7 Converter Shootout...High End to Low End

[JoeStrange]

Well,
Here we are with 7 Converters. Ranging from some of the most expensive to some of the least expensive.

Here's the converters that were used in this test:

1. Prism Orpheus
2. Apogee DA16x
3. RME Fireface 800
4. Motu Traveler
5. Motu 828MK2
6. M-Audio Profire 2626
7. M-Audio Firewire 410

The music was created inside Logic 8 on a MacBook Pro using some native instruments plugins in an all MIDI sequence.

The signal chain is pure and used all Mogami cable, The sample rate used was 88.2 on all converter's.

The signal chain is as follows:

Logic 8 > "Converter"> Tascam CD-RW901SL

After recording in real time to the cd burner through each converter, The tracks off the cd were then imported into my computer,uploaded and posted here.

You guys tell me which one's you think is what, or which one clearly sounds the best and I will reveal what one is what.

I think I have covered just about everything you would want know about the process used to perform these tests, If you have more questions that I did not address here feel free to ask them!

Remember, This is a conversion quality test only. I did the sequence quickly, So take it easy on me about the music

Enjoy Listening!


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[Audiop]

You used the DA of the converters and the AD of the CD-burner?

In such case it would be more interesting (IMHO) if you could use the AD of each converter to record the output from the DA.

Is any of the files the original?

/Peter

[JoeStrange]

Im not sure if I understand your first question, But maybe this will answer it.

Logic 8 > Converter > Balanced Analog Input of The Tascam CD-RW901SL, So I believe the answer to your first question is yes.

The original? All 7 files are using one of the 7 converters listed. What's the original? Just digital out of a converter to digital in of the CD deck? Then you would hear no conversion at all.


Ohhh I understand what your saying, Thats a good idea peter. I was just more interested in hearing the DA quality of each converter.

[Jamzone]

Originally Posted by Audiop

You used the DA of the converters and the AD of the CD-burner?

In such case it would be more interesting (IMHO) if you could use the AD of each converter to record the output from the DA.

Is any of the files the original?

/Peter

That would be a problem with the DA-16x...

[Jamzone]

Originally Posted by JoeStrange

Im not sure if I understand your first question, But maybe this will answer it.

Logic 8 > Converter > Balanced Analog Input of The Tascam CD-RW901SL.

The original? All 7 files are one of the 7 converters listed. What's the original?

The original would be an internal stereo-bounce in logic... And it will be difficult cause your'e listening as much to the DA as the AD(being the Tascam)...

[JoeStrange]

I Will Post an internal bounce from Logic to compare to (good suggestion).

This is the only way I could think of to hear the "DA" of these converters and compare the differences of them.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by JoeStrange

...native instruments plugins in an all MIDI sequence.
The signal chain is pure and used all Mogami cable,
The sample rate used was 88.2 on all converter's.
The signal chain is as follows:
Logic 8 > "Converter"> Tascam CD-RW901SL

After recording in real time to the cd burner through each converter, The tracks off the cd were then imported into my computer,uploaded and posted here.

#1.
im surpriced about the AD in the Tascam CD-RW901SL .
i though this test would be a waste of time, but i was wrong.
trully top of the line AD.

#2.
--->balanced xlr or unbalanced rca--to-->tascam ?

#3. i like 7, but also 6 and 1. DACs.

#4. nice song, nice mixed.

[JoeStrange]

All the converters ran into the Tascam via Balanced XLR.

Now, Since they all ran through the same AD your still hearing the difference's in conversion quality the same across the board. All 7 converters were affected by the same AD.

I dont see how someone could think this would be a waste of time :/ Which I understand you said it obviously wasent a waste....But so far there has been nothing but scepticism tward the tascam.


Thanks for #4 Space

[drblank]

Was there any external clock used? If so, please explain.

[drblank]

Is it possible to perform the same test but use just someone talking into a microphone rather than synthesized tracks?

i personally find the subtleties of someone talking into a microphone a great way to judge one product from another.

just a suggestion.

thanks!

[JoeStrange]

No external clock used.

Sorry man, I know everyone would have done this test in their own specific way and that's cool but there's just to much time involved in trying to make everyone happy with "the way they would have done it".

This is the way I did it, Take it or leave it.

[Wild Sky]

Good song! Reminiscent of early Depeche Mode..

In this setup, I think that the AD on the tascam is not as good as the better DA that your comparing. The result being that they sound a lot more similar than they should. The AD doesn't clearly "see" the subleties of the better DAs (lowest common denominator and all...)

That being said, I think that the #3 setup compliments your song well, although #6 had something as well... I hope it's the least expensive!!

Les frères Grand - The brothers Grand
MySpace.com - Les frères Grand - CA - www.myspace.com/lesfreresgrand

[JoeStrange]

In this setup, I think that the AD on the tascam is not as good as the better DA that your comparing. The result being that they sound a lot more similar than they should. The AD doesn't clearly "see" the subleties of the better DAs (lowest common denominator and all...)

I agree, I think the AD of the tascam is creating to much of a similarity between all 7 which makes the DA of all the converters almost indistinguishable.

With that being said, I do not believe this test is fair to any of these company's. I believe its time to take a different approach and re-do this test.

I would like you guys to chime in with some ideas of how you think this test should be done so we can all hear the true difference's in quality between all these converters.

Its time to do it all over again.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by Wild Sky

I think that the AD on the tascam is not as good as the better DA that your comparing. The result being that they sound a lot more similar than they should. The AD doesn't clearly "see" the subleties of the better DAs (lowest common denominator and all...)

here, i hear a big difference

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by JoeStrange

I agree, I think the AD of the tascam is creating to much of a similarity between all 7 which makes the DA of all the converters almost indistinguishable.

With that being said, I do not believe this test is fair to any of these company's. I believe its time to take a different approach and re-do this test.

I would like you guys to chime in with some ideas of how you think this test should be done so we can all hear the true difference's in quality between all these converters.

Its time to do it all over again.

how about just a simple loopback?

• take any stereo song clip, ideally from a nice sounding professional cd.
• load the clip in logic, and upsample it to whatever bit/sample rate you decide to use for the test (ie. 24 bit, 88.2 khz).
• one by one, connect each unit to your daw.
• ensure only one unit is connected to your computer at a time so logic must use their internal clocks each time.
• for each unit, plug your analog outs into your analog ins, using the same cables every time.
• then, for each unit, play/record a new copy of the upsampled song clip as it passes through both the da and ad in one swoop and back into logic.

make sense? i'd love to hear it if so! just be sure to pick a good, balanced song/recording!

[Josh Rose]

Yeah, this seems like an odd test. I'd rather not be trying to decipher what contribution the CD player conversion is making. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but if this test is about comparing different converters, I'd prefer to remove any additional conversion from the formula.

[WinterSun]

For what it's worth I liked 3 followed by 6 in this test, but they all sound too similar, likely because they were subject to the AD conversion of the Tascam. I agree that a simple loopback test would be better. I'd also like to hear the highs represented better (hi-hat, cymbals, etc).

Could you at least reveal the answers to this test?

(or PM me with answers)

[Field Marshall]

Pleeeeeeeease, do another test !!! Right now I'm considering to sell my Fireface 800 and buy something better, so I'd like to know where the Fireface stands.

[Gearhero]

How are we supposed to judge what each converter sounds like without know which is which? I don't want to be unfairly influenced by blind listening.

[JoeStrange]

Ok,

So im going to do the loopback test somtime this coming week, I'll keep you guys posted...and BTW the fireface IMO is right up there with some of the best converters on the market.

[myrtlebacker]

If you can do me a favor, please paste my DAC test file unto the back of your test wave. (See: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/3684233-post11.html for the file). It doesn't sound nice, but it won't hurt your speakers. It'd be great for me to see some more results of different converters.

[haryy]

Here's what i came up with:
1) motu
2) M-audio
3) Apogee
4) Prism
5) M-audio
6) Motu
7) Rme

Maybe i mixed up m-audio with motu or maybe it's all mixed up

[JoeStrange]

Not that the results really matter,But here they are.

Your the only one who picked out the prism haryy, I couldnt even pick it out when listening blind....Thats why I believe the conversion of the tascam really did make all 7 sound WAY to similar.


1- RME Fireface 800
2- Apogee DA16X
3- Motu Traveler
4- Prism
5- M-Audio 410
6- Motu 828mk2
7- M-Audio 2626

[WinterSun]

Originally Posted by JoeStrange

1- RME Fireface 800
2- Apogee DA16X
3- Motu Traveler
4- Prism
5- M-Audio 410
6- Motu 828mk2
7- M-Audio 2626

Apparently I like the sound of Motu conversion....wierd

[space2012]

wow,

would be nice, to hear this same test again but with other ADCs, could be the AD, if i keep choosing the same DACs, its not the AD.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by JoeStrange

I Will Post an internal bounce from Logic to compare to (good suggestion).

This is the only way I could think of to hear the "DA" of these converters and compare the differences of them.

+1.

[haryy]

Originally Posted by JoeStrange

Not that the results really matter,But here they are.

Your the only one who picked out the prism haryy, I couldnt even pick it out when listening blind....Thats why I believe the conversion of the tascam really did make all 7 sound WAY to similar.


1- RME Fireface 800
2- Apogee DA16X
3- Motu Traveler
4- Prism
5- M-Audio 410
6- Motu 828mk2
7- M-Audio 2626

Maybe i was just lucky but i thought i clearly heard the prism quality, that's all.
But this test shows that you can find good quality dacs regardless of price.
Well done!

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Gearhero

How are we supposed to judge what each converter sounds like without know which is which? I don't want to be unfairly influenced by blind listening.

You're kidding, right?


/Peter

[Jamzone]

Originally Posted by Gearhero

How are we supposed to judge what each converter sounds like without know which is which? I don't want to be unfairly influenced by blind listening.

Stunning!

[mammath]

Originally Posted by Gearhero

How are we supposed to judge what each converter sounds like without know which is which? I don't want to be unfairly influenced by blind listening.

This one's definitely signature worthy!