Lynx Aurora 16 vs Behringer ADA8000
#391
8th January 2010
Old 8th January 2010
  #391
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DeadPoet's Avatar
 

I'm in the studio now, testing the ADA8k. Nothing scientific, just using the tools available.


Testing with: Cubase5, PC with SSL MadiXtreme64 card ->madi cable -> SSL Alphalink -> adat cable -> ADA8000
All clocked by a Mutec Smartclock, the behringer set to clock via adat.
Sample rate 88kHz.

Recording a 15k sine wave (generator of cubase) and pitch shifting it up an octave.

The 30k test tone is picked up by the alpha link (i see activity on cubase's VU) but not by the ADA8000.

I have set up my madixtreme to not use S/MUX. The alpha link channels show up under ch1-24 in my Cubase, the ADA is 25-28. Odd and even channels are summed together (meaning: if I put something in inputs 1 & 2 it is summed together and recorded on madi input stream 25). The outputs function the same way: whatever I put in madi output stream 28 is sent to both ouputs 7 & 8.


Also when fiddling with the signal generator the absolute lowest frequencies (1-8Hz) 'look' different in the VU (lower level, more 'bouncy' signal).



I only use my ADA8k for some cue sends, click and 'talkback-automuter' (smtpe into compressor sidechain trick). Never had someone complain they hadn't enough 30k in their click


(btw: I have one of the older, phase-inverting ADA8k's)


Herwig
#392
9th January 2010
Old 9th January 2010
  #392
Gear maniac
 
Jenz's Avatar
 

I can't believe so many prefers A (the original shootout). Listening to the Beck, Live and Dredge tracks here (Barefoots, Dangerous monitor controller and actually through an Aurora) I was horrified how hard and nasty A sounds. B sounds way smoother, a bit softer than the original but way more pleasant imo. Especially since I do a lot if ITB work these days, it's a good match. Who said B was hyped in the 6-8 k area? It's quite the opposite. Aurora seems more colored than I'd expect, but not in a particulary bad way. I hate nasty high mids!
#393
9th January 2010
Old 9th January 2010
  #393
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fossaree's Avatar
 

Anyways , the bottom line still is "how much difference converters make on 2010 recordings", and regarding it I think TASCAMWIZ , wisely covered some great aspects in his last posts .

Is there a difference between a 3 k and an under 1k convertor ? Probably there is (are) .
Is it noticeable to prevent you to make great recordings ?
No , it is not . That's all about .
#394
18th January 2010
Old 18th January 2010
  #394
Gear nut
 

has anyone with an ada 8000 ever have a problem with the power supply?
norman_nomad
Thread Starter
#395
18th January 2010
Old 18th January 2010
  #395
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norman_nomad's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveyDubs View Post
has anyone with an ada 8000 ever have a problem with the power supply?
Oh yeahh.. 2 of the 4 ada8000's I've owned died of a bad PSU within months of purchase. They had a bad batch of toroidal transformers which was the cause... I'm not sure if they switched manufacturers or not. As the adage goes "You get what you...."
#396
18th January 2010
Old 18th January 2010
  #396
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Lemonsqueezer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
Oh yeahh.. 2 of the 4 ada8000's I've owned died of a bad PSU within months of purchase. They had a bad batch of toroidal transformers which was the cause... I'm not sure if they switched manufacturers or not. As the adage goes "You get what you...."

thank the lord for the warranty period.
#397
18th January 2010
Old 18th January 2010
  #397
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illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
Oh yeahh.. 2 of the 4 ada8000's I've owned died of a bad PSU within months of purchase. They had a bad batch of toroidal transformers which was the cause... I'm not sure if they switched manufacturers or not. As the adage goes "You get what you...."
I got a guy who's going to be building me a psu for 3 ada8000s. SO bye bye psu issues!

I had one die on me the other day! Then again I left it on for almost 3 years!

Peace
Illumination
#398
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #398
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spitfire8898's Avatar
 

Soooooo after reading the whole thread...it's a bit of a blur.

Did someone post that it's not worth have BLA mod the ADA8000? I think you did, Nomad?
norman_nomad
Thread Starter
#399
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #399
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norman_nomad's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by spitfire8898 View Post
Soooooo after reading the whole thread...it's a bit of a blur.

Did someone post that it's not worth have BLA mod the ADA8000? I think you did, Nomad?
I don't know about the BLA mod...

I personally did a mod where I bypassed the pres and took signal directly to the converter chip ... literally line level signal through a couple resistors and a black gates electrolytic cap straight to the input of the converter chip. A very clean, very simple signal path. There was a difference in sound but I would consider it negligible.

Actually I found the test files on my laptop, so you can judge for yourself.
Sorry.. no full mixes just individual tracks. This was a loopback test so both sets of files are going through the unmodded Ada8000 output... so maybe less useful than a tracking test where only the A/D is involved.
Attached Files
File Type: wav Snare - mod.wav (1.49 MB, 168 views) File Type: wav Snare - no mod.wav (1.49 MB, 133 views) File Type: wav Room mic - mod.wav (1.24 MB, 110 views) File Type: wav Room mic - no mod.wav (1.24 MB, 106 views) File Type: wav Bass - mod.wav (1.08 MB, 92 views) File Type: wav Bass - no mod.wav (1.08 MB, 90 views)
#400
3rd February 2010
Old 3rd February 2010
  #400
Gear interested
 

i don t own any of those
i was just trying to decide which one sounds better for me , not trying to focusing on any thing
dynamics precission or what ever and with no doubt B just sounds better
i don t get how you like A
#401
3rd February 2010
Old 3rd February 2010
  #401
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bitman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
I don't know about the BLA mod...

I personally did a mod where I bypassed the pres and took signal directly to the converter chip ... literally line level signal through a couple resistors and a black gates electrolytic cap straight to the input of the converter chip. A very clean, very simple signal path. There was a difference in sound but I would consider it negligible.

Actually I found the test files on my laptop, so you can judge for yourself.
Sorry.. no full mixes just individual tracks. This was a loopback test so both sets of files are going through the unmodded Ada8000 output... so maybe less useful than a tracking test where only the A/D is involved.
I thing the modded versions sound more true to life. - especially that bass. Might be better transient response, I dunno.

The un-modded were cloudier - like the sound I have come to expect from my ADA8000s which have the preamps bypassed but my inputs go straight to the inputs of the final tl074 and not the ADC inputs. That was most convenient.
#402
3rd February 2010
Old 3rd February 2010
  #402
Gear interested
 

I have a dead ada8000, having already been sent back to the company after about 10 months it has died again. Bad PSU I am guessing as there is open circuit toroidal across one of the transformer coils. To be honest when it was running it was not a horrendous sonic. Since I have messed about with it and it is old (for B****ger 5 years ish ) it is not going to go back under warranty. Anyone know what voltages should be reading on the outputs of the transformer at all?

Any help wold be greatly appreciated as it would be nice to get it running again.

R
RTR
#403
3rd February 2010
Old 3rd February 2010
  #403
RTR
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[QUOTE=space2012;3573736]thats why i ask, to do the Toxicity loop.

where does that ITB comes from ?
same cables? same AC line ?

loops cannot perform better than the source.

recordings with aurora sound diferent,
for example:
Barron Studios: Houston’s Recording Studio » New 47 Mic Shootout
aurora converters
1&3 completely unprocessed
http://www.recordwithbarron.com/imag...Vox%20Solo.zip

http://www.recordwithbarron.com/imag...Mix%20Test.zip

http://www.recordwithbarron.com/imag...0and%20Vox.zip[/QUOTE

HAHA, behringer sounds close to Aurora..thats Awesome, unless you actually spent the money on an Aurora ....
#404
10th February 2010
Old 10th February 2010
  #404
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plaid_emu's Avatar
My new ADA8000 should arrive this afternoon

I do have a question about word clocking maybe someone could possibly answer. I also ordered these today because the manual said I needed to:



In theory what would happen if I were to hook the Fireface 400's BNC cable up to the ADA8000 without the word clock termination? Nothing? Will it just degrade the audio or will it fry any of my gear? I can temporarily clock it from the ADAT input until the BNC T and the terminator are delivered, but I was just curious what's behind the science. WHY are these pieces are necessary?

Mostly I'm worried the T adapter will interfere with the physical access of the ADAT input on the back of the unit. SEE BELOW>>>



But I'm afraid that just clocking it from the ADAT input might not give me the best possible sound.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.
#405
10th February 2010
Old 10th February 2010
  #405
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Captain Proton's Avatar
 

I've been clocking my Evetide H8000FW over Adat at 88khz from a Motu 2408mk3 using the Eventide as clock source.

Locks great and no glitches so far.
#406
11th February 2010
Old 11th February 2010
  #406
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plaid_emu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
I've been clocking my Evetide H8000FW over Adat at 88khz from a Motu 2408mk3 using the Eventide as clock source.

Locks great and no glitches so far.
Thanks.
Yeah, the difference is probably negligible. I'll see how it works out. It didn't get delivered until almost 20:00 last night so I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
#407
15th February 2010
Old 15th February 2010
  #407
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ddageek's Avatar
 

Okay This is going to ramble. I started today out really pissed a Transmission repair on the C32 ate my gear budget, I was going to buy a Used Apogee DA16 since I can't find another Pair of Panasonic WZ-DA96s and really need 16 more channels of DA for a full 32 plus my little old Lavry DA10.
Well I stumble upon a pair of used ADA8000s and blacklion tells me they still mod them.
But they are that god awful Behringer How can they sound any good? Well after Listening to all these Samples through the Panasonic's and Quested F11a's and Crown Studio Reference powered Quested H208s and Magnepan 3.3rs powered buy a big old threshold via the Lavry DA10s . I have to say these Cheap POS hold their own and when clocked too a decent clock are a great buy and I'm buying a pair eventually sending them to BLA!
Yeah They are probably only place holders for another pair of Panasonics but I can live with them for now!
#408
1st April 2010
Old 1st April 2010
  #408
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meymia's Avatar
 

K i got it right before i saw the resaults the 1st test the lynx had more bright high mids then the b word did...the 2nd test with the song breaks the lynx has more low mid then the b word has...and in the last song by back the lynx had reallt little diference over the lynx maybe alittle bit in the fulness of the guitar but mainly on the snare wich was fuller.

Definatly not worth the HUGE price deference between the two.
#409
21st May 2010
Old 21st May 2010
  #409
Gear interested
 

it seems almost incredible (this A-B fight)
but iam from germany - and i know products from beringer ...
some behringer gear (no name) are just TRASH.

but maybe some posters remember the preamp-test from rob fraboni.

2 neve-preamps vs. (siemens) V72 vs. V76 and finaly vs. a
190$ behringer mixer (under a blanket-while the test).
the beringer was not the winner ... but so close to some other candidate that a few listener leave the house quickly...

cheers
#410
21st May 2010
Old 21st May 2010
  #410
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meymia View Post
K i got it right before i saw the resaults the 1st test the lynx had more bright high mids then the b word did...the 2nd test with the song breaks the lynx has more low mid then the b word has...and in the last song by back the lynx had reallt little diference over the lynx maybe alittle bit in the fulness of the guitar but mainly on the snare wich was fuller.

Definatly not worth the HUGE price deference between the two.
well have a look at those with various pieces of equipment and correlate that with what they earn. Do you reckon that all high end equipment is owned by people who make money and then just buy it because they can? Or do you think that there are many people out there who see quality differences that matter to them which translates into the work they get?

I'm not a GS for GS sake {it's why I only have 1 Prism but a few Aurora and 192s} - but I do recognize certain provisos to get certain types and levels of quality into the work.
#411
22nd May 2010
Old 22nd May 2010
  #411
Gear Head
 

The Chips

Great Thread! I have a question/comment....A few pages back someone gave a break down of the chip set's that are used in the respective unit's. It was stated that motu and metric halo use the same chip..... Years ago I sent in a Motu 2408 MK3 to Black Lion for the analog stage mod. The difference was noticeable but not by much. The next week a friend of mine brought over his new Metric Halo ULN2. Being that I had just spent $350 to upgrade my Motu, I really wanted it to sound better. It didn't, I mean it really didn't. (D/A)... So, here's my question. If they both use the same chip and analog stages were comparable, what made the difference? The clock?
#412
23rd May 2010
Old 23rd May 2010
  #412
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threebeing View Post
Great Thread! I have a question/comment....A few pages back someone gave a break down of the chip set's that are used in the respective unit's. It was stated that motu and metric halo use the same chip..... Years ago I sent in a Motu 2408 MK3 to Black Lion for the analog stage mod. The difference was noticeable but not by much. The next week a friend of mine brought over his new Metric Halo ULN2. Being that I had just spent $350 to upgrade my Motu, I really wanted it to sound better. It didn't, I mean it really didn't. (D/A)... So, here's my question. If they both use the same chip and analog stages were comparable, what made the difference? The clock?
The clock is important, so is the layout (circuit, board design etc.) of the converter, the PSU (although BL have probably taken care of this).
#413
24th May 2010
Old 24th May 2010
  #413
Pragmatic Snob
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threebeing View Post
If they both use the same chip and analog stages were comparable, what made the difference?

I'm extremely skeptical of the notion that motu and MH use the same analog stage; I'd be shocked, in fact, to learn that was the case.

The analog front end is most of the sound of the converter in my experience. Chips, yeah they matter, and a lame clock can muck things up, but by and large it's what you use to get the signal to those chips that matters. If you've got cheap, craptastic ic's in the path and a bunch of cheap, craptastic caps, you could have the same chipsets as a Prism or Burl and it'll still sound like cheap crap.



Gregory Scott - ubk
#414
24th May 2010
Old 24th May 2010
  #414
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
I'm extremely skeptical of the notion that motu and MH use the same analog stage; I'd be shocked, in fact, to learn that was the case.

The analog front end is most of the sound of the converter in my experience. Chips, yeah they matter, and a lame clock can muck things up, but by and large it's what you use to get the signal to those chips that matters. If you've got cheap, craptastic ic's in the path and a bunch of cheap, craptastic caps, you could have the same chipsets as a Prism or Burl and it'll still sound like cheap crap.



Gregory Scott - ubk
All true, but I think he meant the analog front end would have been identical after Black Lion peformed their mod on both. But there's more than one way to design an analog front end, and putting in better op amps and caps, and maybe stabilizing the PSU still won't change the fact that the signal path could be very different.
#415
24th May 2010
Old 24th May 2010
  #415
Gear Head
 

Chips

Yah, I was assuming that the analog stage on the Black Lion Motu would be comparable to the Metric Halo..... I'm with you on the importance of the front end. I was using a Dan Alexander/Neve and a Tube-Tech Cl1b for most of my tracking back then, still sounded really good on the stock Motu.

Last edited by Popschild; 24th May 2010 at 05:09 PM.. Reason: addition
#416
27th May 2010
Old 27th May 2010
  #416
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Finnish's Avatar
 

Ah, a great thread! I have two ADA8000s, got them for 50€ total...

Anyway, I have also EMU 0404 USB and I really like the sound of it, maybe it's the AD/DA-stage in EMU? Can someone say or compare the sound (just the conversion) of EMU vs. ADA8000?

I'm quite happy with EMU, but I need more I/O so I'm about to setup my studio around M-Audio 1814 and ADA8000s. I hate the analog stage in M-Audio, that's why I've been using EMU.
#417
21st June 2010
Old 21st June 2010
  #417
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79_Limited's Avatar
 

To bring back an old but very interesting thread. I see a lot prefer the Big Ben as the Master clock. I too need more AD/DA conversion. I currently have an older Motu Digitial Timepiece. Does anyone have any experience how this older piece would compare to the newer master clocks out on the market?

I have been using an Alesis HD24XR and have been using its master clock with success but I will no longer have access to this unit.
#418
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
  #418
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
Well... I only half agree with you.

I think yours is a somewhat privileged position. Not everyone can afford an Aurora/Apogee/Lavry/Mytek, etc.... To say Behringer gear somehow inherently takes on bad karma thus non-original music is kind of a leap. Behringer's process of taking popular circuit designs, changing them enough not to get sued and repackaging them under their own brand goes on in ALL industries. You ever buy a polo shirt that wasn't a polo? Your girl ever buy a fancy Prada handbag that wasn't a Prada? Now I'm not saying that because it happens elsewhere it makes it OK... I'm just saying that the morality isn't quite as black and white as you're making it here IMO.

On some level I'm glad Behringer gear is out there for kids who are desperate to create music but have no money... who grow up poor, but have a talent they want to capture...

As for me...I'll continue to buy quality when I can afford it.
I love this post
#419
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
  #419
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
Well... I only half agree with you.

I think yours is a somewhat privileged position. Not everyone can afford an Aurora/Apogee/Lavry/Mytek, etc.... To say Behringer gear somehow inherently takes on bad karma thus non-original music is kind of a leap. Behringer's process of taking popular circuit designs, changing them enough not to get sued and repackaging them under their own brand goes on in ALL industries. You ever buy a polo shirt that wasn't a polo? Your girl ever buy a fancy Prada handbag that wasn't a Prada? Now I'm not saying that because it happens elsewhere it makes it OK... I'm just saying that the morality isn't quite as black and white as you're making it here IMO.

On some level I'm glad Behringer gear is out there for kids who are desperate to create music but have no money... who grow up poor, but have a talent they want to capture...

As for me...I'll continue to buy quality when I can afford it.
"Afford it"? What does that mean? You don't need most things in your house, but you afforded them. "I can't afford it" is all about priorities. I'm certainly not rich, but I've been driven to great tone, by a personal need, and it has paid off in satisfaction, and yes 'success'.

Yet let's be clear, people who get into recording, are by definition rich. The "poor kids" go to a friend's house, via an invitation, because they have a talent that inspires. If you buy an mbox and have a 57 and a $100 chinese condenser you can make a great record. It's not expensive. Get a 003 if you're better off and you'll have more power than most people ever had. These are innovations, at least, and not copies. Buy innovations if you're an innovator. Buy copies if you're a copier.

Ethics are fairly clear in the case of Behringer. It's about karma and identity. When you support stealing, you too are a thief. We can lie to ourselves about it, but we are what we endorse. Behringer copies others hard work ... they steal creativity ... straight up. They have often used a photo copier. They're simply banking on the expense in the legal war being too much bother for the owner of the designs. From Boss to Apogee to Mackie, they copy. Do you want that energy in your life? I don't. You're welcome to it, but there are other options.

It's never been easy to do the right thing, but it's the basis of everything good we enjoy today.
#420
30th July 2010
Old 30th July 2010
  #420
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post

Ethics are fairly clear in the case of Behringer. It's about karma and identity. When you support stealing, you too are a thief. We can lie to ourselves about it, but we are what we endorse. Behringer copies others hard work ... they steal creativity ... straight up. They have often used a photo copier. They're simply banking on the expense in the legal war being too much bother for the owner of the designs. From Boss to Apogee to Mackie, they copy. Do you want that energy in your life? I don't. You're welcome to it, but there are other options.
+


I hope people really try to understand what you are saying with this...
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