HERE IT IS! The 500 Series Shootout Files! - Page 10

Skorch Trakz · 4th February 2009, 11:28 AM

reload please i wana hear this. someone please?

Kronos147 · 5th February 2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio_4346

Anybody have any idea where I can get the VSI M-1 Preamp module used in this test? It was my personal favorite for the electrical guitar. I tried the VSI website but with no luck.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: Gave a call to VSI Audio, discovered the M-1 has become the L-21 due to some model number confrontation with a John Hardy pre. I'm under the impression that these will be available fairly soon through their website or direct contact with VSI.

VSI Audio prototypes '800' series

Skorch Trakz · 6th February 2009, 11:43 AM

someone reload this motha ****a. i still want to hear

**James 'LA' Lugo** · 8th February 2009, 06:08 PM

Don't shoot...

Skorch Trakz · 18th February 2009, 04:03 AM

well load em up buddy

it feels like one of those good lookin girls who tease but wont give it up

but on a serious note i really want to hear if u can put it up

FadersmakmeHappy · 21st February 2009, 07:47 AM

Awesome post James!

I really liked the LaChapell a lot and am going to pick one up. I was stunned how much I liked it even on heavy guitars. Nice playing! I liked the Pacifica, Shadow Hills, and LaChapell. They captured the heaviness the low end the best.

My votes:
Female Vocals: 1. LaChapell 2.Avedis 3. Pacifica P1

Heavy Guitars: 1. Gama Hills Nickel 2. Pacifica 3. LaChapell

Had a tougher time hearing the others due to their frequency ranges and the other instruments.

Acoustic Guitar: No clear winner, but like the Gama, Lachappell, and Pacifica.

Male Vocals: 1. Avedis (Maybe just this guys voice) 2. Adesigns Gold 3. Gama Nickel

FadersmakmeHappy · 21st February 2009, 08:13 AM

Ok... I failed to listed to VSI on the heavy guitars. Holy...

Astromann · 22nd February 2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skorch Trakz

well load em up buddy

it feels like one of those good lookin girls who tease but wont give it up

but on a serious note i really want to hear if u can put it up

What are you possibly talking about?
James says everywhere that it is post 211
The files are here
HERE IT IS! The 500 Series Shootout Files!
POST #211...at the top of the page!!
If thats what you possibly mean.
Astro

Skorch Trakz · 23rd February 2009, 03:23 AM

yea thats the link i wanted. sorry didnt catch where it was..

seemed like buzz elixir and lachapelle 583s, 5843v kicked a lot of ass. i like those 3 the best.

Myth Muzik · 24th February 2009, 01:20 AM

my picks.

acoustic:
1) elixir
2) lachapell 583s

female vox:
1) lachapell 583s
2) purple biz
3) gama nickel

male vox:
1) lachapell 583s
2) purple biz

hard guitars:
1) lachapell 583s

im surprised none of you guys picked purple biz. i am pretty new to the 500 series & recording but i liked their sound. ma5 was ok, expected better. im very interested to hear the juggernaut.

cowrange · 4th March 2009, 07:58 PM

Finally got around to listening. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy the Red. Love it on everything except acoustic. I think it's cool how everybody picks different ones. Thanks Lugo!

pan60 · 4th March 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowrange

Finally got around to listening. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy the Red. Love it on everything except acoustic. I think it's cool how everybody picks different ones. Thanks Lugo!

i am still jonesing for a EM-RED

old_skul · 13th August 2009, 08:23 PM

I got a lunchbox a few months back and put an A-Designs Red and Blue in it, based on a lot of feedback from this thread. Thanks guys!

mortimersnerdy · 13th August 2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_skul

I got a lunchbox a few months back and put an A-Designs Red and Blue in it, based on a lot of feedback from this thread. Thanks guys!

If you need a second 'Blue' I have one FS.

Voltiac Punch · 19th September 2009, 10:55 PM

After listening to all the files a few times. I have to ask. Does any one hear that the BAE 312 maintains the Api tone yet has a very smooth middle. WOW!!! What a great all around pre. Also the ma5 is nothing short of AMAZING on every source. I have these pre's with an Api 512c on the way. I cant wait!!!! Thanks for the post.

che_guitarra · 22nd December 2009, 03:07 PM

Mr Lugo, you are the man!! I'll forever remember you as a 'real' gearslut! I mean - a REAL gear slut!!! ha ha.

For what I do - it made me realize what a great purchase my Pacifica was (P-1... whatever). I was very keen to hear the MA5 Neve-y type thing everyone hypes on guitars and vox, but after hearing the results I think i'll hold my money - probably for more Pacifica input options.

Great clips, I appreciate the effort put in.

nick-the-sax · 22nd December 2009, 06:45 PM

i'm amazed how good the MA5 sounds!

and i always thought that the pre doesn't make that much difference. i'm now eating my words. the acoustic guitar alone shows up masssive differences in how it sits in the mix. the Pants and MA5 seems to fit just beautifully.

i'm a fan.

Tonear · 1st January 2010, 03:34 AM

Thanks for this shootout. Terrific work.
I see I'm a little late to this party, and I didn't have the patience to read through hundreds of posts. But I have a couple questions, and forgive me if it has been answered already.

On the female vocals, is that all one performance mult'd to all those different preamps and onto their own tracks? Or did she re-sing each pass for each preamp?

It is an important answer when judging equipment. Because as you know, there are slight differences in level(I know how hard it is too match them all), louder always sounds better. Also, her performance could have been different, or she moved an inch, which as you know will change the sound at the mic.

If that was all one performance, that helps.
Thanks, Tonear

Kronos147 · 10th January 2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonear

On the female vocals, is that all one performance mult'd to all those different preamps and onto their own tracks? Or did she re-sing each pass for each preamp?

Everything was tracked individually. I spoke with Avedis after the shootout and we spoke about possible doing another shootout with other instruments using his mult box. It still has yet to happen.

Tonear · 11th January 2010, 04:05 AM

Well, that's interesting that all these preamps were recorded on different takes.

For multiple reasons, the results of this shootout are suspect.

First, a singer warms up, peaks, and tires out in much less time than it takes to get through all these preamps. During that times the tone of their voice will change. Even if each was only one take apiece.

If the preamps for the guitars and were being changed at the same time the singers were singing, you've skewed the test even more by changing what they were hearing in the headphone from other instruments.

An acoustic guitar(and vocal) is so sensitive to mic placement that moving even a half inch will yield a different tone. It is almost impossible to get the exact same tone on consecutive takes even when using the same gear, with the player nailed down to a chair.

No less important is the fact that the performers are part of the experiment. Their playing and singing is dynamic, and changes on each take based on what they hear in the headphones or speakers. A slight differences in level and tone will make them perform differently.

You could take that last point as an positive, as in, "The singer was more into it with xxx preamp," so the different take and different tone of the preamp might give you a real world look at which preamp will get you a better recording(and performance).

The only accurate way to do this test is to have all preamps multed to their own tracks, all recorded in the same performance. Each instrument should be performed separately. That will give you an accurate comparison between the tone and response of each preamp. Then you can judge the differences.

I've done these same kind of shootouts, sometimes over a period of weeks. I know they are not completely fair, but since I don't have all the equipment there at the same time, and lack the ability to mult into many tracks, I do what I can and take it with a grain of salt. It is all we can do to judge our equipment.

Still, I appreciate the huge amount of time and effort it took to undertake this shootout and post it for us. I'll just say that in most cases, the differences in tone between preamps was much less than the differences in tone created from alternate performances.

John

Kronos147 · 13th January 2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonear

Results are suspect

John

Ya get what you pay for!

I think the point is with any shootout is that it is a basic reference and you should still be doing it for yourself in your situation to see what works best for you.

**James 'LA' Lugo** · 14th January 2010, 11:19 PM

No matter what the take is I can still hear the basic sound of the pres, we did our best. Be sure I WILL NEVER do this again for gearslutz. It was a huge undertaking and cost me a lot of money and time. I'll keep my energy on other things. Engineers and their negativity, it strangles this place. If you think you can do better then do it. PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Not one nay sayer has ever done this, it's all talk. This is still better then endless pages of opinions by many people with agendas.

zvenx · 14th January 2010, 11:36 PM

Sorry that it went this way James. I just want to say thanks again. You allowed me to hear many pieces of equipment that I would never have living in Jamaica, and I still have one piece of gear to buy that I heard in the shootout and will buy because of that shootout.
thanks again,
rsp

Tonear · 15th January 2010, 01:22 AM

I'm very appreciative and thankful for the huge amount of work this took. Even to do it for yourself is alot of work. And then to post it all on GS, very generous of you. And it made alot of people happy. Not to mention a very popular thread.
John

8th February 2009, 06:08 PM	#274
James 'LA' Lugo Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,976	MP3's ARE IN POST #211 Don't shoot... __________________ Vocal Asylum, 818.259.0190 North Hollywood, CA http://www.JamesLugo.com http://www.WritingGiants.com http://www.myspace.com/jameslugo Clients Include: The Smashing Pumpkins, 311, A Fine Frenzy, The Veronica's, American Idol My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/jameslugo

21st February 2009, 07:47 AM	#276
FadersmakmeHappy Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 401	Awesome post James! I really liked the LaChapell a lot and am going to pick one up. I was stunned how much I liked it even on heavy guitars. Nice playing! I liked the Pacifica, Shadow Hills, and LaChapell. They captured the heaviness the low end the best. My votes: Female Vocals: 1. LaChapell 2.Avedis 3. Pacifica P1 Heavy Guitars: 1. Gama Hills Nickel 2. Pacifica 3. LaChapell Had a tougher time hearing the others due to their frequency ranges and the other instruments. Acoustic Guitar: No clear winner, but like the Gama, Lachappell, and Pacifica. Male Vocals: 1. Avedis (Maybe just this guys voice) 2. Adesigns Gold 3. Gama Nickel __________________

21st February 2009, 08:13 AM	#277
FadersmakmeHappy Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 401	Ok... I failed to listed to VSI on the heavy guitars. Holy... __________________

19th September 2009, 10:55 PM	#285
Voltiac Punch Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20	BAE is for me. After listening to all the files a few times. I have to ask. Does any one hear that the BAE 312 maintains the Api tone yet has a very smooth middle. WOW!!! What a great all around pre. Also the ma5 is nothing short of AMAZING on every source. I have these pre's with an Api 512c on the way. I cant wait!!!! Thanks for the post.

22nd December 2009, 06:45 PM	#287
nick-the-sax Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,194	i'm amazed how good the MA5 sounds! and i always thought that the pre doesn't make that much difference. i'm now eating my words. the acoustic guitar alone shows up masssive differences in how it sits in the mix. the Pants and MA5 seems to fit just beautifully. i'm a fan. __________________ My new site: www.hoppermusic.com *Thanks Scattamah!!!* ***and i'll record sax for your tracks

4th February 2009, 11:28 AM	#271
Skorch Trakz Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 159	reload please i wana hear this. someone please?

6th February 2009, 11:43 AM	#273
Skorch Trakz Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 159	someone reload this motha ****a. i still want to hear

18th February 2009, 04:03 AM	#275
Skorch Trakz Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 159	well load em up buddy it feels like one of those good lookin girls who tease but wont give it up but on a serious note i really want to hear if u can put it up

23rd February 2009, 03:23 AM	#279
Skorch Trakz Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 159	yea thats the link i wanted. sorry didnt catch where it was.. seemed like buzz elixir and lachapelle 583s, 5843v kicked a lot of ass. i like those 3 the best.

24th February 2009, 01:20 AM	#280
Myth Muzik Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1	my picks. acoustic: 1) elixir 2) lachapell 583s female vox: 1) lachapell 583s 2) purple biz 3) gama nickel male vox: 1) lachapell 583s 2) purple biz hard guitars: 1) lachapell 583s im surprised none of you guys picked purple biz. i am pretty new to the 500 series & recording but i liked their sound. ma5 was ok, expected better. im very interested to hear the juggernaut.

4th March 2009, 07:58 PM	#281
cowrange Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 87	Finally got around to listening. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy the Red. Love it on everything except acoustic. I think it's cool how everybody picks different ones. Thanks Lugo!

13th August 2009, 08:23 PM	#283
old_skul Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 68	I got a lunchbox a few months back and put an A-Designs Red and Blue in it, based on a lot of feedback from this thread. Thanks guys!

22nd December 2009, 03:07 PM	#286
che_guitarra Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane, Oz Posts: 151	Mr Lugo, you are the man!! I'll forever remember you as a 'real' gearslut! I mean - a REAL gear slut!!! ha ha. For what I do - it made me realize what a great purchase my Pacifica was (P-1... whatever). I was very keen to hear the MA5 Neve-y type thing everyone hypes on guitars and vox, but after hearing the results I think i'll hold my money - probably for more Pacifica input options. Great clips, I appreciate the effort put in.

1st January 2010, 03:34 AM	#288
Tonear Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 40	Thanks for this shootout. Terrific work. I see I'm a little late to this party, and I didn't have the patience to read through hundreds of posts. But I have a couple questions, and forgive me if it has been answered already. On the female vocals, is that all one performance mult'd to all those different preamps and onto their own tracks? Or did she re-sing each pass for each preamp? It is an important answer when judging equipment. Because as you know, there are slight differences in level(I know how hard it is too match them all), louder always sounds better. Also, her performance could have been different, or she moved an inch, which as you know will change the sound at the mic. If that was all one performance, that helps. Thanks, Tonear

11th January 2010, 04:05 AM	#290
Tonear Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 40	Results are suspect Well, that's interesting that all these preamps were recorded on different takes. For multiple reasons, the results of this shootout are suspect. First, a singer warms up, peaks, and tires out in much less time than it takes to get through all these preamps. During that times the tone of their voice will change. Even if each was only one take apiece. If the preamps for the guitars and were being changed at the same time the singers were singing, you've skewed the test even more by changing what they were hearing in the headphone from other instruments. An acoustic guitar(and vocal) is so sensitive to mic placement that moving even a half inch will yield a different tone. It is almost impossible to get the exact same tone on consecutive takes even when using the same gear, with the player nailed down to a chair. No less important is the fact that the performers are part of the experiment. Their playing and singing is dynamic, and changes on each take based on what they hear in the headphones or speakers. A slight differences in level and tone will make them perform differently. You could take that last point as an positive, as in, "The singer was more into it with xxx preamp," so the different take and different tone of the preamp might give you a real world look at which preamp will get you a better recording(and performance). The only accurate way to do this test is to have all preamps multed to their own tracks, all recorded in the same performance. Each instrument should be performed separately. That will give you an accurate comparison between the tone and response of each preamp. Then you can judge the differences. I've done these same kind of shootouts, sometimes over a period of weeks. I know they are not completely fair, but since I don't have all the equipment there at the same time, and lack the ability to mult into many tracks, I do what I can and take it with a grain of salt. It is all we can do to judge our equipment. Still, I appreciate the huge amount of time and effort it took to undertake this shootout and post it for us. I'll just say that in most cases, the differences in tone between preamps was much less than the differences in tone created from alternate performances. John

14th January 2010, 11:19 PM	#292
James 'LA' Lugo Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,976	No matter what the take is I can still hear the basic sound of the pres, we did our best. Be sure I WILL NEVER do this again for gearslutz. It was a huge undertaking and cost me a lot of money and time. I'll keep my energy on other things. Engineers and their negativity, it strangles this place. If you think you can do better then do it. PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Not one nay sayer has ever done this, it's all talk. This is still better then endless pages of opinions by many people with agendas. __________________ Vocal Asylum, 818.259.0190 North Hollywood, CA http://www.JamesLugo.com http://www.WritingGiants.com http://www.myspace.com/jameslugo Clients Include: The Smashing Pumpkins, 311, A Fine Frenzy, The Veronica's, American Idol My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/jameslugo

14th January 2010, 11:36 PM	#293
zvenx Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Posts: 523	Sorry that it went this way James. I just want to say thanks again. You allowed me to hear many pieces of equipment that I would never have living in Jamaica, and I still have one piece of gear to buy that I heard in the shootout and will buy because of that shootout. thanks again, rsp

15th January 2010, 01:22 AM	#294
Tonear Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 40	I'm very appreciative and thankful for the huge amount of work this took. Even to do it for yourself is alot of work. And then to post it all on GS, very generous of you. And it made alot of people happy. Not to mention a very popular thread. John

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