Impromptu SDC Shootout ( Including KM69 )

[Jam]

Hi

Unity Audio were kind enough to send me down a M-A KM69 to play with. I was eager to hear it in comparison to my Nuemann KM184. So my good friend Kev and I decided to do an impromptu shout out.

The mics on test were the aforementioned KM69 and KM184. Kev kindly added his Sennhesier 416, AKG 451 and 460. We rigged all five mics so they were equidistant from the sound hole of Kev's Takamine, effectively they were all equally compromised as it's hard to get five mics in their optimum position. We used a Focusrite Octopre so we had the same pre for each mic.

The usual caveats apply. This is what these mics sounded like in this room, with this guitar and in the hands of this engineer.

I'll keep the identities of the mics to myself for now as that always throws up interesting thoughts.

The results were not exactly what I expected !! But fascinating none the less.

I've posted them as mp3s here ( encoded using the Lame codec with Snapper ) but the zipped the wavs are on my website.

SDC_Mic_Test

Methodology

Please note this shootout was not scientific. It was more representative of how I'd choose the appropriate mic for an instrument in an average session. For super scientific shootouts I would suggest 3D Audio.

Five small diaphragm condenser mics were used to record a Takamine acoustic guitar. In alphabetical order they were AKG 451, AKG 460, Mercenary Audio KM69, Nuemann KM184 and a Sennheiser 416 ( all cardioid )

All five mics were recorded at one time to ensure consistency and avoid variation between takes. The mics were positioned pointing at the sound hole at an approximate distance of six inches.

All microphones were connected to a Focusrite Octopre with the gains matched by eye. A/D conversion was courtesy of an Apogee Rosetta 800 internally clocked. The files were recorded to Logic Pro with no additional processing. I edited and faded the audio files in Logic and took the opportunity to use Sonalksis' Free G to match the volume more accurately.

Files were then bounced as 24bit Wavs. No eq, compression or reverb was applied.
A big thanks to Kev Amos who kindly played the guitar and let me use his studio. He also contributed the AKG and Sennheiser mics.
Kev Bent at Unity Audio supplied the KM69 and the Nuemann 184 is mine.

Hope you enjoy.

James

[Jam]

More

[lakeshorephatty]

Thanks for doing this James!

How do we find out the results??

Russell

[Jam]

Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty

Thanks for doing this James!

How do we find out the results??

Russell

Hi Russell

I'll leave it a few days to let speculation ensue. Then I'll post 'em.

I hope you find them useful.

James

[lakeshorephatty]

from what i can hear on shitty phones here at work

5
2
3

didn't like 4 or 1.

i'm wondering what 5 is.. and which one is a km184, because i used to own two, now i'm sdc'less..

care to pm me? : )

[not_so_new]

First off, thanks for posting this... very cool.



So I don't know which is which but I don't like "three strum." My guess is that "three strum" is the KM184, it just has that hard sound that I never liked from the 184. That is the reason I sold my pair.

Of course that could be mic position and such but three is my least favorite here.

One strum has a little something in the mids I don't dig, it is a little scooped and phase'y. It's not like three, one strum does not have hyped high mids but it is missing something in the center that I don't love. It just feels.. well.... like a cheap SDC to me. Again mic position could have a lot to do with that.

Two, four and five are probably my favorites but I think two strum and five strum are my picks for this recording with two having the slight edge because it has a little more depth.

Thanks again, good stuff..

[not_so_new]

And it looks like lakeshorephatty and I posted at the same time. We agree on 5 and 2, they are neck and neck for me for sure.

[SaxJordan]

These are fun. This is my guess:

#1) Mercenary Audio KM69
#2) AKG 460
#3) Nuemann KM184
#4) AKG 451
#5) Sennhesier 416

[lpkyer]

My favorites:

FINGER

OK
3
2
1

didnt like
5
4



STRUM

OK
2
5

didnt like
4
3
1

[nighttrainpete]

I dig 5 for strumming, most certainly. 3 for finger picking (liked the top-end, but disliked it for the strumming).

Results!?!?!

[Mike Derrick]

I liked 3 the most both finger and strum, and 2 next.

[lpkyer]

results !!

[lpkyer]

[SaxJordan]

Originally Posted by lpkyer

results !!

please

[PeterSturm]

My guess is:

1. Mercenery KM69 (or 3)
2. Sennheiser 416
3. Nuemann KM184 (or 1)
4. AKG 451
5. AKG 460

To me 3 sounds best, 1 is a close seconds. 4 is really nice too.
5 is OK and I dislike 2.

[Jam]

The order is the same for the strum and pick.

1: Km69
2: Km184
3: Senn 416
4: Akg 451
5: Akg 460

For what it's worth my thoughts

The Km69 provided a very "finished" sound. Almost like it's pre equalised I can understand why this would not be to everyone's taste but sounds to me like it would work really well in most modern pop/rock mixes.

The Km184 ( which I own so wanted very much to like ) sounds boxy in the mids and makes me want to start cutting with a decent eq each time I hear it. Maybe familiarity does breed contempt ?

The 416 was the surprise of the bunch, again it wouldn't be my choice for an upfront or solo acoustic but like the Km69 would work well in a dense mix with little eq.

I'd be happy to use the 451 in most situations and I'd be confident of getting a result.

The 460 was the only one I'd avoid.

What I learned from this shootout was to take other peoples opinions with shovels of salt !!

And that the Gearslutz mantra of get the gear in your room and try it yourself holds very very true.

I recorded some more files at my place on Saturday with just the 184 and the 69 running in to a pair of A-Designs P1s to my Apogees which I'll post when Gearslutz is up and running again.

I hope this was some use ?

But do yourself a favour and get a proper demo before you part with your cash !!

James

[lpkyer]

Well that confirms my love for Neumann haha

[Mike Derrick]

Grrrr, why do I often end up liking the expensive mics !!!

Thanks James.

If you start a new thread for the KM69 / KM184 samples, please post a link in this thread, thanks.

[drBill]

Which C451 did you use? The vintage E or EB? Or the current B?

Also, would have been great to have a vintage 84 in the group, as that is what the mercenary is shooting for. Thanks for doing this!! You get a big

Cheers,

bp

[Jam]

Hi DrBill

I'll find out about the AKG it wasn't mine and sloppily I didn't make notes.

I couldn't lay my hands on an original 84 ( unfortunately )

But I think Mercenary have said they want a 84 that had continued to be developed rather than a clone.

James

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Jam

Hi DrBill

I'll find out about the AKG it wasn't mine and sloppily I didn't make notes.

I couldn't lay my hands on an original 84 ( unfortunately )

But I think Mercenary have said they want a 84 that had continued to be developed rather than a clone.

James

Hey Jam!

if it (the 451) had a removable capsule, it was an older one. (they are less bright) If it was a "one piece" it was the newer B version.

I know Mercenary is "touting" the mic that way, but I think it's cause they couldn't match the real deal. Just my thoughts, but based on your shootout. Whenever a manufacturer can't get it right, they say that it's just like the old one - only better. Yeah, right. The 84 is a classic. Too bad you're not in LA, I'd loan you one of mine for the shootout! Thanks again,

bp

[Jam]

Hi Dr Bill

I dropped Kev - the owner - a mail and he said

"The AKG 451 is an EB . circa 1980's"

I've had the good fortune to use some great 84s in the past and the 69 struck me as brighter. However I know how unreliable sense memory is, so it would have been great to have an original in the mix.

James

[Kris]

I like 3 and 5 best.

[Jam]

I've just checked in quickly this morning but I'll post some KM69 vs KM184 through A-designs P1 to Apogee Rosetta files over the weekend.

Thanks for the interest.

James

[moothemagiccow]

I'd like to know what guitar was used in the strumming clips, because IMO they all sounded awful. 4 and 5 seemed to be the dullest, but they all had this grating sound I can only attribute to new strings on crappy guitars.

[Jam]

Originally Posted by moothemagiccow

I'd like to know what guitar was used in the strumming clips, because IMO they all sounded awful. 4 and 5 seemed to be the dullest, but they all had this grating sound I can only attribute to new strings on crappy guitars.

It's a Takamine.

James

[Jam]

I posted these files before but they were lost in the server cock up.

The methodology is here as are the zipped wavs.

SDC_Mic_Test_Two.

Here's a copy and paste from my website for those who don't make it over there.

Methodology

Please note this shootout was not scientific. It was more representative of how I'd choose the appropriate mic for an instrument in an average session. For super scientific shootouts I would suggest 3D Audio.

Two small diaphragm condenser mics were used to record a Lowden acoustic guitar. In alphabetical order they were a Mercenary Audio KM69 and a Nuemann KM184.

Both mics were recorded at one time to ensure consistency and avoid variation between takes. The mics were positioned pointing at the sound hole at an approximate distance of six inches.

Both microphones were connected to A-Designs P1s with the gains matched by eye. A/D conversion was courtesy of an Apogee Rosetta 200 internally clocked. The files were recorded to Logic Pro with no additional processing.

Files were then bounced as 24bit Wavs. No eq, compression or reverb was applied.

Kev Bent at Unity Audio supplied the KM69 and the Nuemann 184 is mine.

And here are the mp3s

I hope you find them useful.

James

[adamcal]

sitting here at home with headphones on (sony 7506) I like the KM184 better in the second test, the MA seems a little spiky or harsh, all the things that the KM184 is usually labeled with.

[adamcal]

are you sure you didnt label them in reverse, as a trick?

[monkeyxx]

strumming I pick the akg 450 for presence, and the KM184 for a little thicker or softer sound as perhaps the main rhythm guitar in a song

fingerpick I like the sennheiser and the KM69