Se Gemeni II vs. AKG c414b xlII gold

earthone · 17th April 2008, 03:38 AM

Greetings gear slutz!

Got the Gemeni II on the 7 day loan and I've begun my tests...
Today's session was an R+B/Soul singer..

In the right corner:
akg c414b xlII $800-1000
in the left corner:
se gemeni II $1200 dual tube pre

The two mics were both run through an Avalon 737sp with the EQ out (flat) and only the slightest compression. (-1db at peaks)

I know these are different styles of mic and only the gemeni is powered by tubes, but they are both alleged high quality vocal mics (for the price) and in the same price range.

First off, see if you can tell which is which? Which do you like better?

www.earthonestudio.com/sample1.wav
www.earthonestudio.com/sample2.wav
www.earthonestudio.com/sample1.1.wav
www.earthonestudio.com/sample1.2.wav

MadGuitrst · 17th April 2008, 08:00 AM

sample1.wav = akg c414b
sample2.wav = se gemeni II
sample1.1.wav = akg c414b
sample1.2.wav = se gemeni II

What do I win?

Honestly, I didn't care for either of them too much. Sorry........
Maybe try something with more mid presence....maybe a 251 type of mic.

PeterSturm · 17th April 2008, 12:00 PM

I don't think that you win something, because it is really obious that sample1 and sample 1.1 are NOT the same microphone ;)

I really like sample1, because it's brigther than sample2, but both sound just great!

macleodgrant · 17th April 2008, 02:24 PM

hmm, i prefer sample 1 and 1.1

i reckon i'd have to eq less with those samples to make it fit in the mix

earthone · 17th April 2008, 04:32 PM

actually sample 1 and 1.1 are the same mic, just different parts of the vocal.

Peter, this doesn't make you wrong, I think this points out how much the angle of the voice and position of the singer towards the mic can affect the tone.

will reveal the mics after a few more guesses...

also will be posting some acoustic guitar comparisons.

otobianki74 · 17th April 2008, 04:42 PM

gemini 1 & 1.1, akg 2 & 1.2.

otz

earthone · 17th April 2008, 05:04 PM

hey folks, remember along with guessing to tell me which one you like better and why, I value your opinions..

thanks!

PeterSturm · 17th April 2008, 07:18 PM

I am really sorry for my wrong guess, but can you please double check it? 2 and 1.2 sound totally different to me. May be it is because the compression (which again sounds a lot more than 1 db in the loudest part).

Or may be my ears are totally worthless.

And I forgot to say thank you very much for this comparison!

earthone · 17th April 2008, 08:27 PM

peter don't be sorry for the wrong guess, you'll hear it, check on some loudspeakers with a lot of volume.

so the results
otobianki74 picked correctly..

1 and 1.1 are the gemeni

2 and 2.1 are the akg

the gemeni def has to my ears a narrow upper mid scoop in the 7k-10k range. When listening to it repeatedly with my client massively preferred the AKG. I was hoping the new mic would beat it hands down, but because it didn't for this one singer doesn't mean it blows, it all ultimately depends on taste and the application. (Turns out other clients far prefered the Gemeni to the AKG)

I believe Se is a promising company that is thinking outside the box and I am looking forward to testing more of their products.
Perhaps the single tube z600a will fair better as it is a transformerless output and has selectable polar patterns.

I will conduct some more tests, perhaps you have to be careful how hard you gain this mic with all its tubes, I may still change or alter my thoughts after more tests.

More samples to come.

otobianki74 · 17th April 2008, 10:23 PM

I use the gemini (I not II) a lot, and actually love it on vocals (male and female). it's also an amazing acoustic guitar mic and I've had much success on various other sources (flute, harmonica, drum room).

I tried the 414 a few times on vox and I'm just not a big fan personally... I kind of dig the sound tubes bring to the table.

long live le tube.

oto

earthone · 17th April 2008, 11:30 PM

Thanks Oto, you know your mic you identified it instantly and correct in the blind shootout, so there you go folks...a stoked Se Gemeni owner!!

Well i'm not dead set on returning this mic yet, but I will have to try the z600a to compare, another shootout will post.

About tonights shootout:

The famous reggae legend Bunny Wailer, Bob Marley's half brother and founding member of the Wailing Wailers has a daughter who lives in ATL/JA and performs
by the name CenC Love. She sounds really nice sometimes just her and an acoustic guitar, tonights showdown will be the same 2 mics, check it out late tonight/tomorrow.

Bless Up!

earthone · 18th April 2008, 06:08 AM

unfortunately, there was a bunch of musicians walking in the door when the AKG was being tested and this test was unscientific as can be, but over all it was the same deal, same mics. I'm starting to think that yesterday the gemeni was running in too hot, it wasn't clipping but the bar was going in to the yellow range on PT. So that would explain the fidelity loss, its actually a pretty clear mic, you can record a good distance away and still get a nice present sound. It is still consistently brighter than the AKG. Cenc described it as feeling more live and she could hear even the snot in her nose...
yet she too, like yesterday's crash test artist, prefer the AKG for their main use, and the gemeni for special use and effect.

IMO neither of these are perfect mics, but I am starting to enjoy the unique character of the Se Gemeni more today.
I hope to find something that really gets me excited as the perfect large diaphram condensor mic. suggestions?

here are the results of the shootout:

www.earthonestudio.com/cenCgemeni.wav
www.earthonestudio.com/cencAKG.wav

earthone · 23rd April 2008, 03:24 AM

i have to admit i really like this mic the more I get to know it, i had to retract my earlier statements on the mics fidelity after more thorough testing because I don't want to mis represent this mic which is definitely a quality mic whose fidelity and vibe is competitive with other mics in its price class.

If the singer gets suddenly louder or delivers a verse at the wrong angle it sounds boxy in my booth which is not super large width wise, so the combination of the mics single wide polar pattern and my booth are both to blame for that. So the SE picks up more reflection off walls and such but only when the singer is really getting excited and not aiming directly at it (yes my walls in the booth are insulated with foam all the way) So even in my narrow booth as long as you can aim, the gemeni sounds crisp.

I know there are many on this forum who have mic closets worth more than my life, and care not for mics in this price range. But for those of you who are looking for an impressive mic in terms of look, build, and some retro sonic vibe at a fair price this one has got it!

Used the Gemeni II across an entire vocal track today featuring Erica Newell, back up singer for Damian/Stephen Marley working on her solo album at my studio and she had no complaints.

She liked the brightness, reminded her of the clearness of a blue mic which she always refers too, and I have found this mic like most, sounds much better when running it quiet, super clean gain in to the DAW. It seem especially on this mic with two active tubes inside you have to be careful about pushing an even volume. Sudden spikes in singing it did not react as smoothly as my transformer less AKG mic.

It really makes breaths louder on vocals and that is the sort of vintage vibe that one can grow to love on this mic.

Wish I had some more tube mics to shoot this out with, like a peluso or something in the same price range.

I'd like to do a comparison with their single tube mic version next.

This is a great mic and really worth trying out if you're interested. I guess my original skepticism has diminished, and I'm growing to appreciate what this mic can do. Wish I had more than 7 Days now!!!

cheers,
alex

moothemagiccow · 27th April 2008, 01:55 AM

I think the difference was dramatic and a bit obvious. I don't think I'll ever purchase something from SE after hearing these and a few other shootouts.

soundchaser59 · 9th May 2008, 01:05 AM

Well, sorry to come in after the fact, but I have a 414 so I had to listen.

And I guessed right. I dont know why, but I had the feeling that #1 sounded like a tube response....

bino_5150 · 9th May 2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

sample1.wav = akg c414b
sample2.wav = se gemeni II
sample1.1.wav = akg c414b
sample1.2.wav = se gemeni II

What do I win?

Honestly, I didn't care for either of them too much. Sorry........
Maybe try something with more mid presence....maybe a 251 type of mic.

More than the XLII? Man, that would be honking at you lol

17th April 2008, 08:00 AM	#2
MadGuitrst Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: regional man of mystery Posts: 446	sample1.wav = akg c414b sample2.wav = se gemeni II sample1.1.wav = akg c414b sample1.2.wav = se gemeni II What do I win? Honestly, I didn't care for either of them too much. Sorry........ Maybe try something with more mid presence....maybe a 251 type of mic. __________________ The Madguitrst has left the building.......but not before commiting acts designed to offend the senses.

17th April 2008, 04:32 PM	#5
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	about the samples actually sample 1 and 1.1 are the same mic, just different parts of the vocal. Peter, this doesn't make you wrong, I think this points out how much the angle of the voice and position of the singer towards the mic can affect the tone. will reveal the mics after a few more guesses... also will be posting some acoustic guitar comparisons.

17th April 2008, 11:30 PM	#11
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	round 2 feat. Bunny Wailer's daughter "CenC Love" Thanks Oto, you know your mic you identified it instantly and correct in the blind shootout, so there you go folks...a stoked Se Gemeni owner!! Well i'm not dead set on returning this mic yet, but I will have to try the z600a to compare, another shootout will post. About tonights shootout: The famous reggae legend Bunny Wailer, Bob Marley's half brother and founding member of the Wailing Wailers has a daughter who lives in ATL/JA and performs by the name CenC Love. She sounds really nice sometimes just her and an acoustic guitar, tonights showdown will be the same 2 mics, check it out late tonight/tomorrow. Bless Up!

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17th April 2008, 03:38 AM	#1
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	Se Gemeni II vs. AKG c414b xlII gold Greetings gear slutz! Got the Gemeni II on the 7 day loan and I've begun my tests... Today's session was an R+B/Soul singer.. In the right corner: akg c414b xlII $800-1000 in the left corner: se gemeni II $1200 dual tube pre The two mics were both run through an Avalon 737sp with the EQ out (flat) and only the slightest compression. (-1db at peaks) I know these are different styles of mic and only the gemeni is powered by tubes, but they are both alleged high quality vocal mics (for the price) and in the same price range. First off, see if you can tell which is which? Which do you like better? www.earthonestudio.com/sample1.wav www.earthonestudio.com/sample2.wav www.earthonestudio.com/sample1.1.wav www.earthonestudio.com/sample1.2.wav

17th April 2008, 12:00 PM	#3
PeterSturm Gear interested Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 21	I don't think that you win something, because it is really obious that sample1 and sample 1.1 are NOT the same microphone ;) I really like sample1, because it's brigther than sample2, but both sound just great!

17th April 2008, 02:24 PM	#4
macleodgrant Lives for gear Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,153	hmm, i prefer sample 1 and 1.1 i reckon i'd have to eq less with those samples to make it fit in the mix

17th April 2008, 04:42 PM	#6
otobianki74 Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 147	gemini 1 & 1.1, akg 2 & 1.2. otz

17th April 2008, 05:04 PM	#7
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	hey folks, remember along with guessing to tell me which one you like better and why, I value your opinions.. thanks!

17th April 2008, 07:18 PM	#8
PeterSturm Gear interested Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 21	I am really sorry for my wrong guess, but can you please double check it? 2 and 1.2 sound totally different to me. May be it is because the compression (which again sounds a lot more than 1 db in the loudest part). Or may be my ears are totally worthless. And I forgot to say thank you very much for this comparison!

17th April 2008, 08:27 PM	#9
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	peter don't be sorry for the wrong guess, you'll hear it, check on some loudspeakers with a lot of volume. so the results otobianki74 picked correctly.. 1 and 1.1 are the gemeni 2 and 2.1 are the akg the gemeni def has to my ears a narrow upper mid scoop in the 7k-10k range. When listening to it repeatedly with my client massively preferred the AKG. I was hoping the new mic would beat it hands down, but because it didn't for this one singer doesn't mean it blows, it all ultimately depends on taste and the application. (Turns out other clients far prefered the Gemeni to the AKG) I believe Se is a promising company that is thinking outside the box and I am looking forward to testing more of their products. Perhaps the single tube z600a will fair better as it is a transformerless output and has selectable polar patterns. I will conduct some more tests, perhaps you have to be careful how hard you gain this mic with all its tubes, I may still change or alter my thoughts after more tests. More samples to come.

17th April 2008, 10:23 PM	#10
otobianki74 Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 147	I use the gemini (I not II) a lot, and actually love it on vocals (male and female). it's also an amazing acoustic guitar mic and I've had much success on various other sources (flute, harmonica, drum room). I tried the 414 a few times on vox and I'm just not a big fan personally... I kind of dig the sound tubes bring to the table. long live le tube. oto

18th April 2008, 06:08 AM	#12
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	unfortunately, there was a bunch of musicians walking in the door when the AKG was being tested and this test was unscientific as can be, but over all it was the same deal, same mics. I'm starting to think that yesterday the gemeni was running in too hot, it wasn't clipping but the bar was going in to the yellow range on PT. So that would explain the fidelity loss, its actually a pretty clear mic, you can record a good distance away and still get a nice present sound. It is still consistently brighter than the AKG. Cenc described it as feeling more live and she could hear even the snot in her nose... yet she too, like yesterday's crash test artist, prefer the AKG for their main use, and the gemeni for special use and effect. IMO neither of these are perfect mics, but I am starting to enjoy the unique character of the Se Gemeni more today. I hope to find something that really gets me excited as the perfect large diaphram condensor mic. suggestions? here are the results of the shootout: www.earthonestudio.com/cenCgemeni.wav www.earthonestudio.com/cencAKG.wav

23rd April 2008, 03:24 AM	#13
earthone Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 13	i have to admit i really like this mic the more I get to know it, i had to retract my earlier statements on the mics fidelity after more thorough testing because I don't want to mis represent this mic which is definitely a quality mic whose fidelity and vibe is competitive with other mics in its price class. If the singer gets suddenly louder or delivers a verse at the wrong angle it sounds boxy in my booth which is not super large width wise, so the combination of the mics single wide polar pattern and my booth are both to blame for that. So the SE picks up more reflection off walls and such but only when the singer is really getting excited and not aiming directly at it (yes my walls in the booth are insulated with foam all the way) So even in my narrow booth as long as you can aim, the gemeni sounds crisp. I know there are many on this forum who have mic closets worth more than my life, and care not for mics in this price range. But for those of you who are looking for an impressive mic in terms of look, build, and some retro sonic vibe at a fair price this one has got it! Used the Gemeni II across an entire vocal track today featuring Erica Newell, back up singer for Damian/Stephen Marley working on her solo album at my studio and she had no complaints. She liked the brightness, reminded her of the clearness of a blue mic which she always refers too, and I have found this mic like most, sounds much better when running it quiet, super clean gain in to the DAW. It seem especially on this mic with two active tubes inside you have to be careful about pushing an even volume. Sudden spikes in singing it did not react as smoothly as my transformer less AKG mic. It really makes breaths louder on vocals and that is the sort of vintage vibe that one can grow to love on this mic. Wish I had some more tube mics to shoot this out with, like a peluso or something in the same price range. I'd like to do a comparison with their single tube mic version next. This is a great mic and really worth trying out if you're interested. I guess my original skepticism has diminished, and I'm growing to appreciate what this mic can do. Wish I had more than 7 Days now!!! cheers, alex

27th April 2008, 01:55 AM	#14
moothemagiccow Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2	I think the difference was dramatic and a bit obvious. I don't think I'll ever purchase something from SE after hearing these and a few other shootouts.

9th May 2008, 01:05 AM	#15
soundchaser59 Gear interested Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 10	Well, sorry to come in after the fact, but I have a 414 so I had to listen. And I guessed right. I dont know why, but I had the feeling that #1 sounded like a tube response....