SM57's Modified & Stock Tests

[PMoshay]

Hey Everyone,
Myself & Rich Tozzoli just recently did a test of SM57's side by side on guitar & drums that i wanted to share with you all.
I also put up a video on YouTube showing how we set up the test and the mic positions.
(1) SM57 Stock from Shure
(1) SM57 with Tab-Funkenwerks transformer
(1) SM57 with no transformer (totally removed)

Download .zip Protools 7 session/audio here (audio files also in folder - all 24bit/44.1k/BWF):
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Here's a video showing you how we did the testing:
YouTube - SM57's Modified & Stock Comparison

[PMoshay]

We also tested:

Focusrite ISA828 w/digital card
Focusrite ISA428 w/digital card
Focusrite ISA115HD (Late 80's model Pre w/eq)
Vintech 473
Neve 1066
ADL600
API512b
Discrete Plus

I will post a session soon comparing all of these units side by side only using the analog outs into a Digi192.

on this test i used a Neuman M49 mic with Acoustic guitar

[tone delux]

sounds cool.

[tone delux]

i'm looking forward to the comparisons with the focusrite ISA-828 and the ISA-115.

[PMoshay]

Under the Hood's of the ISA's

[tone delux]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

Under the Hood's of the ISA's

nice. which ones are your favorites?

[JoeyM]

PMoshay WOW thanks a million. In every case I either liked the transformerless one or the modded; never the stock SM57.

Looks like I'll be adding two SM57s to the locker soon.

[Chunky Karma]

Thank you for posting these. So far I have listened to the Crunchy guitar and Snare files. I was suprised at how close the transformerless and modded mics sounded. So far I have slighly preferred the transformerless 57.... thanks for saving me $80. Stock sounded not so great. I guess it's time to get out the wire cutters. Were these unidyne III's or the newer ones?

[PMoshay]

They were older ones...... i have new & old, i listened to them and they sounded pretty much the same.

Shure has changed the transformers over the years in their mics to be more compatible with the newer gear and the way that people have changed the way they use mics now.
There is much more mic splitting these days with TV and concert setups and even recording, so loading could get bad in old mics if you were splitting them 3 ways +, so Shure has changed transformers in later lines to address that issue.

I would not see that change as a bad thing....... but listen to your mic's and see what you like.

I did notice that my older Beta 58s did not sound as good in concert as Beta 58A's..... this is due to the new transformers in the Beta 58A's that could handle the 3 way split better, the Beta 58A's did not loose the top end.

Shure is an amazing company that has hundred's of people that are constantly keeping up with whats changing and moving with the times as well as preserving their heritage............if you look at the Shure website, you'll find TONS of great microphone history and information.........its an amazing resource of knowledge.

or Just call them and ask tech support........ they will be happy to help you.

P.S.- if you are going to split the mic signal ever, i'd put in the transformer. The Tab transformer is pretty darn good as well....... although if i had to choose, i'd choose all 3......... because once you know, you want them all.

This is the link for the Shure site explaining transformers:
Find an Answer

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

They were older ones...... i have new & old, i listened to them and they sounded pretty much the same.

Shure has changed the transformers over the years in their mics to be more compatible with the newer gear and the way that people have changed the way they use mics now.
There is much more mic splitting these days with TV and concert setups and even recording, so loading could get bad in old mics if you were splitting them 3 ways +, so Shure has changed transformers in later lines to address that issue.

I would not see that change as a bad thing....... but listen to your mic's and see what you like.

I did notice that my older Beta 58s did not sound as good in concert as Beta 58A's..... this is due to the new transformers in the Beta 58A's that could handle the 3 way split better, the Beta 58A's did not loose the top end.

Shure is an amazing company that has hundred's of people that are constantly keeping up with whats changing and moving with the times as well as preserving their heritage............if you look at the Shure website, you'll find TONS of great microphone history and information.........its an amazing resource of knowledge.

or Just call them and ask tech support........ they will be happy to help you.

P.S.- if you are going to split the mic signal ever, i'd put in the transformer. The Tab transformer is pretty darn good as well....... although if i had to choose, i'd choose all 3......... because once you know, you want them all.

This is the link for the Shure site explaining transformers:
Find an Answer

So are the ones in your test ALL unidyne III's???

[PMoshay]

im not exactly sure of their birthdate. Why would that matter? Do you have information that you are holding back from us???? The mics were not new.
Please enlighten us......

Here are many answers from Shure on the SM57's over the years.

SM57 Shure answers 1

SM57 Shure answers 2

SM57 Shure answers 3

SM57 Shure Answers 4

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

im not exactly sure of their birthdate. Why would that matter? Do you have information that you are holding back from us???? The mics were not new.
Please enlighten us......

Here are many answers from Shure on the SM57's over the years.

SM57 Shure answers 1

SM57 Shure answers 2

SM57 Shure answers 3

SM57 Shure Answers 4

Look on the microphones. Do they say "Made in USA patented" or "Unidyne III" or does it just say "Shure SM57"?
Some folks here say there is a difference:
SM57 Mexican VS. American made?
And a quote from Jim Williams:
"are you comparing these to Unidyne III's or the new Mexican 57's? There is a difference there as well."
Just wondering which ones you are using so I can get the full picture.

[PMoshay]

thats interesting, i listened to all 8 of mine before i modded them to see if one sounded better than another and heard no real difference...........don't know what Jim Williams was listening to though............ i even have an old SM56 with the high/low control.

Look at the answers from Shure
Someone should post some samples of Unidyne's vs SM57's so we could hear the difference, but we would probably be listening to the differences of aging mics, which is a cold hard reality of time.......i'm curious what he heard the major difference was and how old the mics he compared were (and what he like vs dislikes).

Jim also says you should never stick a mic 1"-2" away from a speaker as it won't capture the full sonic balance, that means alot of recordings out there don't have the full spectrum of the guitar tone.

as with any piece of analog gear, especially mics, time will change the sound..... maybe for the better.
Like i said before, my mics were not new.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

thats interesting, i listened to all 8 of mine before i modded them to see if one sounded better than another and heard no real difference...........don't know what Jim Williams was listening to though............ i even have an old SM56 with the high/low control.

Look at the answers from Shure
Someone should post some samples of Unidyne's vs SM57's so we could hear the difference, but we would probably be listening to the differences of aging mics, which is a cold hard reality of time.......i'm curious what he heard the major difference was and how old the mics he compared were (and what he like vs dislikes).

Jim also says you should never stick a mic 1"-2" away from a speaker as it won't capture the full sonic balance, that means alot of recordings out there don't have the full spectrum of the guitar tone.

as with any piece of analog gear, especially mics, time will change the sound..... maybe for the better

I can appreciate your opinion but for those that think differently I will ask one last time (where is a head scratching smiley when you need one): What does it say on each of the microphones?

[PMoshay]

I'll post recordings of both types and you can choose which is which.
i'm interested if you can hear the difference....... i'm scratching my head too

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

I'll post recordings of both types and you can choose which is which.
i'm interested if you can hear the difference....... i'm scratching my head too

OK, I get it. You have decided what is relevant for others to know and what is not. Buh Bye.

[PMoshay]

I guess you should do your own testing then.
as i mentioned before, i have 8 - SM57's old and new..........we listened to them beforehand and they sounded the same............ what don't you understand about that?
Had we noticed a difference in them, i would have put that in the test.

If you want me or someone to say that my old Unidyne SM57's sounded much better than the newer ones...... then they will have to show me an example of that, but we heard NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.

This isn't a conspiricy? They sounded the same..... new and old, i'm not sure how much clearer than that i can be. That is also why i provided a video showing everyone how the test were done as we were testing the mics........ who else does that?

If Mr. Williams has uncovered a Shure coverup about their mics over the years, he should share some examples with us. I'm positive everyone would love to hear it.

[Edi Konfetti]

Excellent shoot out! I really enjoyed watching the video and hearing the samples afterwards.

[travisinhell]

very nice comparison. both modded 57s were an improvement on the dirty guitars over the stock 57, imo. i had no preference on the other clips. the video was a nice touch and saved a windy post.

[rghose]

Thanks for the excellent shootout Peter! Well done!

My favorite all around was the TAB transformer version. It actually sounded very similar to the transformerless. Kudos must go to Oliver for making such an amazing transformer that it could be that transparent.

However, I generally felt a better sensation of "depth" with the TAB transformer. It's hard to explain but I felt I was hearing more information in the TAB transformer version than in the transformer less. You would think you would hear more info in the transformerless version as there is one less component in the signal path. My guess would be that the transformer is providing a better impedance match with the preamp, which of course is one of the functions of a good transformer. I can't back that up though.....just a guess to explain what I was hearing.

Thanks again Peter!

[Audio Hombre]

thanks. very enlightening. i only listened to the e guitar samples as these were the only relevant comparisons in situations i would use a 57.

first thing that struck me was how the stock 57 sounded like ass compared to both modded mics and this was just in headphones. i think if it came to a dense mix, the stock still might still serve a purpose but i loved how both mods removed a lot of that brash mid scratch and honk. the increased low end response was quite unexpected.

[Baz]

Interesting test and accompanying video.

Funny thing is, even though the SM57 is a well established mic for several applications, ever since I've been using my SM59 on guitars, I haven't reached for the SM57 since. The SM7, yes, but not 57. The 59 just doesn't have that hump on it the 57 does, is very flat for a dynamic, and has a nice natural roll off on the high end.

I'm tempted to pull the tranny on my 57 but I didn't have any luck finding instructions on how to do it online.

[JoeyM]

Hey by the way, what is the best way to interface a newly transformerless SM57?

Run it into a high impedance preamp? I have is a Fireface 800 which has a (IMO) nice HiZ input.

Somewhere down the road I'll sacrifice a new 57s transformer but in the meantime I don't know how to run it proper or for that matter should I still use the XLR jack on the mic wired to the right pins or glue in a guitar jack to the former mic jack?

Are there directions anyone knows on the web for this mod for DIY'ers who are familiar with Murphey's Law?


Thanks in advance for sharing

[rghose]

Originally Posted by JoeyM

Hey by the way, what is the best way to interface a newly transformerless SM57?

Run it into a high impedance preamp? I have is a Fireface 800 which has a (IMO) nice HiZ input.

Somewhere down the road I'll sacrifice a new 57s transformer but in the meantime I don't know how to run it proper or for that matter should I still use the XLR jack on the mic wired to the right pins or glue in a guitar jack to the former mic jack?

Are there directions anyone knows on the web for this mod for DIY'ers who are familiar with Murphey's Law?


Thanks in advance for sharing

Hi Joey,

I posted my impedance question over at Klaus Heyne's forum and got an answer from Oliver Archut himself:

PSW Recording Forums: Klaus Heyne's Mic Lab => SM57 mod and impedance question

I think you might find his answer helpful. Basically, you need a very low impedance input, not a high impedance. I'm not even sure anyone makes a preamp with an input impedance that low (12-20 ohm). One of the reasons a transformer is used is to match the impedance of the microphone to the preamp input.

[JoeyM]

(12-20 ohm) Low Impendance, thanks a million Reuben, that was an epiphany

[Les]

Neat!

I have a big collection of old unidyne II, III, 315 ribbon, and 576.

A lot of them were bought at Shure employee sales. I was an engineer there. The unidynes I have IIIs were customs made by Ernie Seeler. He was the developer of the unidyne III/sm57/sm58.

These mics are quite old, but all sound very good. Even the 50+ year old uni IIs sound fine. These things last forever.

A couple of them are wired bypassing the transformer. This will work just fine into a regular 150 or 200 ohm pre input. Transformerless pres often are actually 1-2K dif. impedance anyway. It's ok to plug a lower impedance into a higher one...just the output will be low. The mic self noise will be a bit better (lower) too. Low output sure is not an issue micing a guitar cab!

BTW the 576 is a fabulous dynamic mic. It's 50 or 200 ohms. It's a long pencil thing with a very small diaphragm. The response is unusually smooth and extended...it's better than many small diaphragm condensers!
It was designed for tv and recording use. If you see one grab it! I have 5.
I had to promise not to ever sell any of these though, because they are experimental prototypes from the lab.

The 545/sm of course has a resonator to tailor a nice mid range peak.

Les

[thefunkybeat]

Hey, I haven't checked out the wiring for this mod yet, but would removing the transformer from an SM57 make it dangerous to apply phantom power to the mic? I'm not sure.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by thefunkybeat

Hey, I haven't checked out the wiring for this mod yet, but would removing the transformer from an SM57 make it dangerous to apply phantom power to the mic? I'm not sure.

You'll blow the capsule...........

[thefunkybeat]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

You'll blow the capsule...........

Yeah, that sounds bad...

[Les]

I can answer that.

If the capsule's two wires are properly wired to XLR pin 2 and 3 there will be no damage. Even without the transformer you are still operating balanced. I routinely do this.

Now , if there ever were a short in the cable or something between pin 2 and 3 and pin 1...a dynamic mic would get fried, transformer or not.

So no danger, but you must take care to wire properly. Neither of the two capsule wires can go to pin 1 or ground, ever.

More here:

Shure - Phantom Power and Bias Voltage: Is There A Difference?

Les