HERE IT IS! The 500 Series Shootout Files! - Page 10

**James Lugo** · 8th February 2009

Don't shoot...

Skorch Trakz · 18th February 2009

well load em up buddy

it feels like one of those good lookin girls who tease but wont give it up

but on a serious note i really want to hear if u can put it up thumbsup

FadersmakmeHappy · 21st February 2009

Awesome post James!

I really liked the LaChapell a lot and am going to pick one up. I was stunned how much I liked it even on heavy guitars. Nice playing! I liked the Pacifica, Shadow Hills, and LaChapell. They captured the heaviness the low end the best.

My votes:
Female Vocals: 1. LaChapell 2.Avedis 3. Pacifica P1

Heavy Guitars: 1. Gama Hills Nickel 2. Pacifica 3. LaChapell

Had a tougher time hearing the others due to their frequency ranges and the other instruments.

Acoustic Guitar: No clear winner, but like the Gama, Lachappell, and Pacifica.

Male Vocals: 1. Avedis (Maybe just this guys voice) 2. Adesigns Gold 3. Gama Nickel

FadersmakmeHappy · 21st February 2009

Ok... I failed to listed to VSI on the heavy guitars. Holy...

Astromann · 22nd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skorch Trakz

well load em up buddy

it feels like one of those good lookin girls who tease but wont give it up

but on a serious note i really want to hear if u can put it up thumbsup

What are you possibly talking about?
James says everywhere that it is post 211
The files are here
HERE IT IS! The 500 Series Shootout Files!
POST #211...at the top of the page!!
If thats what you possibly mean.
Astro

Skorch Trakz · 23rd February 2009

yea thats the link i wanted. sorry didnt catch where it was..

seemed like buzz elixir and lachapelle 583s, 5843v kicked a lot of ass. i like those 3 the best.

Myth Muzik · 24th February 2009

my picks.

acoustic:
1) elixir
2) lachapell 583s

female vox:
1) lachapell 583s
2) purple biz
3) gama nickel

male vox:
1) lachapell 583s
2) purple biz

hard guitars:
1) lachapell 583s

im surprised none of you guys picked purple biz. i am pretty new to the 500 series & recording but i liked their sound. ma5 was ok, expected better. im very interested to hear the juggernaut.

cowrange · 4th March 2009

Finally got around to listening. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy the Red. Love it on everything except acoustic. I think it's cool how everybody picks different ones. Thanks Lugo!

pan60 · 4th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowrange

Finally got around to listening. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy the Red. Love it on everything except acoustic. I think it's cool how everybody picks different ones. Thanks Lugo!

i am still jonesing for a EM-RED

old_skul · 13th August 2009

I got a lunchbox a few months back and put an A-Designs Red and Blue in it, based on a lot of feedback from this thread. Thanks guys!

mortimersnerdy · 13th August 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_skul

I got a lunchbox a few months back and put an A-Designs Red and Blue in it, based on a lot of feedback from this thread. Thanks guys!

If you need a second 'Blue' I have one FS.

Voltiac Punch · 19th September 2009

After listening to all the files a few times. I have to ask. Does any one hear that the BAE 312 maintains the Api tone yet has a very smooth middle. WOW!!! What a great all around pre. Also the ma5 is nothing short of AMAZING on every source. I have these pre's with an Api 512c on the way. I cant wait!!!! Thanks for the post.

che_guitarra · 22nd December 2009

Mr Lugo, you are the man!! I'll forever remember you as a 'real' gearslut! I mean - a REAL gear slut!!! ha ha.

For what I do - it made me realize what a great purchase my Pacifica was (P-1... whatever). I was very keen to hear the MA5 Neve-y type thing everyone hypes on guitars and vox, but after hearing the results I think i'll hold my money - probably for more Pacifica input options.

Great clips, I appreciate the effort put in.

nick-the-sax · 22nd December 2009

i'm amazed how good the MA5 sounds!

and i always thought that the pre doesn't make that much difference. i'm now eating my words. the acoustic guitar alone shows up masssive differences in how it sits in the mix. the Pants and MA5 seems to fit just beautifully.

i'm a fan.

Tonear · 1st January 2010

Thanks for this shootout. Terrific work.
I see I'm a little late to this party, and I didn't have the patience to read through hundreds of posts. But I have a couple questions, and forgive me if it has been answered already.

On the female vocals, is that all one performance mult'd to all those different preamps and onto their own tracks? Or did she re-sing each pass for each preamp?

It is an important answer when judging equipment. Because as you know, there are slight differences in level(I know how hard it is too match them all), louder always sounds better. Also, her performance could have been different, or she moved an inch, which as you know will change the sound at the mic.

If that was all one performance, that helps.
Thanks, Tonear

Kronos147 · 10th January 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonear

On the female vocals, is that all one performance mult'd to all those different preamps and onto their own tracks? Or did she re-sing each pass for each preamp?

Everything was tracked individually. I spoke with Avedis after the shootout and we spoke about possible doing another shootout with other instruments using his mult box. It still has yet to happen.

Tonear · 11th January 2010

Well, that's interesting that all these preamps were recorded on different takes.

For multiple reasons, the results of this shootout are suspect.

First, a singer warms up, peaks, and tires out in much less time than it takes to get through all these preamps. During that times the tone of their voice will change. Even if each was only one take apiece.

If the preamps for the guitars and were being changed at the same time the singers were singing, you've skewed the test even more by changing what they were hearing in the headphone from other instruments.

An acoustic guitar(and vocal) is so sensitive to mic placement that moving even a half inch will yield a different tone. It is almost impossible to get the exact same tone on consecutive takes even when using the same gear, with the player nailed down to a chair.

No less important is the fact that the performers are part of the experiment. Their playing and singing is dynamic, and changes on each take based on what they hear in the headphones or speakers. A slight differences in level and tone will make them perform differently.

You could take that last point as an positive, as in, "The singer was more into it with xxx preamp," so the different take and different tone of the preamp might give you a real world look at which preamp will get you a better recording(and performance).

The only accurate way to do this test is to have all preamps multed to their own tracks, all recorded in the same performance. Each instrument should be performed separately. That will give you an accurate comparison between the tone and response of each preamp. Then you can judge the differences.

I've done these same kind of shootouts, sometimes over a period of weeks. I know they are not completely fair, but since I don't have all the equipment there at the same time, and lack the ability to mult into many tracks, I do what I can and take it with a grain of salt. It is all we can do to judge our equipment.

Still, I appreciate the huge amount of time and effort it took to undertake this shootout and post it for us. I'll just say that in most cases, the differences in tone between preamps was much less than the differences in tone created from alternate performances.

John

Kronos147 · 13th January 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonear

Results are suspect

John

Ya get what you pay for!

I think the point is with any shootout is that it is a basic reference and you should still be doing it for yourself in your situation to see what works best for you.

**James Lugo** · 14th January 2010

No matter what the take is I can still hear the basic sound of the pres, we did our best. Be sure I WILL NEVER do this again for gearslutz. It was a huge undertaking and cost me a lot of money and time. I'll keep my energy on other things. Engineers and their negativity, it strangles this place. If you think you can do better then do it. PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Not one nay sayer has ever done this, it's all talk. This is still better then endless pages of opinions by many people with agendas.

zvenx · 14th January 2010

Sorry that it went this way James. I just want to say thanks again. You allowed me to hear many pieces of equipment that I would never have living in Jamaica, and I still have one piece of gear to buy that I heard in the shootout and will buy because of that shootout.
thanks again,
rsp

Tonear · 15th January 2010

I'm very appreciative and thankful for the huge amount of work this took. Even to do it for yourself is alot of work. And then to post it all on GS, very generous of you. And it made alot of people happy. Not to mention a very popular thread.
John

billyindonesia · 4th May 2010

thumbsup James Lugo thanks a lot man.. you are the Lord of the Gearslutz

andy3 · 8th May 2010

Thanks!

andy3 · 8th May 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by james 'la' lugo

i did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am lord of gearslutz. Just kidding. Now you guys can stop talking s**t about me.

enjoy!

James

Thank you

unmasked truth · 17th May 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

No matter what the take is I can still hear the basic sound of the pres, we did our best. Be sure I WILL NEVER do this again for gearslutz. It was a huge undertaking and cost me a lot of money and time. I'll keep my energy on other things. Engineers and their negativity, it strangles this place. If you think you can do better then do it. PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Not one nay sayer has ever done this, it's all talk. This is still better then endless pages of opinions by many people with agendas.

most of us appreciate your effort. dont trip off some negativity. after listening, got the 583s. sounds great on everything. thanks again.

andy3 · 23rd May 2010

Is there the great river in the list?

Please answer me!

amost · 16th September 2010

Later that day...damn I just saw a link to this.

Unbelievable effort there guy...thanks for posting!.

I. Am. Not. Worthy.

Magic Alex · 16th September 2010

James deserves a title better than 'Lord'. Not quite 'God', but he exceeded 'Lord'!

For anyone who wants all samples in one swoop, here it is in a zip file...

https://public.me.com/themiff_a/500-Series.zip

Roman English · 9th October 2010

Lots of thanks for lots of usefull information! thumbsup

artbincredible · 14th October 2010

Dude this was SOOOOO helpful. I'm DEFINITELY getting the BAE 312's now! YOU ARE THE MAN!thumbsupthumbsup

8th February 2009	#271
James Lugo Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 6,702 Thread Starter	MP3's ARE IN POST #211 Don't shoot...

21st February 2009	#273
FadersmakmeHappy Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 420	Awesome post James! I really liked the LaChapell a lot and am going to pick one up. I was stunned how much I liked it even on heavy guitars. Nice playing! I liked the Pacifica, Shadow Hills, and LaChapell. They captured the heaviness the low end the best. My votes: Female Vocals: 1. LaChapell 2.Avedis 3. Pacifica P1 Heavy Guitars: 1. Gama Hills Nickel 2. Pacifica 3. LaChapell Had a tougher time hearing the others due to their frequency ranges and the other instruments. Acoustic Guitar: No clear winner, but like the Gama, Lachappell, and Pacifica. Male Vocals: 1. Avedis (Maybe just this guys voice) 2. Adesigns Gold 3. Gama Nickel __________________

19th September 2009	#282
Voltiac Punch 3 + infractions, forum membership suspended. Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 66	BAE is for me. After listening to all the files a few times. I have to ask. Does any one hear that the BAE 312 maintains the Api tone yet has a very smooth middle. WOW!!! What a great all around pre. Also the ma5 is nothing short of AMAZING on every source. I have these pre's with an Api 512c on the way. I cant wait!!!! Thanks for the post.

22nd December 2009	#284
nick-the-sax Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,379	i'm amazed how good the MA5 sounds! and i always thought that the pre doesn't make that much difference. i'm now eating my words. the acoustic guitar alone shows up masssive differences in how it sits in the mix. the Pants and MA5 seems to fit just beautifully. i'm a fan. __________________ My new site: www.hoppermusic.com *Thanks Scattamah!!!* ...my stock-music page: http://www.istockphoto.com/nicksamuel ***and i'll record sax for your tracks

11th January 2010	#287
Tonear Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 60	Results are suspect Well, that's interesting that all these preamps were recorded on different takes. For multiple reasons, the results of this shootout are suspect. First, a singer warms up, peaks, and tires out in much less time than it takes to get through all these preamps. During that times the tone of their voice will change. Even if each was only one take apiece. If the preamps for the guitars and were being changed at the same time the singers were singing, you've skewed the test even more by changing what they were hearing in the headphone from other instruments. An acoustic guitar(and vocal) is so sensitive to mic placement that moving even a half inch will yield a different tone. It is almost impossible to get the exact same tone on consecutive takes even when using the same gear, with the player nailed down to a chair. No less important is the fact that the performers are part of the experiment. Their playing and singing is dynamic, and changes on each take based on what they hear in the headphones or speakers. A slight differences in level and tone will make them perform differently. You could take that last point as an positive, as in, "The singer was more into it with xxx preamp," so the different take and different tone of the preamp might give you a real world look at which preamp will get you a better recording(and performance). The only accurate way to do this test is to have all preamps multed to their own tracks, all recorded in the same performance. Each instrument should be performed separately. That will give you an accurate comparison between the tone and response of each preamp. Then you can judge the differences. I've done these same kind of shootouts, sometimes over a period of weeks. I know they are not completely fair, but since I don't have all the equipment there at the same time, and lack the ability to mult into many tracks, I do what I can and take it with a grain of salt. It is all we can do to judge our equipment. Still, I appreciate the huge amount of time and effort it took to undertake this shootout and post it for us. I'll just say that in most cases, the differences in tone between preamps was much less than the differences in tone created from alternate performances. John

18th February 2009	#272
Skorch Trakz Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 159	well load em up buddy it feels like one of those good lookin girls who tease but wont give it up but on a serious note i really want to hear if u can put it up thumbsup

21st February 2009	#274
FadersmakmeHappy Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 420	Ok... I failed to listed to VSI on the heavy guitars. Holy...

23rd February 2009	#276
Skorch Trakz Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 159	yea thats the link i wanted. sorry didnt catch where it was.. seemed like buzz elixir and lachapelle 583s, 5843v kicked a lot of ass. i like those 3 the best.

24th February 2009	#277
Myth Muzik Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1	my picks. acoustic: 1) elixir 2) lachapell 583s female vox: 1) lachapell 583s 2) purple biz 3) gama nickel male vox: 1) lachapell 583s 2) purple biz hard guitars: 1) lachapell 583s im surprised none of you guys picked purple biz. i am pretty new to the 500 series & recording but i liked their sound. ma5 was ok, expected better. im very interested to hear the juggernaut.

4th March 2009	#278
cowrange Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 154	Finally got around to listening. Looks like I'm gonna have to go buy the Red. Love it on everything except acoustic. I think it's cool how everybody picks different ones. Thanks Lugo!

13th August 2009	#280
old_skul Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 73	I got a lunchbox a few months back and put an A-Designs Red and Blue in it, based on a lot of feedback from this thread. Thanks guys!

22nd December 2009	#283
che_guitarra Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Perth, Oz Posts: 227	Mr Lugo, you are the man!! I'll forever remember you as a 'real' gearslut! I mean - a REAL gear slut!!! ha ha. For what I do - it made me realize what a great purchase my Pacifica was (P-1... whatever). I was very keen to hear the MA5 Neve-y type thing everyone hypes on guitars and vox, but after hearing the results I think i'll hold my money - probably for more Pacifica input options. Great clips, I appreciate the effort put in.

1st January 2010	#285
Tonear Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 60	Thanks for this shootout. Terrific work. I see I'm a little late to this party, and I didn't have the patience to read through hundreds of posts. But I have a couple questions, and forgive me if it has been answered already. On the female vocals, is that all one performance mult'd to all those different preamps and onto their own tracks? Or did she re-sing each pass for each preamp? It is an important answer when judging equipment. Because as you know, there are slight differences in level(I know how hard it is too match them all), louder always sounds better. Also, her performance could have been different, or she moved an inch, which as you know will change the sound at the mic. If that was all one performance, that helps. Thanks, Tonear

14th January 2010	#289
James Lugo Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 6,702 Thread Starter	No matter what the take is I can still hear the basic sound of the pres, we did our best. Be sure I WILL NEVER do this again for gearslutz. It was a huge undertaking and cost me a lot of money and time. I'll keep my energy on other things. Engineers and their negativity, it strangles this place. If you think you can do better then do it. PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Not one nay sayer has ever done this, it's all talk. This is still better then endless pages of opinions by many people with agendas. __________________ Vocal Asylum & Hemispheres Recording - http://www.sslmixingonline.com/ http://www.HemispheresRecording.com - http://www.youtube.com/user/jameslugo Now affiliated with Sound Pure Pro Audio & Guitars / Boutique Amps

14th January 2010	#290
zvenx Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Posts: 863	Sorry that it went this way James. I just want to say thanks again. You allowed me to hear many pieces of equipment that I would never have living in Jamaica, and I still have one piece of gear to buy that I heard in the shootout and will buy because of that shootout. thanks again, rsp

15th January 2010	#291
Tonear Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 60	I'm very appreciative and thankful for the huge amount of work this took. Even to do it for yourself is alot of work. And then to post it all on GS, very generous of you. And it made alot of people happy. Not to mention a very popular thread. John

4th May 2010	#292
billyindonesia Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 118	thumbsup James Lugo thanks a lot man.. you are the Lord of the Gearslutz __________________ concern on low freq.. please..

8th May 2010	#293
andy3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 587	where Thanks!

23rd May 2010	#296
andy3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 587	great river Is there the great river in the list? Please answer me!

16th September 2010	#297
amost Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,037	Later that day...damn I just saw a link to this. Unbelievable effort there guy...thanks for posting!. I. Am. Not. Worthy. __________________ Me at

16th September 2010	#298
Magic Alex Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Teresina, Brazil Posts: 239	James deserves a title better than 'Lord'. Not quite 'God', but he exceeded 'Lord'! For anyone who wants all samples in one swoop, here it is in a zip file... https://public.me.com/themiff_a/500-Series.zip __________________ Use your heart to make decisions. Use your head to fix your mistakes.

9th October 2010	#299
Roman English Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Petersburg Posts: 22	Lots of thanks for lots of usefull information! thumbsup

14th October 2010	#300
artbincredible Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Detroit Posts: 7	Thanks Dude this was SOOOOO helpful. I'm DEFINITELY getting the BAE 312's now! YOU ARE THE MAN!thumbsupthumbsup

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