Why no comparisons of low-end vs. high-end just to prove a point?

[Lunatique]

I've seen a lot of threads with audio clip comparisons of similarly priced products, but I don't think I've really seen comparison of drastically different price bracket products. I know there are people ready to upgrade some of their lower-end gear to the higher-end, but it's really hard to find some solid and compelling proof that their money will be well spent--short of actually spending that money to find out. I'd love it if there are actually comparison tests that show the actual difference between let's say the AD/DA on the average $300 audio interface vs dedicated AD/DA unit that cost over $1,000, or the stock preamps on some cheap mixer (Behringer for example) vs something much higher-end. We all know the expensive stuff is supposed to be better, and hearing comparison of different expensive stuff just shows us the difference between the expensive stuff, but without having the cheap stuff in there as well for comparison, it's really hard to have a point of reference.

[tbonebeats]

Id like to see this done too but it probably wont. Who would perform the test? It would have to be the high end guy because the Low end guy probably wont have the high end peice to compare.

And If the Highend guy did it and the low end peice won, would he admit it? no offence highend guys.

[travisbrown]

There's one going on here right now between a Behringer ADA8000 and a Lynx Aurora.

[John Suitcase]

Search around on here, there have been loads of comparisons. People often throw in a low-end piece just for fun when comparing high end stuff.

Typically, the difference is rather subtle on a single track, but can be enough to make a big difference on a project with a large number of tracks.

The low end gear around today is quite good. What you're getting with high-end gear is usually some desirable coloration, or lower noise and distortion, or much better build quality.

Converter's
Mic Preamp

Those are couple recent ones, there are tons on here...

[James Lehmann]

There are plenty of shoot-outs available here and elsewhere on the web that include budget and high-end gear. Some are specifically designed to test your point, Ethan Winer's infamous Soundblaster shoot-out comes to mind, but there are many others. Search is your friend.

[travisbrown]

Lynx Aurora 16 vs Behringer ADA8000

[Niv]

that upgrading madness has a strange religious point in it, living by hope and placebo, done by people whose music didn´t break it on the levels reached yet. what could help is the perspective from the top of that mountain, where you have your perfect studio, bigger than the country, but still tzhese poor poor loser tracks. that picture should be a warning all over just to cook with "bad" material as long as you can, consider that as "the real challenge of men".

the truth i found is one little step beyond that, and its a hated one by the marketing industries and slaves. it means it doesn´t matter at all, since the whole thing is all about a diversity not following clear specs. it means for some stuff you can´t have enough of the most awful, terrible and cheap gear in the world, and for the rest some average will do the rest for you since you are not a victim of the super polished clearance s/n-ratio bigness propganada. its capitalism, and its ****in dying soon. i hear the lousy wannabesnobbies ask, "and what about classical symphony? what about jazz?" especially these do sound best recorded analog in a dusty stinky garage on noisy tape.

[tbonebeats]

Originally Posted by Niv

that upgrading madness has a strange religious point in it, living by hope and placebo, done by people whose music didn´t break it on the levels reached yet. what could help is the perspective from the top of that mountain, where you have your perfect studio, bigger than the country, but still tzhese poor poor loser tracks. that picture should be a warning all over just to cook with "bad" material as long as you can, consider that as "the real challenge of men".

the truth i found is one little step beyond that, and its a hated one by the marketing industries and slaves. it means it doesn´t matter at all, since the whole thing is all about a diversity not following clear specs. it means for some stuff you can´t have enough of the most awful, terrible and cheap gear in the world, and for the rest some average will do the rest for you since you are not a victim of the super polished clearance s/n-ratio bigness propganada. its capitalism, and its ****in dying soon. i hear the lousy wannabesnobbies ask, "and what about classical symphony? what about jazz?" especially these do sound best recorded analog in a dusty stinky garage on noisy tape.

AMEN

[myrtlebacker]

Amen! Nevertheless... shopping for gear and finding good stuff is still fun.

[warhead]

n/a

War

[Audiop]

Check my latest mic "shoot out".


/Peter

[lucasmusic]

Mytek converter v.s. Digi 002 converter:A/B Test here!

this test i did sounds pretty drastic.

[Audiop]

I added a new test:

Converter loopback test


/Peter

[virtualsamana]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

Why no comparisons of low-end vs. high-end just to prove a point

Why prove a point with something as perfectly logical as a shootout when you can bullshit, insult everyone's intelligence, and end up with some reputable people never coming back to this board?

Someone wrote a perfect summary of what happens during blind shootouts between gear that is worshiped and reviled on this board. Here is my reproduction from memory:


1. Blind Gear Shootout posted between prosumer gear versus mucho moola holy grail piece of kit.
2. The most vocal prosumer gear bashers who claim even their grandmother can hear the difference between prosumer crap and holy grail magic box suddenly don't have time to participate even though they post 40 more times that day.
2. Half or more that do participate pick prosumer piece over holy grail.
3. OP posts results
4. Those who were unfortunate enough to chose prosumer piece complain that test is ineffective because of stacking theory -or- quality of the converters, cables or external clocks used to create the test files.
5. Those who didn't have time to participate before the results were revealed, now respond and all pick the expensive kit as sounding orgasmic and the prosumer piece sounding flat, lacking transient response, grainy and harsh.

[PMoshay]

Russ Long's DVD has a very good direct comparison of a recording done with high end gear vs a mackie w/ some 57's, etc.
He walks you thru the process in a detailed video and you get the files to listen to yourself and see.......... i don't think you could get a better example than his complete with video

[Audiop]

Virtualsamana,

thumbsup

At least you know who to ignore after their true color is showing.


/Peter

[audiovisceral]

Octava vs DPA vs Schoeps

[Lunatique]

Thanks for the links. After going through all these different shootouts (here and elsewhere on the internet), it's very apparent that with today's technology, even budget gear can give you excellent results if you have the talent, skill, and knowledge. Burning money on high-end gear is just splitting hair and makes not nearly as much of a difference as being good at what you do, which is compose, arrange, perform, record, mix, and master. For us home studio guys, it's really not necessarily to throw money away like that--it's far better to invest the money where it counts, like faster computer, new softwares, acoustic treatment...etc.

I do feel that when it comes to monitors, price usually does make a difference. I wish this wasn't the case and that budget monitors can sound as good as the high-end ones so we can all save money, but monitors seem to be one of the few things in the audio world where you most do get what you pay for.

[ABBA]

Ni hao Lunatique Xiaojie.

I agree with you regarding monitors.
If you, by total misstake, end up in Sweden one day,
I can show you an exception though.
Cheap and fantastic monitors. Made in Sweden.

I also agree with your statement about high-end gear.
In these discussions (preamps, converters etc) we are overexaggerating.
The differences are usually very small. Sometimes hardly audible at all.
Move the position of a microphone slightly and there will be
a huge difference in sound.
I think we all need some perspective here.
Well, I do anyway.

Zai jian.

ABBA

[dalachriser]

As ABBA said, if you wind up in Sweden for some reason, I could also show you some cheap and fantastic monitors. Made in Sweden

[Stolle]

Damnit! I live in Sweden and I haven't got a clue what monitors you speak of. Enlighten us! :D

[dalachriser]

Originally Posted by Stolle

Damnit! I live in Sweden and I haven't got a clue what monitors you speak of. Enlighten us! :D

I happen to love 2 brands of Swedish made monitors. Both models are passive.
The first one, that generally everyone loves, is Ino Audio. That´s the one ABBA probably also likes. It is something magical about that speaker... Ingvar Öhman (the man behind it) is something special.

The second one is a monitor you love, or hate.
I happen to be one of those who loves them, because it´s so damn revealing.

Having both of these is perfect for me. One as near field and the other as main.


I sold my ADAM P11 because of these monitors. And after listening to other ADAM´s, K&H and Emes, I couldn´t justify the € difference at all.

But as always in Gearslutz, and forums in general. Having 2 Swedes raving about monitors well below 1000€ that rivals monitors 2 or 3 times the price, will not ever be good for us 2 guys.
But I´ll take the heat this time.

[Michael_Joly]

Dr. Bill "madness" Pearson has several shootouts with a wide range of mics including this classic dust up.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

I've seen a lot of threads with audio clip comparisons of similarly priced products, but I don't think I've really seen comparison of drastically different price bracket products.

Originally Posted by dylansmale

I was about to tell you that there are tons of comparisons between low-end and high-end, when I stopped and though...wow, I don't think I have ever seen one!

How about a $22,000 Telefunken ELA M2541 side by side with a $100 SM 57?

A $4000 GT Vipre up against a $60 (per channel) Mackie preamp?

An $800 M-Audio Delta soundcard vs. an $8000 Prism standalone?

Those are just a few of the options that you can hear on the CDs I've produced. There are lists of the gear at the store [ osCommerce ] or you can download the files if you don't want to wait for the mail. 3D D2-Digital Downloads of Comparison Soundfiles - 3dB

I'm not trying to sell you anything. But comparisons like you want have been done.

I regularly hear comments from listeners who are shocked that they can either A) hear an astounding difference or B) hear no difference at all.

I'm a big believer in MJD--"monetarily justifiable difference." I have auditioned lots of things that I can hear differences between. But is it a $4000 difference? Enough difference to spend the money? That's what I'm talking about. It's sometimes easier to hear a MJD between a $100 and $400 mic than between a $1K and $15K mic.

Hope this helps on your quest.

[Michael_Joly]

I'm only half joking when I say that listening to Lynn's shoot-outs should be a prerequisite to Gearslutz membership ; )

Might cut down on the "it sucks ass bad" and "it rocks my world" gear reviews.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Lunatique

I've seen a lot of threads with audio clip comparisons of similarly priced products, but I don't think I've really seen comparison of drastically different price bracket products.

You're not looking hard enough :

$110 mic vs. U47, M49, modded mics, etc.
***Mic-Mod Madness!!!***

The most inexpensive ribbon I know of with inexpensive mods up against one of the all time classic ribbons :
Ribbon Madness....Some Comparisons

A host of inexpensive dynamics, condensers and ribbons up against some all time classic condensor / dynamics :
Drum Mic Madness!!!!

All within biting distance of you.

Log on, listen, and leave your comments with the other folks that listened.

cheers,

bp



Edit : HA!! I see Mad Poster Michael beat me to it.......

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by drBill

...
Edit : HA!! I see Mad Poster Michael beat me to it.......

They call me "thread pimp MJ" in these parts.