the bottom end seems a little more extended. As already asked, I'd love to know what converters you were using.

Both mixes kick mucho ass though...

[shapemod]

I like B. Think it's the Midas. Would be cool if B is the SPL but I doubt it.

[Beech]

I'd b happy with B too! Please do tell.

[Andreas G]

A sounds muddier to me
B has more dimension

Andreas

[JonathanAniston]

Great sounding mix...

B was my favourite too.

[Shaman]

A - sounds boxier

B - sounds much better


I dare to say - B is SPL Mixdream

[TheSweetener]

Come on Bang! Reveal it!

Seems to be that all votes go into one direction anyway!

[krid]

Bang, did you use the processing of the Mixdream for this test ?

Lundahl transformers / Stereo expander / Peak limiter ?

[Bang]

Ok first off, the converters used were DA 16Xs. On the SPL, the transformers were ON but no expander or peak limiting.

I did the mix first on the SPL and then on the Midas.

B is the Midas Venice. I've been telling people that this thing is the SHIZNIT for a year and a half now, mixes on it sound better to me then ones I've done on the SSL K which is why I mentioned that above.

A is the Mixdream. Its nice, but didn't quite add the MEAT and FLAVOR that the MIDAS has. I'm really happy about this because I have no clue what I'd do if I had to mix with simply a summing box and a bank of faders.... NO analog eq was used btw, all URS and Sonalksis plugins. I'm glad you like the mixes, some of you may know that this is my own band and its our debut song on our new album. Thanks for commenting, this was cool.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklineock.com

[soundwarrior]

I like b better also. I noticed that it was bigger in the bottom. The guitars had more dimension and sounded smoother to me and less grainy. Also what was real evident to me was the attack on the toms about 1:00 or so into it they sounded real alive to me. A sounded rather dull to me compared to be B. B sounded alive and had more feel more depth and had a wider spread and got me into the music more. Also did you a/b that apogee ad-16x with the lavry?

[el cochino]

Originally Posted by Bang

Ok first off, the converters used were DA 16Xs. On the SPL, the transformers were ON but no expander or peak limiting.

I did the mix first on the SPL and then on the Midas.

B is the Midas Venice. I've been telling people that this thing is the SHIZNIT for a year and a half now, mixes on it sound better to me then ones I've done on the SSL K which is why I mentioned that above.

A is the Mixdream. Its nice, but didn't quite add the MEAT and FLAVOR that the MIDAS has. I'm really happy about this because I have no clue what I'd do if I had to mix with simply a summing box and a bank of faders.... NO analog eq was used btw, all URS and Sonalksis plugins. I'm glad you like the mixes, some of you may know that this is my own band and its our debut song on our new album. Thanks for commenting, this was cool.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklineock.com

Awesome! I'm the proud owner of a Venice 320, as wel,l and preferred mix B, too. As far as I know, you have the external PSU for the Venice - did you notice an improvement of headroom or general difference in sound compared to the internal PSU?

[blaugruen7]

now i would like to hear the nicerizer...

[lclyman]

Hey Steve,
Thanks for these clips...and nice job mixing as well..

I had a feeling that "B" was the Midas as I've followed you growing love affair with that desk...!

Since you've taken the time to demo and in some cases post comparative clips from many of the summing boxes out there (D2B, Sumo, Folcrum, Mixdream, etc.) , what's your overall take on them..?

Larry

[audioez]

I own a lot of fancy gear and whatnot, just like a lot of us here... This one gig I work at has a venice, and it doesn't suprise me that everyone here is picking it hands down...As long as you don't mind 60mm throw faders.

[Andreas G]

YEAH... I knew it... I knew it... that will clarify a lot!
I'm also a dinosaur, working on an unfashy console

Thanks for this thread Bang, that was really cool!!!

Andreas

[Mike Rophone]

cheers for that Steve, I've just sold my D8B a few days ago to go back to good old analog. I was undecided which one of those two mixers I should get ... until now. I wish the Midas wasn't so goddamm ugly but I'll order one this week. Mike

[TheSweetener]

Bang, first of all. Thanks for these clips! Very interesting.

Is it possible that you do an ITB version of the clip?
I mean if everything is done within Pro Tools, it should not be too difficult.

Would be great!