HERE IT IS! The 500 Series Shootout Files!

[AllAboutTone]

For guitars im putting a GAMA on my list, i really love that cat, the LaChapell on the other hand is a turn off due to it taking up 2 spaces, thats one reason i want buy a GR. They should figure a way to put these guys in a one space like the others imo.

[James Lugo]

Originally Posted by mikymike

Thanks to James and all involved in the shootout, but, for the life of me, I can not understand why there are other instruments in the samples other than the test pre??? Can someone explain this to me? It is very difficult to focus on the the pre when there is so much going on.

cuz I've done solo shootouts and everyone complains because they can't hear the source in any context. Sometimes you just can't win. I tried to make the shootout sources overly loud to kind of bridge the gap.

[AllAboutTone]

No problems here, i thought you did a more than perfect well done job, i like hearing other instruments in a shootout, it lets me know how things stack and blend. Yes they were a vocal here and there to loud or low but i could still hear well enough to make a decision on it, I wanna know how stuff sits in the mix, to many times ive said a guitar sounded great but when blended with everything else it was not so good, so no bitchin here my friend, all thumbs up for the shootout you did.

wow i went back and corrected my spelling, must have been asleep...sorry.

[pan60]

thanks for the hard work James! : )~
i just do not hear any, pre killing any other pre, i do hear some very great pres, with some nice subtile differences, and favors!
a great starting point, but as is so often mentioned, once again i will add, you need to try these pres, in your studio and go from their.
remember this
different mics
different rooms
different sources
different moods
different moon

again great works James!

[Bradahman]

It was great to AB these files... That poor guy. I think the male samples were the hardest to judge because the song was not a good match with that vocalist. It was probably not his style of music and it was not a comfortable range for him to deal with, so his performance was not consistent enough to really form a full opinion. God bless him for giving it all. He seemed to tire from the middle files on. rough gig. The Mutant is also softer in the mix than the others. No biggie, but I really wanted to see how it compared with the others... But all in all it is a great resource. Not a tell all end all, but it helps. Thank you James, and all who were involved.

[lrieves]

it was great to finally hear the Pants, sounded like it added a nice sparkle to the top end, even more so than the Biz -might have to check that one out. the mono gama is pretty killer, the only problem i would have is having so many options that i could easily see myself messing with settings rather than recording. then again, i might have to check it out. and the MA5 jumped out to me as well. i definitely heard the neve sound everyone has been talking about... how am i going to fit all of those into my lunchbox?

[HeavyG]

Originally Posted by NandoOg7

I need to change my pants after looking at those pictures!

...pitching a tent for the 500 pre travelling big top circus...that pic is the gear equivalent of an ice cold belgian beer on an 85 degree after tarring the roof (ala Andy Dufrain in Shawshank Redemption).

[Diegel]

I like the P-1 and 583 best. It is hard to tell because of level and performance differences. On the female vocals the 583 sounds much louder and in your face. Sounds also like the mic is closer but again that could be just level difference. My only beef with the 583 is that is sounds so good it makes you listen to the sound more than to the performance. It is almost like an effect on the source and that could be called for or not. I think the p-1 is more balanced but I think it would be more obvious with more level on a few tracks. Both are great and each could be first pick depending on song.

[Diegel]

Actually after more listening I really like the bae312 too. Seems like the most versatile and sounds truer to the source and has less of an effect which again could be just right depending on the situation.

[aberwastone]

Just about all the greatest 500 pre's for acoustic and voice use what? Jensens... Yes I am a Jensen fan and proud..

Thanks to this post...I realized that Lachappelle and Avedis both use Jensen in some way..in or out or both...

Man..I just bought a 512c...from VK...I wish I would have gotten the Lachappelle 583s or Ma5... instead...

Oh well, I will find use for my 512c..

Question? Just an observation... but... Were all the volumes the same? To my ears...you can be easily fooled to believe one sounds better than the other by volume alone. For example...The guitar tracks for the P1 were louder than the API 512c.. But I told my ears to ignore the volume jedi mind trick...and listen to the tone, harmonics, all that good stuff... And I was more able to find the 500s I liked... The MA5 is the overall winner. I am buying one of those this week. The acoustic and voice winner is the Lachapelle 583s. There were some close calls. ..especially for the guitar. S-Hill, BIZ rocked, MA-5, Bizarr, Red, ...I heard more guitar detail with those..Also the vox volumes would fluctuate from pre to pre...I ignored that as well.....I was listening for the realism that each pre provided.. I like hearing a vox recording where the singer sounds like he or she is right in front of you, doing it live..so to say...Like Jack Johnson's new record..sleeping in the static..awesome recording and the 583s recordings you guys did..nice work!

Thanks for the post!!!


PS...what HAPPENED?? to the massive The Juggernaut??? I really wanted to hear that one..maybe next time.

[mildav]

male(rock) 512 other lachappel
female p1-lachappel
e.guitar p1
acoustic lachappel
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[mildav]

sorry man...question

the pacifica is the same think of p1 500 series...same sound?

[anguswoodhead]

Call me crazy but I just ordered the LaChapell 583s based on this forums findings - scary hay.

[ruff]

much thanks from paris for your work !!!

[James Lugo]

Originally Posted by anguswoodhead

Call me crazy but I just ordered the LaChapell 583s based on this forums findings - scary hay.

The 583s in the shootout is my personal unit. It's an incredible pre, you won't be disappointed. And Scott is perfect on customer service!

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by aberwastone

PS...what HAPPENED?? to the massive The Juggernaut??? I really wanted to hear that one..maybe next time.

UPS mis-delivered our package and delivered it on the following Monday after the shootout (it was guaranteed for Friday before everything started). I'll have my own independent files with some higher end Wunder and Bock mics. I'll also be able to do a drumkit as samples too since I'll have a rack full of them.

[Diegel]

Is there anyone else who thinks the BAE312 is one of the best if not the best of the bunch. Something about it just sounds the most natural to me on all sources. It just makes everything sound very human and not so "studio".

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

UPS mis-delivered our package and delivered it on the following Monday after the shootout (it was guaranteed for Friday before everything started). I'll have my own independent files with some higher end Wunder and Bock mics. I'll also be able to do a drumkit as samples too since I'll have a rack full of them.

I noticed that was missing, i wanted to hear it as well. I don't think the GR was on there either.
Let us know when you post !!!

[TocaLaGuitara]

Hey Nathan, any audio samples you've got would be great. After listening to the shootout clips, I am really on the fence between your Juggernaut and the Mono GAMA. I heard the bass clip that came with a review posted a few weeks ago, but I'd really like to hear the Jugggernaut on a few other sources

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by TocaLaGuitara

Hey Nathan, any audio samples you've got would be great. After listening to the shootout clips, I am really on the fence between your Juggernaut and the Mono GAMA. I heard the bass clip that came with a review posted a few weeks ago, but I'd really like to hear the Jugggernaut on a few other sources

Since the first batch are coming in on Wed-ish of this week, I'm hoping I will have the ability to grab at least a couple for sound samples. James still has the only prototype unit which I might not see for a couple of weeks. If I have to wait for the second batch for sound samples purposes it will be at least a few weeks. I have at least 10 available left out of this first batch that are not definitively spoken for, but I've had a lot of inquiries (quite a few Gearslutz members too), so I have to put potential customers who have called about it first (indicating they will probably get one or two) by not making them wait, if at all possible. Not to mention I need to find the right players in my area to do this; I've noticed if the playing and instruments or singing isn't on an 'A' level people have a hard time evaluating sound samples. I'll be at the mercy of the session person's schedule as well. Thank you.

[Fabi]

Originally Posted by Diegel

Is there anyone else who thinks the BAE312 is one of the best if not the best of the bunch. Something about it just sounds the most natural to me on all sources. It just makes everything sound very human and not so "studio".

You are not alone I just spent 2 h just listening to the male vocals and am in love with the BAE312. It just matches my (good or bad?) idea of male vocals.
I also realy liked the mono gama, for I think it could realy stand out in a dense Mix. (also its nice to have so many options with it!!!! could be a main reason to be my favorite)

I think with male vox the differences are quite subtle, but lets face it they are all f***in´amazing, compared to a lot of non500 pres!! I need to get into the 500 thing (are there any diy lunchboxes?)

Didn´t compare the other sources yet, but my ears need a break now

[Fabi]

Oh and i almost forgot ´cause of all the exitement:

THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH. Great job!

If I ever get to LA ill drop of a bottle of my best wine.

[rydan]

A BIG thank you!!!

Looks like the Gama and the LaChapell units went to the top of my list. So, then It's just a matter of finding the money for those two and an API 6-slot lunchbox. That would be a good lunchbox start I reckon... =)

[lrieves]

i just have to point out the humor in the male vocal take when it went from a sweet love song to a raunchy pop tune on the MA5 take when the words went from:

"Let me see you over and over again"

to the less honorable:

"Let me FEEL you over and over again"

anyone else crack up when they heard this? Almost as good as the new Mariah Carey single, "touch my body"

[Rickard]

This was a real ear opener for me. I have not really listened to the sound of different pres before and I hear that it can make a bigger difference than I thought.

LaChapelle 583s and Gama discrete sounded good on everything.

The differences between all of the preamps seemed small on female vox and big on acoustic guitar.

I tended to like more midrangey pres on electic guitar but I didn't like them on anything else (such as P1, Biz and gama nickel).

I also really liked the MA5.

thanks James

[AllAboutTone]

Interesting, more votes are swinging toward the LaChapell, GAMA and the MA5, 4 me a lot of gear to pay down at the current time money wise but the GAMA is on my list to buy...i like it.

[Diegel]

I would still like to hear more comments on the BAE312a. I am curious why it is so overlooked. To me it sounds like every other preamp has some sort of effect on the sound yet the BAE 312a sounds very true to the source but still very forward. I think that it is perhaps it doesn't sound as full as some of the other preamps but I think that has more to do with the source. Like on the el. guitar it sounds like the source could use more bass with the bae312a whereas the other preamps sound like they are adding things to the source to make it sounds fuller. Same goes for everything else. It sounds like the lachapell is adding bass and warmth that isn't part of the source while the bae312a is leaving the source alone. So my question is what is the role of the preamp. Should the function of the preamp be to add this kind of warmth or is their another place in the signal chain or processing chain where this type of effect belongs.

[zvenx]

Not sure how you could know what sounds closest to the source unless you were there , you may have been if you were, forgive that last comment.
My take on the role of a pre-amp is depends on the type of music. I believe for pure Classical music you need a pre-amp that best represents the source. For me, ever other genre that I work with I want the pre-amp that sounds the best (whatever that means subjectively).
rsp

[Diegel]

Actually I wasn't there but I think I can still tell when sound is coming from the source or the gear. I think it is very obvious that the lachapell has an added effect to the sound. Sounds like warm tube sound. Doesn't sound like the source is right their in the room with you. I am not talking about wether it is desireable or not. Just about wether that should be the role of the preamp or some other piece of gear.

[lrieves]

Originally Posted by Diegel

Just about wether that should be the role of the preamp or some other piece of gear.

If you are asking for a rule to follow, there isn't one. The "role" of the preamp is actually to boost the signal of the microphone up to Line Level. everything after that is what gives us engineers a job. The reason there are so many different Preamps (besides the money market) is to give us the option. I think it is great that you have found a preamp that you would like to try, but sometimes you are going to record somebody with a thin sounding instrument and you will want to add some low end to the signal. the preamp would be a great place to do that after the mic.