Testing Audix D6 and Josephson e22s mic & 4 way SSL X-Logic mic pre unit - on drums

**Jules** · 8th April 2005, 07:15 PM

(UPDATE - post 25 below has the audio file)

Audix D6 delivers great low end and a nice HF 'slap' on kick

Josephson e22s fits right in there between the hat & the snare.

both mic's do what they claim on the box.

Inside kick = Audix D6 - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting click) Fatso Jnr - PT
Top Snare = Josephson e22s - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting HF) Fatso Jnr - PT

I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer Royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE!

I am still using my fave Beyer 201 - API - Vocal Stresssor (for HF boost and extreme compresssion) on the undersnare

As Mr Albini says in the user guide that comes with the Josephson (he wrote the whole thing) the HF spill sound from hi hat & overheads is pleasent rather than annoying... and that is true. This is a joy to us....really

SSL pre's - are performing very well indeed

OH - OH 2 x Beyer M160 (in ORTF) SSL X-Logic mic pre's - TubeTech PE 1C (HF & sub boost for cymbal 'sheen' & tom 'thunder'- PT

Thanks to Keith at KMR UK for the loan!

Simon Lomax · 8th April 2005, 07:24 PM

I loved the josephson e22 when I tried it out!! Works really well on snare (of course) but was killer on mesa-boogie guitar combo

I found the SSL mic pres to be really nice and open - very good for OH and acoustic guitar, if you want a bright prominent sound.

Enjoy your tesing!

Si

lucey · 8th April 2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

both mic's do what they claim on the box.

Inside kick = Audix D6 - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting click) Fatso Jnr - PT
Top Snare = Josephson e22s - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting HF) Fatso Jnr - PT

I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE!

I'd love to hear that e22 ...

Also try the D6 on the beater side o kik (out of phase) with a dark LDC or the 121

**Jules** · 8th April 2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucey

I'd love to hear that e22 ...

Also try the D6 on the beater side o kik (out of phase) with a dark LDC or the 121

the e22s is worth a try for sure!!!

I may try that beater side tip if we hang on to for another session

7rojo7 · 8th April 2005, 08:21 PM

Try the D4!, it's a compact 421, best out of the D series. You might have to Eq it for kik but it should be the only mic you have to use if you put it right. you can use a few of them for different things gtr bass amp trombone baritone sax floortom tom top snare percussion, the D6 you can only put in front of a kik for that one sound if it suits you
D4 beater side and shell side angle them to SS and opposite BS the OH

**Jules** · 8th April 2005, 08:46 PM

We have the D6 inside the kick.. is this illeagal?

lucey · 8th April 2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

Try the D4!, it's a compact 421, best out of the D series. You might have to Eq it for kik but it should be the only mic you have to use if you put it right. you can use a few of them for different things gtr bass amp trombone baritone sax floortom tom top snare percussion, the D6 you can only put in front of a kik for that one sound if it suits you
D4 beater side and shell side angle them to SS and opposite BS the OH

We love the d4 on any bass into a portaflex, centered, with an API 512b to 2"

what's the lingo ... "SS and opposite BS the OH" ?

brownmouse · 8th April 2005, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

We have the D6 inside the kick.. is this illeagal?

fwiw, i use my d6 inside the kik as well. this is combined with a yamaha subkick and it works really well.
joshua

joaquin · 8th April 2005, 11:30 PM

post by Jules

Quote:

I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE!

Hey Jules, Can we listen to some samples of this combination?
Where exactly do you position the D6 with respect to the beater? distance to the front, to the side, and angle?...or it don't matter much?
Isn't the Royer supposed to be fragile and not suited for that much SPL?
Thanks....Joaquin.

**Jules** · 9th April 2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joaquin

post by Jules

Hey Jules, Can we listen to some samples of this combination?
Where exactly do you position the D6 with respect to the beater? distance to the front, to the side, and angle?...or it don't matter much?
Isn't the Royer supposed to be fragile and not suited for that much SPL?
Thanks....Joaquin.

Audix in middle of drum.... (through hole) just off centre.... (I was taught to try to find the spot with the least 'wind" ????? and put the mic there) royer 6 inches away..

I will try to post MP3 samples

On my drum aux I always have McDSP compressor bank, URS N12 graphic eq plug in (boosting 30hz & top 3 bands in smile shape), Cranesong Phoenix set to Dark Essence Opal (3 O'Clock)

Seems both brownmouse and I are diggin the same Audix D6 inner + "something picking up the sub" outer party....

This session is sleazy rock n roll....

Somehow I can imagine the Audix to be an awesome New Metal / Emo punk kick mic...(Oh Sliiiiiiiiiiiipermannnnnnnnn where arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre yooooooooooooooo?)

Is this the Dual Rectum Fryer of kick mic's??

Musiclab · 9th April 2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

Audix in middle of drum.... (through hole) just off centre.... (I was taught to try to find the spot with the least 'wind" ????? and put the mic there) royer 6 inches away..

I will try to post MP3 samples

On my drum aux I always have McDSP compressor bank, URS N12 graphic eq plug in (boosting 30hz & top 3 bands in smile shape), Cranesong Phoenix set to Dark Essence Opal (3 O'Clock)

Seems both brownmouse and I are diggin the same Audix D6 inner + "something picking up the sub" outer party....

This session is sleazy rock n roll....

Somehow I can imagine the Audix to be an awesome New Metal / Emo punk kick mic...(Oh Sliiiiiiiiiiiipermannnnnnnnn where arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre yooooooooooooooo?)

Is this the Dual Rectum Fryer of kick mic's??

It was designed specifically to go inside the kick

7rojo7 · 9th April 2005, 10:58 AM

Sorry
SS = shell side
BS = beater side
OH = overheads
I was in a rush
I was describing something similar to Snare Top and Bottom technique
I always use the same mics for top and bottom and point them directly at each other also keeping in mind the angles of the over heads.
I don't ever point the mic 90° to the skin, one of the first engineers I worked with showed me this and I've done it ever since. If I mic beater side and in the shell through the hole or with the front head off, I position the beater mic for optimum isolation from the snare and Fl.Tom and the shell mic exactly opposite. This works great for closed double headed kiks also with mics you wouldn't normally associate as kik mics, SD condensors. I've used KM56s like this for Jazz kits, but that's a whole different business.
I like the SM91 inside a closed drum sound alot. I like my N90 in the hole or with the head off. Recently I had a Schoeps CCM5 in omni about 2 feet in front of a closed kik with nothing in side and 2 Schoeps CCM5 in Cardioid over head and over the shoulder for a blues power trio which was real. Tight player with good control over his sound.
I wish I could get more N90s, they need a lot of gain but they have a very natural sound. That's what the D4 sounds like to me but I like my N90 better, you can use these mics for other things too.
For a bigger sound I'll put a mike LD 4feet or so in front of the kit 1/2 an inch from the floor angled down a touch (boundary effect) this can make even smaller rooms sound huge.
The D6 is that metal sound for sure and works for other music, I like it better than it's competitors, D112, Beta 52, Sennheiser 602, haven't tried the Beyer kik mic or the EV. But RE20s and 421s come in handy for other purposes.

brendondp · 9th April 2005, 12:49 PM

Hey Jules,

Thanks for posting. I have a very bad case of gear lust for the Josephsons, so I, for one, appreciate your post of the use of them on drums.

Like others have asked, if you get a chance to post some mp3s, that too would be most appreciated.

What would be even more appreciated would be mp3s of the Josephson on snare, in a shootout with the Beyer (I have the Revox badged version) and the (insert denigrating word here...) SM57.

Taking you completely for granted,

bdp

**Jules** · 9th April 2005, 08:23 PM

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...727#post303727

You will find sound bites there...

in .aiff format

I dunno if they will help you draw any conclusions...

But there they are..

**Jules** · 9th April 2005, 08:29 PM

I have since added SansApmed distorted copy tracks of the inner kick & SN to make it 'hip hop' breath a little more.... (I do that all the time anyway...)

**toolskid** · 9th April 2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joaquin

post by Jules
Isn't the Royer supposed to be fragile and not suited for that much SPL?
Thanks....Joaquin.

the royer is well capable of handling the spls, just angle it downwards and use a decent popshield. I've had people yell into my r122s and an assistant walk it into the door frame on a tall stand (

) no reduction in performance wat-so-ever!!!

very very robust....

AWESOME front of kick mic!!!

alnico · 9th April 2005, 11:13 PM

What about the E22's on toms????!

joaquin · 10th April 2005, 01:49 AM

Hey, Thanks Jules and Toolskid!!
I'm planning on using a D6 in my up coming project paired with a D112 flushed with the outside skin in the Kick. I've been using this last one in that position with great results, I just need to add a little more of "click" to the sound, and for all I'dhear the D6 seems to be the right choice. I may also try a K2 about a feet in front of the Kick...any one did that?
Good to Know that the Royer is capable of high SPL...I was avoiding that mic in my "must have" list for that reason, and the fact that I usually do not work a lot with Fig8 patterns...must try it.
Hey Jules, I could not listen to the samples...

Quote:

I don't ever point the mic 90° to the skin, one of the first engineers I worked with showed me this and I've done it ever since. If I mic beater side and in the shell through the hole or with the front head off, I position the beater mic for optimum isolation from the snare and Fl.Tom and the shell mic exactly opposite. This works great for closed double headed kiks also with mics you wouldn't normally associate as kik mics, SD condensors. I've used KM56s like this for Jazz kits, but that's a whole different business.

Hi 7Rojo7, interesting aproach, but that would be from the beater side?, is the interior mic a 180' out of phase with the one in the beater side? what if you are only using the mic from the inside? would that one be in a 90' angle with the skin?
Jules, what's the angle you are using it in relation with the skin?
I know that I will have to try all my self and get my own conclusions, but knowing others experiences wont hurt.
Thanks again.............................Joaquin.

**Jules** · 10th April 2005, 10:41 AM

"Hey Jules, I could not listen to the samples... "

Try downloading them then burning a CD... they are aiff's

D6 inside, middle of drum, slightly to one side facing straight towards drummer..

It does have a nice click, I added to it with a Focusrite 215 about + 4 db..

7rojo7 · 10th April 2005, 04:32 PM

You check for the one that's in phase with the over heads, the other one should be logically out of phase if it's pointed directly opposite. listen in mono, solo each mic with the overheads and switch the phase. Out of phase presents a drastic decrease in lo end response and after a couple of seconds makes you feel like this

This should be done with every mic on the kit always

I don't ever put a mic at 90° with something blowing into it, not even singers, I angle the mic away from their nose and towards their chest (down) and keep their distance with the pop filter and a music stand
I've only done this on a non double headed kik once when I couldn't no way get a mike inside to work, on double header kiks I use it quite a lot.
The thing I like about double micing drums with opposing pairs is the bass and fullness you get, not just the snare.
If I use 1 mic on a snare, I use a good mic and get it more from the side of the drum (shell), but this doesn't work for every type of drummer or music.
The E22 sounds like it could be good for this.
What's the verdict, what do they go for here in Europe? The E22
Have you used them on gtr amp, ac gtr, other things?
I am actually looking for a "good" snare and tom mic that I can use on other things, and especially as a spot mic when recording orchestral music.
I'm trying some AT AE series next week the 5400 hand held LC gets a shoot out with a KMS105 I expect the 5400 to be bigger and the 3000 side address SC that could work.

**Jules** · 10th April 2005, 05:39 PM

We got great 'live' takes on this session (just putting the last mix down now)

So we didn't do any overdubs... so dont know what it would be like on gtr.. Tom the engineer here is v excited to hear it on gtr....

OK band just left.. said I can stick an MP3 up..

I will add it to the aiff files here...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...727#post303727

pan60 · 10th April 2005, 06:49 PM

thanks for posting the samples jules

joaquin · 10th April 2005, 10:40 PM

Thanks Jules!!

**Jules** · 10th April 2005, 10:59 PM

May try to put up a drum only MP3 tomorrow

**Jules** · 11th April 2005, 05:35 PM

Here it is...

joaquin · 11th April 2005, 06:11 PM

JULES YOU ROCK!! THANK YOU!!

TRW · 11th April 2005, 08:41 PM

Hi Jules! New here but been lurking for ages...great post at a great site.

...lovin' the bottom snare "F**k it!!"

- too funny.

I think the e22s sounds awesome - are you keeping them, impressed? I would kill for a pair of those. Maybe next year...

I think I have to try the sans amp trick BTW - really powerful sound.

Cheers Tom

**Jules** · 11th April 2005, 11:02 PM

We loved BOTH mic's

We would like 1 x Audix D6 and about 8 x Josephson e22s'

Simon Lomax · 11th April 2005, 11:09 PM

I too get the feeling that just a single e22 would never be enough

Si

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8th April 2005, 07:15 PM	#1
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	Testing Audix D6 and Josephson e22s mic & 4 way SSL X-Logic mic pre unit - on drums (UPDATE - post 25 below has the audio file) Audix D6 delivers great low end and a nice HF 'slap' on kick Josephson e22s fits right in there between the hat & the snare. both mic's do what they claim on the box. Inside kick = Audix D6 - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting click) Fatso Jnr - PT Top Snare = Josephson e22s - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting HF) Fatso Jnr - PT I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer Royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE! I am still using my fave Beyer 201 - API - Vocal Stresssor (for HF boost and extreme compresssion) on the undersnare As Mr Albini says in the user guide that comes with the Josephson (he wrote the whole thing) the HF spill sound from hi hat & overheads is pleasent rather than annoying... and that is true. This is a joy to us....really SSL pre's - are performing very well indeed OH - OH 2 x Beyer M160 (in ORTF) SSL X-Logic mic pre's - TubeTech PE 1C (HF & sub boost for cymbal 'sheen' & tom 'thunder'- PT Thanks to Keith at KMR UK for the loan! __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

8th April 2005, 08:21 PM	#5
7rojo7 urumita Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy Posts: 1,295	Try the D4!, it's a compact 421, best out of the D series. You might have to Eq it for kik but it should be the only mic you have to use if you put it right. you can use a few of them for different things gtr bass amp trombone baritone sax floortom tom top snare percussion, the D6 you can only put in front of a kik for that one sound if it suits you D4 beater side and shell side angle them to SS and opposite BS the OH __________________ love and light

8th April 2005, 08:46 PM	#6
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	We have the D6 inside the kick.. is this illeagal? __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

9th April 2005, 10:58 AM	#12
7rojo7 urumita Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy Posts: 1,295	Sorry SS = shell side BS = beater side OH = overheads I was in a rush I was describing something similar to Snare Top and Bottom technique I always use the same mics for top and bottom and point them directly at each other also keeping in mind the angles of the over heads. I don't ever point the mic 90° to the skin, one of the first engineers I worked with showed me this and I've done it ever since. If I mic beater side and in the shell through the hole or with the front head off, I position the beater mic for optimum isolation from the snare and Fl.Tom and the shell mic exactly opposite. This works great for closed double headed kiks also with mics you wouldn't normally associate as kik mics, SD condensors. I've used KM56s like this for Jazz kits, but that's a whole different business. I like the SM91 inside a closed drum sound alot. I like my N90 in the hole or with the head off. Recently I had a Schoeps CCM5 in omni about 2 feet in front of a closed kik with nothing in side and 2 Schoeps CCM5 in Cardioid over head and over the shoulder for a blues power trio which was real. Tight player with good control over his sound. I wish I could get more N90s, they need a lot of gain but they have a very natural sound. That's what the D4 sounds like to me but I like my N90 better, you can use these mics for other things too. For a bigger sound I'll put a mike LD 4feet or so in front of the kit 1/2 an inch from the floor angled down a touch (boundary effect) this can make even smaller rooms sound huge. The D6 is that metal sound for sure and works for other music, I like it better than it's competitors, D112, Beta 52, Sennheiser 602, haven't tried the Beyer kik mic or the EV. But RE20s and 421s come in handy for other purposes. __________________ love and light

8th April 2005, 07:24 PM	#2
Simon Lomax Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Posts: 173	I loved the josephson e22 when I tried it out!! Works really well on snare (of course) but was killer on mesa-boogie guitar combo I found the SSL mic pres to be really nice and open - very good for OH and acoustic guitar, if you want a bright prominent sound. Enjoy your tesing! Si

9th April 2005, 12:49 PM	#13
brendondp Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 605	Hey Jules, Thanks for posting. I have a very bad case of gear lust for the Josephsons, so I, for one, appreciate your post of the use of them on drums. Like others have asked, if you get a chance to post some mp3s, that too would be most appreciated. What would be even more appreciated would be mp3s of the Josephson on snare, in a shootout with the Beyer (I have the Revox badged version) and the (insert denigrating word here...) SM57. Taking you completely for granted, bdp __________________ "No work of art has ever done social harm, though a great deal of harm has been done by those who have sought to protect society against works of art which they regarded as dangerous." Stanley Kubrick (1972) "When I listen to a band like Good Charlotte I think they are a bunch of pussies but then I remember that I’m at that age so I should just shut up and get out of the way." Henry Rollins "We are all sons of bitches now." Kenneth Bainbridge, Physicist, Manhattan Project (1945)

9th April 2005, 08:23 PM	#14
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...727#post303727 You will find sound bites there... in .aiff format I dunno if they will help you draw any conclusions... But there they are.. __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

9th April 2005, 08:29 PM	#15
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	I have since added SansApmed distorted copy tracks of the inner kick & SN to make it 'hip hop' breath a little more.... (I do that all the time anyway...) __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

9th April 2005, 11:13 PM	#17
alnico Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 430	What about the E22's on toms????!

10th April 2005, 10:41 AM	#19
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	"Hey Jules, I could not listen to the samples... " Try downloading them then burning a CD... they are aiff's D6 inside, middle of drum, slightly to one side facing straight towards drummer.. It does have a nice click, I added to it with a Focusrite 215 about + 4 db.. __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

10th April 2005, 04:32 PM	#20
7rojo7 urumita Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy Posts: 1,295	You check for the one that's in phase with the over heads, the other one should be logically out of phase if it's pointed directly opposite. listen in mono, solo each mic with the overheads and switch the phase. Out of phase presents a drastic decrease in lo end response and after a couple of seconds makes you feel like this This should be done with every mic on the kit always I don't ever put a mic at 90° with something blowing into it, not even singers, I angle the mic away from their nose and towards their chest (down) and keep their distance with the pop filter and a music stand I've only done this on a non double headed kik once when I couldn't no way get a mike inside to work, on double header kiks I use it quite a lot. The thing I like about double micing drums with opposing pairs is the bass and fullness you get, not just the snare. If I use 1 mic on a snare, I use a good mic and get it more from the side of the drum (shell), but this doesn't work for every type of drummer or music. The E22 sounds like it could be good for this. What's the verdict, what do they go for here in Europe? The E22 Have you used them on gtr amp, ac gtr, other things? I am actually looking for a "good" snare and tom mic that I can use on other things, and especially as a spot mic when recording orchestral music. I'm trying some AT AE series next week the 5400 hand held LC gets a shoot out with a KMS105 I expect the 5400 to be bigger and the 3000 side address SC that could work. __________________ love and light

10th April 2005, 05:39 PM	#21
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	We got great 'live' takes on this session (just putting the last mix down now) So we didn't do any overdubs... so dont know what it would be like on gtr.. Tom the engineer here is v excited to hear it on gtr.... OK band just left.. said I can stick an MP3 up.. I will add it to the aiff files here... http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...727#post303727 __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

10th April 2005, 06:49 PM	#22
pan60 500 series nutjob Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; ) Posts: 6,456	thanks for posting the samples jules __________________ www.pan60.com A CHARTER MEMBER OF THE LA, MAFIA where is LA? IF YOU ARE NOT INTO THE 500 FORMAT, THEN YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS! quote: your secret identity is safe with me superman! Peter Montessi it is easy to sound as though one was endowed with great intelligence, whilst speaking amongst a crowd of total morons

10th April 2005, 10:40 PM	#23
joaquin Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: CHILE-Miami Posts: 1,147	Thanks Jules!!

10th April 2005, 10:59 PM	#24
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	May try to put up a drum only MP3 tomorrow __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

11th April 2005, 06:11 PM	#26
joaquin Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: CHILE-Miami Posts: 1,147	JULES YOU ROCK!! THANK YOU!!

11th April 2005, 08:41 PM	#27
TRW Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK Posts: 591	Hi Jules! New here but been lurking for ages...great post at a great site. ...lovin' the bottom snare "F**k it!!" - too funny. I think the e22s sounds awesome - are you keeping them, impressed? I would kill for a pair of those. Maybe next year... I think I have to try the sans amp trick BTW - really powerful sound. Cheers Tom

11th April 2005, 11:02 PM	#28
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 12,553	We loved BOTH mic's We would like 1 x Audix D6 and about 8 x Josephson e22s' __________________ Jules "It did proove the soundproofing we have is good, as I heard no gunshots." - Led

11th April 2005, 11:09 PM	#29
Simon Lomax Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Posts: 173	I too get the feeling that just a single e22 would never be enough Si