Toft ATB vs Trident 8T : audio samples

[Ciozzi]

Since this two boards are getting discussed a lot lately, I thought that posting some audio files would have been a good thing

As usual this is a non scientific test, even if I did my best to be precise!

The chain was: Rode NT5-->Console mic pre-->Motu 24I/O straight into cubase. No peak editing, no processing at all, I tried to record the takes so they were already balanced and "ready" to export.

At first I recorded the guitar at one feet from the point where the neck meets the body. Then I engaged the high shelf at 12K giving a boost of 6db on both consoles and re-recorded the tracks. Then I moved backward and recorded the last two samples at about three feet from the mic.

As for the snare, the mic was placed at about two feet over it aimed to the center. Regarding the voice, I had the singer at about one feet from the mic with a popper stopper on it to prevent annoying air blasts.

I think that's all... enjoy!

PS. I'm currently performing some tests on the eq's, I'll post the results soon.

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All the wav files from the tests are available at this adress:

Ciozzi - Bands

username: atbvs8t
password: atbvs8t

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[Ciozzi]

....and the other files...

[Ciozzi]

I almost forgot to say that when I recorded the acoustic guitar with the high shelf engaged, a band was having a reharsal in the tracking room (I was in the control room with the guitar) and you will hear some noise in the background.

If I can I'll repost those clips tomorrow!

[Ciozzi]

wow... one thousands threads about the ATB and none of you has anything to say about how it compares to the 8t ?

[Shabo]

thanks for the post, I'm definitely curious.. I'm also surprised no one has chimed in yet! I'm betwwen dsp services now so i'm using dial up but i'll listen to the clips as soon as the painfully slow finish..

[Backhousepro]

Thanks for posting these!

From a quick audition of the acoustic guitar sample, I'd say that console A has more presence and definition. I'll listen to all of them through my Genies when I get home from work.

Cheers,

-B-

[Dr Who]

As just said, i want to renew my thanks to you Luca for doing his best for taking the time to bring truth (sound) to our ears and to anyone minding about the "Buy" of the last months.

I did get the consoles right trough reading your advices and so this means you did describe them well also anly with words. I at the moment have no one of the consoles.

Maybe i soon will get one.

[jonaknt]

I preferred Console A. You could hear the biggest difference on the first guitar files.
The mid range sounded a lot better to me on A. Also, B had a weird low end "cheapness," to me.

But of course, everyone will have their own opinion.

Thanks for the shootout. I'm super interested in one of these two consoles. I'm looking forward to the results.

[Mitch Deason]

I like B
I'll guess that one is the Toft.

[everyday]

I prefer A...

Console B sounds like something smiley curve is going on...


However, I like both and I'd like to hear both 'in context...'


Thank you for the test...


T....

[charlesaustin]

I thought b was meatier. i prefered it.

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by charlesaustin

I thought b was meatier. i prefered it.

I thought B was more broad band (meatier) . but I think either can be made to sound like the other with what's on board. I don't think either lacks. Since I hear what is going on in B on mine, I own a Toft I will say B, and not to mention I am listening to PC speakers right now, not in my studio so it mau be all screwed up........yeah

[Ciozzi]

Cool, now it's getting interesting!

One thing's for sure, they sound really different on acoustic guitar. The sound was very position depending and I didn't spend much time searching for the sweet stop. In addition the strings were old and dull and the sound might radically change with new ones and a different placement.

I'll see what I can do to provide some more valid samples.

[Dirty Halo]

For ALL the controversy, the comments seem to show a general feeling that they are both good and close...

Who would have thought from THOUSANDS of emotional por/con posts on these two boards, which seem too close to even reliably tell the difference

-a

[lionheart]

Like some others have already said, i think "B" sounded a little warmer and fatter sounding.. i preferred B on this sound tests.. :-)

I could'nt actually hear that much difference on the vocal takes??!!

Nice work on putting out the samples dude:-)

[Ciozzi]

Ok, here we go with another test.

I took a stereo sample, sent it to both consoles, eq'd the tracks and recorded them back into cubase.

Before you make any judgements please consider a few things:

1) There's no way to match the eq on right and left channels (no stereo mode available)

2) Even if both consoles have a nominal maximum boost/cut of 15 dB my ear suggests me that the two ranges are slightly different (actually console B seems to have 1-1.5 db more)

3) I didn't eq the track to make it sound better, but just to show the inherent behaviour that I think comes out clearly.

4) The volumes could be not perfectly matched...

PS. On the low-mid cut test, I turned the gain knob fully counterclocwise on both boards while on the hi shelf test I boosted until I reached the 4th notch (I guess it's approximately 12 dB).

Enjoy

[dlmorley]

I think I prefered B on guitar and vocals..

[Mitch Deason]

Think I'll stick to my opinion after listening to the EQ'd samples.

Slightly prefer B.

B was smoother to me on the high boost than A.

Was more difficult for me to discern a difference on the lo cut samples. Other than maybe a hair more "warmth" or as the others posted "meat" in the B sample.

I'll still guess B is the Toft due to the warmth. Had one for a few weeks and this is sort of the way I have percieved it - (but then again, I don't have a Trident to A/B it with)

[Ciozzi]

These are the last files... then I'll let you guess which is which..

I performed another test with the same song cutting a more reasonable amount.

[Ciozzi]

undeeeeer my umbreeeeellla ellaaaa..........!!!!

[Ciozzi]

ella ella ella ella EH EH EH EH

[NathanEldred]

For those of us who wouldn't use the preamps, and maybe not use the EQ's....Could you do some A/B samples of a multichannel rough mix with 1) Both boards being set to the same general gain structure (no EQ) and 2) the boards being pushed to a hotter level than good gain structure would dictate? I'd like to see how just their summing compares in addition to how each one handles extreme demands on their headroom.

[Ciozzi]

Very last thing....I leveled the peaks before exporting the files... but watch the volume anyways!

[jbjoubaud]

I find A cleaner and more precise than B wich I find a bit muddy. B has some kind of wierdness going, kind of like if you forgot some LF boost on the stereo bus. I like A the best !
Cool test.. thanks for taking the time.

Best

JB

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

For those of us who wouldn't use the preamps, and maybe not use the EQ's....Could you do some A/B samples of a multichannel rough mix with 1) Both boards being set to the same general gain structure (no EQ) and 2) the boards being pushed to a hotter level than good gain structure would dictate? I'd like to see how just their summing compares in addition to how each one handles extreme demands on their headroom.

Yep..That's what I wanna hear also. The mix buss!...

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

For those of us who wouldn't use the preamps, and maybe not use the EQ's....Could you do some A/B samples of a multichannel rough mix with 1) Both boards being set to the same general gain structure (no EQ) and 2) the boards being pushed to a hotter level than good gain structure would dictate? I'd like to see how just their summing compares in addition to how each one handles extreme demands on their headroom.

I could try but it's not that easy. The Rosetta's inputs freak out several dB's before than the 8T master output and I never tried if they can handle the Toft.

I've got a Pendulum PL2 at my disposal, I could use it to tame the signal before the AD with the limiter not engaged obviously. Is it a good idea ?

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by lionheart

Like some others have already said, i think "B" sounded a little warmer and fatter sounding.. i preferred B on this sound tests.. :-)

I could'nt actually hear that much difference on the vocal takes??!!

Nice work on putting out the samples dude:-)

without reading too far into thread, i have to agree. there's just more overall meat to the console B sounds imho. Couldn't really tell on the snare but on the acoustic and vocal it was quite obvious.

thanks very much for the test. it's a lot of work and very appreciated.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

without reading too far into thread, i have to agree. there's just more overall meat to the console B sounds imho. Couldn't really tell on the snare but on the acoustic and vocal it was quite obvious.

thanks very much for the test. it's a lot of work and very appreciated.

Actually I had fun performing the test and I was really curious myself to have them side by side to make a fair comparison... at this point... why not to share it ?

[leaper]

Luca..thx for this. interesting stuff. I prefer the weight that B seems to add and my memory tells me that it's the Toft. Hope i'm wrong..
Nothing like a mistake to remind us to stay awake!
I guess these posts mean that you have sorted out your original problem with the Toft? Praise the Lord!!
Danny

[dasoundjunkie]

First of all thanx for the tests! Now I'd really like to know which is which?