Peluso VTB vs Sony c800g..FINALLY!!

[mdjice]

Ok here we go...
Number 1 is the Peluso VTB number 2 is the Sony C800G.

in my Opinion these Mics are in the same category of sound but DO NOT sound similar.
Even though I have the VTB I will still in the futur get a Sony.
The Peluso is a good Mic but NOT a replacement for the Sony.
the SOny has more low end and is a lot sweeter on your ears. it also stacks great and take EQ very well.
The VTB has a very particular sound. Not great on every voice . It sounds Ok on mine but it sounded MUCH better on One of my friends, he has a very high pitch voice.

The VTB has a LOT of High Mids which can make it sound a bit harsh and make you HAVE to use a De esser ( on my voice it' a must) that said with a bit of de-esser and Eq I like the VTB used on a Single voice. when the VTB is stacked it can sound thin and harsh.
As mentioned the VTB sounds much better when you have a Warm colored Pre amp to use it with. I didn't like the chandler LTD-1, the SSL Mt+ pre or the Avalon 737 on it but the warmth of a Neve 1073 balanced the frequencies of the mic very well and gave me some good low end while keeping lots of air.
This Mic HAS GREAT AIR nd lots of HIGH (12k and up) it's great for that purpose but again not on every voice. I will try it on a Female Vocalist this week which is where I think the VTB will shine I'll keep you posted.
It is worth mentioning also that the High pass filter is a bit to much. I don't really know the exact freq. cut off but as soon as I have it engaged it made my voice sound way to thin and took too much of the low end off. I have to leave it on which off course gives me much more background noises to get rid of after recording.

Overall:
For the Price the VTB is a good Microphone but does not suit every voice. It can be harsh if paired with a Bright Pre. It's NOT a replacement Solution for the Sony by any means but again with the price difference it would be kind of like asking a ford Mustang to have the same 0 to 60 then a ferrari, it's not happening!
The VTB works good when a single solo voice is needed to come thru a busy track but I would not use it for stacks or for a track where vocal warmth is needed to fill the space (like a vocal/ acoustic guitar only type of track)
again at that price, I keep it. you never know it might be THE BEST MIC on someone else's voice
Hope this helped
M.

[peeder]

I'd pay $700 or so for a P12. All the other Pelusos you can have.

Thanks for helping us see that.

[mdjice]

I was looking at the p12 as well..dirt cheap!!!
i might grab one but i hope it's VERY different from the VTB since I already own one.
I'm getting a SM7 later on today...just to see if it can fit my voice an kill these damn SSSsss.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by mdjice

I was looking at the p12 as well..dirt cheap!!!
i might grab one but i hope it's VERY different from the VTB since I already own one.
I'm getting a SM7 later on today...just to see if it can fit my voice an kill these damn SSSsss.

P12's the only Peluso condenser without the full-order-of-hash-browns-coming-right-up! sizzle. I would trade your VTB for the P12, telling the guy "the VTB sounds EXACTLY like a Sony C800!!!" (hey that's how they try to sell it)

Try singing into the back of a Royer R121 to tame your esses. But if you like air (and it sounds like it) just get a good de-esser. Some people like eiosis plugin, and others dbx 902 or SPL hardware but I haven't tried those.

[hernanperez2000]

I own a c800G, great sounding vocal microphone. c800g and VTB are not in the same league.

When you compare good mics with high-end microphones the differences appears with the time... compression, eq, and how sits in the mix,etc.

[pikapikapi]

Originally Posted by peeder

I'd pay $700 or so for a P12. All the other Pelusos you can have.

Thanks for helping us see that.

where can you find a new p12 for $700?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by pikapikapi

where can you find a new p12 for $700?

I dunno. But if you find a place, let'em know I'll take two.

On approval.

[wildpark]

i think the vtb with a deesser is better for your song as the c800g

Originally Posted by mdjice

Ok here we go...
Number 1 is the Peluso VTB number 2 is the Sony C800G.

in my Opinion these Mics are in the same category of sound but DO NOT sound similar.
Even though I have the VTB I will still in the futur get a Sony.
The Peluso is a good Mic but NOT a replacement for the Sony.
the SOny has more low end and is a lot sweeter on your ears. it also stacks great and take EQ very well.
The VTB has a very particular sound. Not great on every voice . It sounds Ok on mine but it sounded MUCH better on One of my friends, he has a very high pitch voice.

The VTB has a LOT of High Mids which can make it sound a bit harsh and make you HAVE to use a De esser ( on my voice it' a must) that said with a bit of de-esser and Eq I like the VTB used on a Single voice. when the VTB is stacked it can sound thin and harsh.
As mentioned the VTB sounds much better when you have a Warm colored Pre amp to use it with. I didn't like the chandler LTD-1, the SSL Mt+ pre or the Avalon 737 on it but the warmth of a Neve 1073 balanced the frequencies of the mic very well and gave me some good low end while keeping lots of air.
This Mic HAS GREAT AIR nd lots of HIGH (12k and up) it's great for that purpose but again not on every voice. I will try it on a Female Vocalist this week which is where I think the VTB will shine I'll keep you posted.
It is worth mentioning also that the High pass filter is a bit to much. I don't really know the exact freq. cut off but as soon as I have it engaged it made my voice sound way to thin and took too much of the low end off. I have to leave it on which off course gives me much more background noises to get rid of after recording.

Overall:
For the Price the VTB is a good Microphone but does not suit every voice. It can be harsh if paired with a Bright Pre. It's NOT a replacement Solution for the Sony by any means but again with the price difference it would be kind of like asking a ford Mustang to have the same 0 to 60 then a ferrari, it's not happening!
The VTB works good when a single solo voice is needed to come thru a busy track but I would not use it for stacks or for a track where vocal warmth is needed to fill the space (like a vocal/ acoustic guitar only type of track)
again at that price, I keep it. you never know it might be THE BEST MIC on someone else's voice
Hope this helped
M.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

I'm really not one to bash gear, I can usually find some-kind specialized of use for just about anything (within reason) but based on the sound files here, the only thing I could use the VTB for would be as a pot scrubber, it's certainly harsh enough to get job done. Maybe if I try it for myself I might like it better, but for now I think I'll pass. If anyone want's to post examples of the P-12, it would sure be appreciated as it would love to have a pair of C-12's but right now just cant $wing it.


Thanks,

Bill.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi

I'm really not one to bash gear, I can usually find some-kind specialized of use for just about anything (within reason) but based on the sound files here, the only thing I could use the VTB for would be as a pot scrubber, it's certainly harsh enough to get job done.

Based on the samples, I agree.... both mics sound bad, and the VTB sounds a little bit worse.

Just another example of why samples you download off the internet are useless.

Neither mic sounds good on this source. Plus, the VTB seems to be lacking low end in these samples.

You should send that mic back to Peluso IMMEDIATELY when you get back to the states. It probably has a bad tube or something else wrong with it... the low end should not be that far off from a 800G.

Either that or it was a mic position issue/ harsh preamp thing.... How far away was the singer from the mic? Also was it in the ON or OFF setting on the front? What polar pattern did you use?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by peeder

P12's the only Peluso condenser without the full-order-of-hash-browns-coming-right-up! sizzle. I would trade your VTB for the P12, telling the guy "the VTB sounds EXACTLY like a Sony C800!!!" (hey that's how they try to sell it)

The P12 easily has way more sibilance than the VTB... I compared them side by side on multiple artists.... The VTB sibilance was less than most mics in my studio... way less than the P12 and 251.

The only mic that had virtually no sibilance was the 47 LE.

Every mic has some degree of sibilance... it's all dependent on the voice.

[mdjice]

Tony, I was far enough to get both capsules to pick up the vocals in a similar way but close enough to get sufficient level and clean signal.
Maybe something is wrong with my Peluso? I will call John and send it back to him.
The pattern was cardioid and the front switch was set to on ( I actually have files with the switch off but it doesn't really change much in this case).
I just got a SM7 today...boy....my Ssssss problem just...disappeared!!
The VTB made sound harsh as hell...
I will try the VTB again with a neve 1084 this week end and post the files so you guys can get an idea of its sound with a better (but more colored) Pe then the Mt+
M.

[Zuewi]

So Tony you just did a useless thing before you heard the samples...
Can't agree, samples of the internet give you some impressions how the things would (or could) sound....if you don't like don't download.
At least it's nice for those how doesn't have a big studio gear store near the house or even in the country.

Well thanks for the test.
I'd be very interested in some samples of the SM7 =)
And also the other 2 mics on the Neve.

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Just another example of why samples you download off the internet are useless.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Just another example of why samples you download off the internet are useless.

I hear what you are saying, in some cases that's true, in others... not so much. Of course it all depends on the samples you download. You still have to evaluate the item yourself, but sometimes it's possible to get a good idea of the essence of a microphone. For example the decision to try out a TM-1 was based on MP3 examples, and guess what, it turned out to be pretty much the same as what was represented only better. The VTB may turn out to be better than represented here, time will tell, but for now I get the feeling that I'm just not a 800g/VTB type of guy.

[mdjice]

The thing with my test is that they are easy to reproduce. get yourself a VTB plug it on a SSL mt+ and that's the sound you will get! like or not is different thing but the fact that I upload samples on the internet doesn't change anything. if tomorrow you get a VTB and Plug it on the same Pre...you will get the same sound (let's give or take a 5% difference due to converters, cables etc... but in this test only high end gear was used anyways)

[mdjice]

I have been running some tests today and here is a couple of things I noticed.
The VTB sounds better thru the UA 2-610 then the avalon 737. I guess a darker Pre balances out better this bright mic. The Vtb sounded pretty harsh until I used the UA eq -4.5db at 7k...it made it GREAT!!! still lots of air but no more Sibilance!!!
also the High pass filter on the VTB cuts wayyyy to much and should be left alone.
I'm liking this mic and I can find more ways to use it everyday. It just needs to be paired right and EQ. It does NOT replace a C800 by any means but it is a great addition to any Mic locker.
We did a Mic shout out today with my friend and on HIS voice the VTB was a winner (VTB against AKG c414 against Shure Sm7b)
I will have to try it on my voice as well.
I will try the VTB this week end on a Neve 1084, 1073 and on a SSL Super analog Strip.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Zuewi

So Tony you just did a useless thing before you heard the samples...
Can't agree, samples of the internet give you some impressions how the things would (or could) sound....if you don't like don't download.
At least it's nice for those how doesn't have a big studio gear store near the house or even in the country.

Sure, they give you an idea of how something sounds in that particular room, on that particular artist, with that particular mic placement, with that particular preamp, and that particular performance on that particular day.

The problem is..... you don't know what you are hearing... is it the microphone? the preamp? the room? the performance? the placement?

The answer is... YES, it is all of those things.

You just don't know what you are hearing.

Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi

I hear what you are saying, in some cases that's true, in others... not so much. Of course it all depends on the samples you download. You still have to evaluate the item yourself, but sometimes it's possible to get a good idea of the essence of a microphone. For example the decision to try out a TM-1 was based on MP3 examples, and guess what, it turned out to be pretty much the same as what was represented only better. The VTB may turn out to be better than represented here, time will tell, but for now I get the feeling that I'm just not a 800g/VTB type of guy.

Both the VTB and C800-G are infinitely better than represented here. No disrespect to mdjice for doing this for everyone.... But, a $6000 or $7000 mic should not sound that bad in this situation. Neither of the mics sounded good, and it could have been anything (which is why I say samples are useless)... Was it the preamp? Was it the distance from the mics (very possible)? was it the room? Do these mics just not work on that person's voice?

Too many variables to say anything conclusively. The only thing we can say is unfortunately both mics sounded bad.

[mdjice]

Which is why to make sure the VTB get's a fair trial I will record some vocal with the Peluso using a Neve Mic pre in a small tight booth where I recorded hundreds of vocals including tracks all over TV and radio so I know the environment will be good, the pre amp will be good the converters are good the cables are good the only question will be will the mic be good.we will see
M.

[ssl_ambition]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The problem is..... you don't know what you are hearing... is it the microphone? the preamp? the room? the performance? the placement?

The answer is... YES, it is all of those things.

You just don't know what you are hearing.

I have to agree with Tony. There are definitely too many variables to say anything conclusively. I think if these mics would have been tested i.e. in the Ocean Way Studio's or similar then you could eliminate some of the variables but still not all cause you ain`t there.

It`s interesting too hear shoot outs like that, though.
Thanks!

[mdjice]

no problm however the studio where I did the test is a top notch Studio. the room accoustic etc... the ssl is in perfect working order. it doesn matter where I would record it. If I record the same take with the same console, pre and each mic, it will sound the same.

[DivineMusic]

as someone that use to use a c800G daily and i currently use a vtb quite a bit.. both mics should sound alot better than the samples we've heard here...and im not in a World class major studio.. im in my private studio.

my main chain was a C800g > chandler ltd1 >Distressor > apogee ad16x

my current chain is a Vtb > aurora gtqc > lucid 88192

songs that were recorded with the c800 that needed overdubs or punch in's we did with the current chain... there wasnt an audible difference in sound honestly...
if anything i would've rather re-recorded the song with the aurora b/c i love its compressor and even when it gets hit hard its still smooth...

[pikapikapi]

Originally Posted by DivineMusic

as someone that use to use a c800G daily and i currently use a vtb quite a bit.. both mics should sound alot better than the samples we've heard here...and im not in a World class major studio.. im in my private studio.

my main chain was a C800g > chandler ltd1 >Distressor > apogee ad16x

my current chain is a Vtb > aurora gtqc > lucid 88192

songs that were recorded with the c800 that needed overdubs or punch in's we did with the current chain... there wasnt an audible difference in sound honestly...
if anything i would've rather re-recorded the song with the aurora b/c i love its compressor and even when it gets hit hard its still smooth...

do you have any samples we could hear?

[mdjice]

the problem might come from the harshness of the SSL pre. remmber it s a mt+ (old c 200) so it's not as round and think as a analog 4000 or 9000.
I have a 1073 and a 1084 right now I will post samples of the VTB with these pre's

[peeder]

Originally Posted by mdjice

the problem might come from the harshness of the SSL pre. remmber it s a mt+ (old c 200) so it's not as round and think as a analog 4000 or 9000.
I have a 1073 and a 1084 right now I will post samples of the VTB with these pre's

We need something to compare to...

[mdjice]

Well it's just for you guys to hear the sound of the VTB with my voice and I ll sing the same track but recorded on a neve.
unfortunatly I don't have access to the Sony until I go back to work in Paris
M.

[Zuewi]

Could you also include a little clip of the SM7?...That would be very nice :)

Originally Posted by mdjice

Well it's just for you guys to hear the sound of the VTB with my voice and I ll sing the same track but recorded on a neve.
unfortunatly I don't have access to the Sony until I go back to work in Paris
M.

[DominicWyeth]

I have a heap of peluso's i am chucking on ebay soon - if anyone is keen ill message you a link. - mail me dom@REMOVETHISTEXTmusiclab.com.au

[Volodia]

Originally Posted by mdjice

the problem might come from the harshness of the SSL pre. remmber it s a mt+ (old c 200) so it's not as round and think as a analog 4000 or 9000.
I have a 1073 and a 1084 right now I will post samples of the VTB with these pre's

Helo mdjice , the MT+ uses the same pre as the 9000 series . It's not bad pre at all but saying SSL pres are bad is a trend ( there's a world between 4k series and 9k series they're quite different) .

The result comes from the fact that you sung in both mics at the same time making the direction less than optimal .

Even if it's different performances I think it's better to do separate passes for each mic .

For your voice I would definetely try a 47 type microphone . When you're around come test mine (and a few others too) .